how foreigners see Japanese culture

they can't express themselves as freely as we do in the west

I dont know what you mean....

expression ..something like wothout respect words?

please explain.
you should express it freely here

caster51 said:

they can't express themselves as freely as we do in the west

I dont know what you mean....

expression ..something like wothout respect words?

please explain.
you should express it freely here

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It's the Harmony they have in Japan the 窶堙? Because of this you can't always express yourself as you can in certain western countries.

Example: A business meeting, everyone agrees on giving 3% of their budget to the company, but you only want to give away 1%. You want to say this, but you can't because you will break the harmony with it, the 窶堙?

In certain western countries, people are more able to say their opinion and tell their boss, no I do not agree with 3%.

The Harmony in Japan, the 窶堙? has it good parts and it bad parts.

(I hope that I explained this right)

A business meeting, everyone agrees on giving 3% of their budget to the company, but you only want to give away 1%. You want to say this, but you can't because you will break the harmony with it,

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The thing that the compromise and the expression are not done is quite
different.

In certain western countries, people are more able to say their opinion and tell their boss, no I do not agree with 3%.

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In bussiness wolrd, there is no such stupid japanese.
It is the worst subordinate.
However, if there is a rule or law,we would no do that.
Keeping harmony and " cant express " are a different problems.
If so, there is no reform...

There is a person who keeps silent because he doesn't want to make a trouble if something is decided by everyone.

caster51 said:

There is a person who keeps silent because he doesn't want to make a trouble if something is decided by everyone.

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So, if everyone decided to eradicate the Jews, those who speak up against it are causing trouble, eh? Therefore one should ALWAYS remain silent and never dare to oppose something if 'everyone' (read: those who are in power) decided it?
Sounds plausible...

So, if everyone decided to eradicate the Jews, those who speak up against it are causing trouble, eh? Therefore one should ALWAYS remain silent and never dare to oppose something if 'everyone' (read: those who are in power) decided it?

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Godwin's Law

Some say preserving social harmony, or "wa" as has been mentioned, is a throwback to when Japan was made up of small villages that had to rely upon themselves to survive. In order to ensure the continued cooperation of everyone in the village, they tried as best they could to preserve a cordial and friendly environment.

Modern Japanese society has as many divisive and controversial issues as any country. You are more likely to see strong, specific positions taken regarding something like war than something like where to eat for dinner.

mika_r said:

well, here in chile we don't know very much about asian culture, specialy older people. older people think that japan is a super cybernetic country, that porn is everywhere (as a catholic country they found all things related to sex bad.) and often they think that japan and china is the same thing. so when they say "this chinese guy" they are talking about all asian-kind-of-look.
but people that do know about japan they admire japanese culture but they arent very in to it.
there is also the otaku* group and they found all japanese related stuff super duper kawaii. they admire japan and they want to be japanese. this group is badly seen by society in chile
*chilean otaku: is every guy that reads manga.

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Yeah, I used to think it was a super cybernetic country, too.
I get mad when people say oh, this Chinese, when in fact, he/she might be Korean, Filipino, Japanese, among others. But then again, I think, many people just don't care about this culture.

Mauricio

MeAndroo said:

Godwin's Law

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Godwin's law, eh? Well, at least I've learned something new 'cause I've never heard of that before.
So, if mentioning the Nazis isn't appropriate, shall I mention the Khmer Rouge intead? Or is it inappropriate to mention any such thing?
Or should I just shut up? (You know, like not causing trouble)

if everyone decided to eradicate the Jews, those who speak up against it are causing trouble, eh? Therefore one should ALWAYS remain silent and never dare to oppose something if 'everyone' (read: those who are in power) decided it?
Sounds plausible

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at first, your guestion is absurd☝

caster51 said:

at first, your guestion is absurd☝

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No, at first it is rhetorical. At second it is exaggerated.
The exaggeration serves a purpose. To show that the concept of harmony how you described it ("There is a person who keeps silent because he doesn't want to make a trouble if something is decided by everyone.") bears some real danger. It's like pointing out when someone throws his or her garbage into nature. Of course that one little piece of rubbish won't kill the world, but if everybody thinks so things look quite different.

No, at first it is rhetorical. At second it is exaggerated.
The exaggeration serves a purpose. To show that the concept of harmony how you described it ("There is a person who keeps silent because he doesn't want to make a trouble if something is decided by everyone.") bears some real danger. It's like pointing out when someone throws his or her garbage into nature. Of course that one little piece of rubbish won't kill the world, but if everybody thinks so things look quite different

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before that, we need a disscussion about that.
someone can complain...
naturaly there is an the opposed power.
then something is decided by everyone.☝

If it is a new law, it follows it.

In that case, I'm fine with it.

In that case, I'm fine with it.

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the most important thing is make all happy.

The individual might be not made happy.

Dutch Baka said:

It's the Harmony they have in Japan the 窶堙?

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Ack! Its 窶堙ｭ, or the ﾋ彗
Go hop into the Japanese study forums and ask about when to call 窶堙 ha and wa. Huuuge difference.

caster51 said:

In bussiness wolrd, there is no such stupid japanese.
It is the worst subordinate.
However, if there is a rule or law,we would no do that.
Keeping harmony and " cant express " are a different problems.
If so, there is no reform...

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The exact point given is one of the reasons why Japan is in such deep financial trouble, with almost all of its major companies in serious debt, banks are in debt, every single prefecture is in debt, and the country as a whole is in debt. For some reason Japan is on a suicidal course and will not stop.
Comes down to deeply ingrained ideas of the sempai/kohai system, and tatemae/honne.
Firstly, kohai do not speak out against sempai - the guy in charge gets his way, and nobody ever disagrees.
Even if they do not agree they will not vocally express there true opinion (called honne) but just go with the flow of the group and express tatemae.
Its not just little things like human relations that see the use of tatemae/honne thinking, things as important as the national budget (of which over half is spent on unrecorded off the record projects), level of company and national debt (tatemae being an "optimistic" number, the true honne number being held in secret).

Dr. J. M. said:

It's like pointing out when someone throws his or her garbage into nature. Of course that one little piece of rubbish won't kill the world, but if everybody thinks so things look quite different.

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Slightly related - but industrial waste control is a huge issue in Japan. It is poorly regulated and there are plenty stories in the tabloids about industry dumping 1000's of tonnes of waste, much of it highly dangerous, and of the fskups of the government and agencies in charge of cleaning it up.
Simply put, waste management is expensive for companies, and being mainly unregulated, its been the modus operandi for years that companies dump their waste without making a fuss (for free) and everything is OK. Then for the prefectures and landowners whose responsibility it is to take care of the waste and dispose of it correctly it costs lots and lots of money, money they could be using building useless roads and museums, so they really don't care either.
Just look up the dioxin fiasco to get an idea of how high environmental issues that have human impact are on the governmental scale of things.

Can I get a delete on this one?

Ewok85 said:

Slightly related - but industrial waste control is a huge issue in Japan. It is poorly regulated and there are plenty stories in the tabloids about industry dumping 1000's of tonnes of waste, much of it highly dangerous, and of the fskups of the government and agencies in charge of cleaning it up.
Simply put, waste management is expensive for companies, and being mainly unregulated, its been the modus operandi for years that companies dump their waste without making a fuss (for free) and everything is OK. Then for the prefectures and landowners whose responsibility it is to take care of the waste and dispose of it correctly it costs lots and lots of money, money they could be using building useless roads and museums, so they really don't care either.
Just look up the dioxin fiasco to get an idea of how high environmental issues that have human impact are on the governmental scale of things.

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Very informative, I didn't know that! How informative a little analogy can prove to be...

caster51 said:

they can't express themselves as freely as we do in the west
I dont know what you mean....
expression ..something like wothout respect words?
please explain.
you should express it freely here

Click to expand...

They aren't allowed to express themselves in all areas they come into. They can do it with their friends, and at a bar when they have a few drinks in them and they can express themselves with their lover, but in school while growing up they are told to "stay in line" Thus setting them up for a fall when the time does come for them to express themselves.