How to properly pronounce R's

ジェイムズ · 16 May 2016

Hello,

I am was going over the Hiragana alphabet today and I am getting confused with how to properly pronounce the R letters.

The sound packs that I have been using are one on an Anki deck + this page on here.
Hiragana | Learn Japanese

To me it sounds like some begin with different letters.

Toritoribe · 16 May 2016

Wikipedia has a detailed explanation.
/r/ is an apical postalveolar flap undefined for laterality. That is, it is specified as neither a central nor a lateral flap, but may vary between the two. It is similar to the Korean r. To an English speaker's ears, its pronunciation varies between a flapped d ([ɾ], as in American English buddy) and a flapped l [ɺ], sounding most like d before /i/ and /j/, most like l before /o/, and /a/, and most like a retracted flap [ɾ̠] before /e/. It is occasionally realized as a trill [r], especially when conveying a vulgar nuance in speech. The phenomenon is called rolled tongue (巻き舌 makijita) in Japanese, and is usually transcribed by repeating katakana ru, e.g. ガルルルル for a dog's growl. It is sometimes transcribed with an l–ɾ ligature, lɾ.
Japanese phonology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

ジェイムズ · 16 May 2016

Toritoribe said:
Wikipedia has a detailed explanation.
/r/ is an apical postalveolar flap undefined for laterality. That is, it is specified as neither a central nor a lateral flap, but may vary between the two. It is similar to the Korean r. To an English speaker's ears, its pronunciation varies between a flapped d ([ɾ], as in American English buddy) and a flapped l [ɺ], sounding most like d before /i/ and /j/, most like l before /o/, and /a/, and most like a retracted flap [ɾ̠] before /e/. It is occasionally realized as a trill [r], especially when conveying a vulgar nuance in speech. The phenomenon is called rolled tongue (巻き舌 makijita) in Japanese, and is usually transcribed by repeating katakana ru, e.g. ガルルルル for a dog's growl. It is sometimes transcribed with an l–ɾ ligature, lɾ.
Japanese phonology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So more or less like most languages that have a trill on some of the words, this is exactly the same?
If for example, I am unable to perfect this trill(tremble) would I still be understandable?

Also, thanks for the reply.

mdchachi · 16 May 2016

The point being that it is similar to English "d" when pronouncing things like "buddy" where the tongue is not right against the teeth. Ignore the part about trilling.

ジェイムズ · 16 May 2016

mdchachi said:
The point being that it is similar to English "d" when pronouncing things like "buddy" where the tongue is not right against the teeth. Ignore the part about trilling.

Hmm okay, I think I understand this. thanks for explaining. I will practice and look around for other examples.

Toritoribe · 16 May 2016

Toritoribe said:
It is occasionally realized as a trill [r], especially when conveying a vulgar nuance in speech.

This is the reason you can ignore it. Unlike in Spanish, trilled and untrilled /r/ are not separate phonemes in Japanese, i.e., they are recognized as the same word in either pronunciation.

Majestic · 16 May 2016

Trill your "r"s in Japanese and it sounds a bit, er, rough.

Lomaster · 23 May 2016

Majestic said:
Trill your "r"s in Japanese and it sounds a bit, er, rough.

Or a bit Italian.
although i like that version more for some reason
ZOMG ZUFALL! #1654

How to properly pronounce R's

ジェイムズ

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Toritoribe

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ジェイムズ

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mdchachi

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