How to learn intermediate Japanese

josquius · 24 Jun 2013

Hello. I've lurked for a while but only just decided to make an account.
I've been living in Japan for 2 years now and my language ability is nowhere near as good as it should be. I'm going to totally fail the JLPT N3 in a week or two- I should have signed up for the N4 but it is a pointless level and I thought I'd have had more time and study ability these past months...nope.
The internet seems to be full of advice for beginners (if I see another introduction to Japanese website....I swear....) and there's a fair bit of advanced level advice out there, it seems to be the middle which gets overlooked.
So...any advice from the more advanced folks for this mid-level. How do you get over it? Is there a decent way to study vocabulary that works (anki doesn't. )?

letianchen · 24 Jun 2013

Hello, I have studied japanese for around 8 months, and am probably a bit over the N3 range but definitely under N2 if we we're to use the JLPT scale. I usually score pretty high t on the N3 practise tests from the book I have. For reading, just keep reading stuff, for example I read alot of manga when I am bored, so if I get bored of reading more textbook type things I read manga which can be more funny, although its not as ideal it keeps you from getting bored, and I suppose you can pick up some slang and idiomatic terms.
Vocabulary for me anqi and listening to podcasts 10 times seem to work, I'm currently working through the advanced and advanced intermediate podcasts, they talk about things like someone going to the hospital because he is bipolar, buisness japanese etc. So you will learn alot of words if you keep listening. I tried repeating stuff in my head over and over but it seems I just forget it after a while, it seems listening then reading actual text of what is being said works well for me.

if your JPLT 4 , the low intermediate or intermediate is probably for you. Unless you have really good listening that is

JapaneseRuleof7 · 24 Jun 2013

Read and Listen

I feel your pain. There isn't a great road map through the intermediate level. I've been studying Japanese for over 10 years, and have lived here going on six.

My general observation is that learning the language is a much, much longer road that I'd been led to believe. You need to build a really huge vocabulary to handle all the situations that we encounter on a daily basis in this country. If you're not already, make sure everything you're reading includes the kanji. Furigana is fine, but you've got to have that kanji as well.

Some things I've done that have helped:

1. Reading NHK News Easy using the RikaiChan plug-in for Firefox. The articles are short and they have audio. I really (really!) believe reading with audio is helpful. Read it first once without audio, then once with.

2. Get a book of vocab with example sentences plus audio. Read the sentences first and look up any words you don't know. Then listen the hell out of the audio track, maybe like a dozen times throughout the day. By the end of the day, you'll have about 10 or 15 new words of vocab. I also anki two or three sentences, but I understand if Anki doesn't work for you.

3. Watch movies with Japanese subtitles. If the plot of the movie isn't fairly clear, then watch it once with English subtitles to make sure you know what the hell's going on. Then watch it again with the Japanese.

4. Read parallel texts. Read them once in English while listening to the Japanese, which ensures you understand the content. Then again, reading and listening to the Japanese. You can probably detect a theme in all four of these suggestions.

Hope that helps!

Ken Seeroi

letianchen · 24 Jun 2013

Hi JapaneseRule, your tips were really cool. As someone who has been learning for so long do you think listening to japanese movies with the japanese subtitles help? I mean the objective at the end of the day is to be able to recognize the word in a movie, or any listening things.
Although I am relatively new only 8 months, I feel like its very hard practising listening ,simply because I can't keep up with the pace alot of times, and if I get stuck on one word im always thinking about that word, and then bam they are already two sentences after. Just wanted to know if you had tips on listening. My grammar and reading/writing are going rather well, but listening for me is hard.

JapaneseRuleof7 · 25 Jun 2013

Yeah, that's a great question.

Listening, I think, is always a bit hard. Like, have you ever had trouble understanding someone from your own country? I have, plenty of times, whether it's an unusual accent or background noise or the person's not stating things clearly. Or maybe it's me and my mind's on vacation. Whatever. So what I mean is that I can go all week speaking nothing but Japanese at 100% comprehension, and then meet some random dude and not know what the hell he's saying. Like I spent last weekend with a bunch of farmers out in the country and probably understood 10 percent of what they were saying unless they specifically used standard Japanese for me. But then I've had similar experiences in the U.S. as well.

And I'll add this: listening also strange. You can go a long, long time and not know what the train announcements mean, and then one day, bam! you just understand them. I don't know why. You just somehow get used to the sound and then it makes sense. Of course, you have to know the words, but beyond that, you have to be able to assemble the sounds into something understandable. And that takes exposure.

So that's my roundabout way of getting to the point of saying, yes, watching subtitled movies helps, but . . . it doesn't help right away. It takes time. But as you continue studying, you'll notice you graaaaadually understand more and more of the dialog in movies (as well as other media).

I wouldn't make movies my main study method, but neither would I delay listening to them for too long, since they provide valuable, realistic dialog in context. Of course, you should probably pick movies with simple themes: love stories, household dramas, not some detective story with a complex plot and technical script.

So that's my long answer

Ken

letianchen · 25 Jun 2013

JapaneseRuleof7 said:
Yeah, that's a great question.

Listening, I think, is always a bit hard. Like, have you ever had trouble understanding someone from your own country? I have, plenty of times, whether it's an unusual accent or background noise or the person's not stating things clearly. Or maybe it's me and my mind's on vacation. Whatever. So what I mean is that I can go all week speaking nothing but Japanese at 100% comprehension, and then meet some random dude and not know what the hell he's saying. Like I spent last weekend with a bunch of farmers out in the country and probably understood 10 percent of what they were saying unless they specifically used standard Japanese for me. But then I've had similar experiences in the U.S. as well.

And I'll add this: listening also strange. You can go a long, long time and not know what the train announcements mean, and then one day, bam! you just understand them. I don't know why. You just somehow get used to the sound and then it makes sense. Of course, you have to know the words, but beyond that, you have to be able to assemble the sounds into something understandable. And that takes exposure.

So that's my roundabout way of getting to the point of saying, yes, watching subtitled movies helps, but . . . it doesn't help right away. It takes time. But as you continue studying, you'll notice you graaaaadually understand more and more of the dialog in movies (as well as other media).

I wouldn't make movies my main study method, but neither would I delay listening to them for too long, since they provide valuable, realistic dialog in context. Of course, you should probably pick movies with simple themes: love stories, household dramas, not some detective story with a complex plot and technical script.

So that's my long answer

Ken

Wow that is a nice comparison Ken! I know what you mean, there are different types of english people use, and some are much more distinguishable not others, which is definitely true! In your experience, how long was it before you could understand atleast a large portion of media entertainment, say for example a tv drama show? Or something like cartoon anime? Do you think its possible to be able to listen to one of these and actullay understand a majority of the concepts, without going to the actual country of Japan? At the end of the day, I'm doing it because it is a big hobby of mine, and I don't have too many plans yet of going to Japan or anything, but it would be good if one day my studies paid off, and I could achieve something like listening to a new show in a different language! Anyway I love your tips, thanks alot man!

JapaneseRuleof7 · 25 Jun 2013

I think it took me a long time, probably 3 to 5 years, although it happened gradually, so I don't know when exactly it happened that I felt comfortable watching something like a movie with a high level of comprehension.

The major obstacle is one of vocabulary acquisition. You really need a ton of words. I think if you focused on acquiring more vocabulary, and learning kanji, you could do it quicker than I did. The methods I outlined above should help.

pauro12 · 25 Jun 2013

JapaneseRuleof7 said:
I think it took me a long time, probably 3 to 5 years, although it happened gradually, so I don't know when exactly it happened that I felt comfortable watching something like a movie with a high level of comprehension.

The major obstacle is one of vocabulary acquisition. You really need a ton of words. I think if you focused on acquiring more vocabulary, and learning kanji, you could do it quicker than I did. The methods I outlined above should help.

Reading your experience makes me think that you haven't had any formal studies, but exposure.. Am I right？ So how many years do you think a beginner （about low average） would become intermediate if the only way of practicing is chatting along with natives or experts? Thanks!

JapaneseRuleof7 · 25 Jun 2013

I've actually had a fair bit of formal training: 3 semesters in college (after placing out of the introductory course), about a year with private tutors, then 2 language institutes in Japan, part-time, for a total of about a year and a half. In addition to that, I probably spent an hour and a half a day on my own, reading or using Anki. Of course, I also get a lot of exposure that I don't count as studying: watching TV, talking to people, and just freaking living here.

If you've read my site, you know I tell it pretty straight: it's going to take a bit of time. Don't set yourself up for failure by expecting quick gains or buy into some miracle method that promises you'll be fluent in like 18 months. Realize it's going to be a long road, but if you're down for it, you can get there.

Personally, I don't find chatting with people to be all that useful. I probably talk 20-30 hours a week with Japanese people, and it's a lot less beneficial than, say, reading a book. Just like in English, really. You can talk a long time without learning any new vocabulary. It is useful for reinforcing what you've learned, but it's a hard way to acquire new information, unless you're working with a tutor who is specifically introducing you to new words and grammar structures, then practicing them with you. For that reason, I think it's entirely possible to learn Japanese without ever coming to Japan. As a corollary, I have known a number of Japanese people who spoke great English without living abroad.

I'd also add that it depends upon your life situation. If you live in Japan and work 10 hours a day (a distinct possibility in this country), you're going to have little time to study Japanese. On the other hand, if you have a cool situation in your home country where you can study four hours a day, you might actually learn Japanese faster.

Ken Seeroi

pauro12 · 25 Jun 2013

JapaneseRuleof7 said:
I've actually had a fair bit of formal training: 3 semesters in college (after placing out of the introductory course), about a year with private tutors, then 2 language institutes in Japan, part-time, for a total of about a year and a half. In addition to that, I probably spent an hour and a half a day on my own, reading or using Anki. Of course, I also get a lot of exposure that I don't count as studying: watching TV, talking to people, and just freaking living here.

If you've read my site, you know I tell it pretty straight: it's going to take a bit of time. Don't set yourself up for failure by expecting quick gains or buy into some miracle method that promises you'll be fluent in like 18 months. Realize it's going to be a long road, but if you're down for it, you can get there.

Personally, I don't find chatting with people to be all that useful. I probably talk 20-30 hours a week with Japanese people, and it's a lot less beneficial than, say, reading a book. Just like in English, really. You can talk a long time without learning any new vocabulary. It is useful for reinforcing what you've learned, but it's a hard way to acquire new information, unless you're working with a tutor who is specifically introducing you to new words and grammar structures, then practicing them with you. For that reason, I think it's entirely possible to learn Japanese without ever coming to Japan. As a corollary, I have known a number of Japanese people who spoke great English without living abroad.

I'd also add that it depends upon your life situation. If you live in Japan and work 10 hours a day (a distinct possibility in this country), you're going to have little time to study Japanese. On the other hand, if you have a cool situation in your home country where you can study four hours a day, you might actually learn Japanese faster.

Ken Seeroi

Thank you so much for the effort of giving me the reply... So what I'am doing weren't really that effective at all, but is I guess not bad based on my situation.. I'm too busy and I don't have the luxury for schooling.. So if you don't mind, give me some advice based on the given situation that I'am in? Less time and no money? But I could maybe at least give 3 - 4 hours a day studying the language, though...

JapaneseRuleof7 · 26 Jun 2013

Well, I certainly think any learning you do is good, so if you can talk to people, then do that. Also, bear in mind that different things work for different stages in your learning. For a beginner, conversation is often a good thing. As you go further up, though, it tends to repeat the same topics too often, and the amount of new information you learn levels off.

Also, different people learn in different ways, so I caution people not to listen too much to the advice of others, including my own. I try to set out a reasonable road map, but if it doesn't jibe with your style, then by all means try something else.

Beyond that, for advice, I'd have to refer you to my previous post (Read and Listen). That's been very effective for me, and I believe it would work pretty well for most people.

Best,

Ken Seeroi

pauro12 · 26 Jun 2013

JapaneseRuleof7 said:
Well, I certainly think any learning you do is good, so if you can talk to people, then do that. Also, bear in mind that different things work for different stages in your learning. For a beginner, conversation is often a good thing. As you go further up, though, it tends to repeat the same topics too often, and the amount of new information you learn levels off.

Also, different people learn in different ways, so I caution people not to listen too much to the advice of others, including my own. I try to set out a reasonable road map, but if it doesn't jibe with your style, then by all means try something else.

Beyond that, for advice, I'd have to refer you to my previous post (Read and Listen). That's been very effective for me, and I believe it would work pretty well for most people.

Best,

Ken Seeroi

Yes you're right, I kind of think that I'm not learning anymore as conversations tends to be repeating.. By the way, your name sounds like I've heard somewhere, a blog? xD I guess it was a blog.. Can you please give me a link again of that Read And Listen of yours? And what's the url again for the blog? I'm gonna read it once again, as I might find some good stuffs over there.. Thanks!

How to learn intermediate Japanese

josquius

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letianchen

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JapaneseRuleof7

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letianchen

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JapaneseRuleof7

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letianchen

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JapaneseRuleof7

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pauro12

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JapaneseRuleof7

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pauro12

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JapaneseRuleof7

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pauro12

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