How do I open the window?

[paper]

If I want to say "how do I open the window?" are these correct?
窓をどう開けるんですか
どうすると窓を開けるんですか

And do these mean "how does the window open?"
窓はどう開くんですか
どうすると窓が開くんですか

 

[Glenn]

Hmm, I think that sentences 1a and 2a are more correct than 1b and 2b. I would say that the former are fine, but I'm not sure how Japanese people would say it.

 

[paper]

ok, thanks Glenn!

 

[Elizabeth]

There may be way to use "dou shimasu" in these sentences (lit: what should I do to open the window), but 'dou suru to' looks strange to me as well. Also I'm thinking
douyatte is probably better than just dou for something like this involving the mechanics of actually operating/carrying out a function.

 

[paper]

Thanks Elizabeth! I saw examples of どうすると in the JFB textbook, but there was no translation, and I also don't remember seeing any explanation about どうすると. Here's one from the book:

どうすると開くんですか。
ボタンを押すと開きます。

Maybe I'm just not reading it correctly? :?

 

[Elizabeth]

Examples like that are most likely presented for their nice parallel construction of と開く more than a sampling of natural speech。どうすると as in 'if it's how/what' may be valid, but rare for sure. If you find any supporting examples from dictionaries, the internet, etc. let me know. I've come up pretty much empty so far myself.

 

[Glenn]

Thanks Elizabeth! I saw examples of どうすると in the JFB textbook, but there was no translation, and I also don't remember seeing any explanation about どうすると. Here's one from the book:

どうすると開くんですか。
ボタンを押すと開きます。

Maybe I'm just not reading it correctly? :?

Well, I've definitely seen the second one before. "If you push the button [the door] will open." So I guess the first one is valid, too. Literally, it is "if I do what will [the door] open?" From there we can get a grammatically close: "if I do what will [the door] open?" So a natural translation would be "what do I do to open [the door]?" or "what to I do to get [the door] to open?"

 

[Elizabeth]

If I want to say "how do I open the window?" are these correct?
窓をどう開けるんですか
どうすると窓を開けるんですか

And do these mean "how does the window open?"
窓はどう開くんですか
どうすると窓が開くんですか

I think dou suru to mado wo akerun desuka? is not correct in this situation.
Dou suru to is analogous to dou yattara, or "Wow! What is your secret?" "How come you can do that?" in response to a surprising or unexpected happening.

 

[NANGI]

Konnichiwa paper-san!

If I want to say "how do I open the window?" are these correct?
窓をどう開けるんですか
どうすると窓を開けるんですか

"窓をどう開けるんですか" is good, but "どうすると窓を開けるんですか" is not good.

Elizabeth already said, "どうやって窓を開けるんですか" is good.
But I think "どうやって窓を開けるのですか" is better.

And other ways "どうすると窓は開きますか" and "どうすれば窓は開きますか" are good too! In this case, the subject word is "窓" but not "わたし", and you can not use "開ける". Because "開ける" is used with person or personal pronoun.

"わたしが窓を開ける"
"なんぎが窓を開ける"

"どうすると<わたしは>窓を開けることができますか？" is good. But it means "How can I open the window?"

And do these mean "how does the window open?"
窓はどう開くんですか
どうすると窓が開くんですか

"窓はどう開くんですか" is good.
"どうすると窓が開くんですか" means "how do I open the window?".

NANGI

 

[paper]

Thank you!

 

[pacerier]

Konnichiwa paper-san!
"窓をどう開けるんですか" is good, but "どうすると窓を開けるんですか" is not good.

heys, sorry to interrupt. but why is it "<わたしは>どうすると窓を開けるんですか" not allowed?

 

[Elizabeth]

heys, sorry to interrupt. but why is it "<わたしは>どうすると窓を開けるんですか" not allowed?

I don't completely understand why わたしが/は どうやって窓は開けるんですか isn't acceptable, either. In the contrastive sense to distinguish the window from the door or refrig or curio or something.

But one correction to <わたしは>どうすると窓を開けるんですか"would be : (わたしが) どうやって窓を開けるんですか

 

[nhk9]

わたしが どうやって窓を開けるんですか is grammatically allowable, but the emphasis is on "watasi", which makes the sentence quite strange. It sounds like "as for me, how do I open the window", which may imply that there are different ways for different people to open the window.

I believe a typical native like sentence would be 窓はどう開くんですか.

There is a tendency for foreigners to (over)use transitive verbs when often native speakers may choose intransitive ones in similar situations. (eg. 見つける ｖｓ 見つかる）

 

[Elizabeth]

わたしが どうやって窓を開けるんですか is grammatically allowable, but the emphasis is on "watasi", which makes the sentence quite strange. It sounds like "as for me, how do I open the window", which may imply that there are different ways for different people to open the window.
I believe a typical native like sentence would be 窓はどう開くんですか.
There is a tendency for foreigners to (over)use transitive verbs when often native speakers may choose intransitive ones in similar situations. (eg. 見つける ｖｓ 見つかる）

The OP asked why you couldn't say わたしは>どうすると窓を開けるんですか and I adjusted it to わたしが どうやって窓を開けるんですか. Naturally you can leave off わたしが. Tori already made the other correction in another thread.

I agree that something like 窓はどう開く(の) is most natural. And it is the same in English. How does the window open ? is better than How do I open the window ?

 

[Toritoribe]

わたしがどうやって窓を開けるんですか sounds like a rhetorical question to me.

 

[tamagogohan]

If I want to say "how do I open the window?" are these correct?
窓をどう開けるんですか
どうすると窓を開けるんですか
And do these mean "how does the window open?"
窓はどう開くんですか
どうすると窓が開くんですか

どうやってこの窓を開けるんですか？
is the most natural form for the situation "How do I open the window?" I added この because it is weird that someone doesn't know how to open a window. It sounds like the speaker has no experience with windows. This window in the sentence must be something new to the speaker (i.e. maybe it is a new type of window). By adding この it indicates the specific window. If there is no demonstrative pronoun, the meaning can also translate as "How do I open windows?"
この窓はどう開くんですか？
will be the most natural form for "How does the window open?"
The former sentence sounds more polite than the later.

 

[pacerier]

hey thanks for the replies, much appreciated =)

 

[Elizabeth]

どうやってこの窓を開けるんですか？
is the most natural form for the situation "How do I open the window?" I added この because it is weird that someone doesn't know how to open a window. It sounds like the speaker has no experience with windows. This window in the sentence must be something new to the speaker (i.e. maybe it is a new type of window). By adding この it indicates the specific window. If there is no demonstrative pronoun, the meaning can also translate as "How do I open windows?"
この窓はどう開くんですか？
will be the most natural form for "How does the window open?"
The former sentence sounds more polite than the later.

How does the window open ? sounds basically like it is a question of opening from the inside or outside or someone who has tried and can't figure it out intuitively. It depends not on politeness but on what you need to know.

この窓 is a situation of standing in front of the window (This window). The window doesn't need a demonstrative pronoun in Japanese.

 

[tamagogohan]

How does the window open ? sounds basically like it is a question of opening from the inside or outside or someone who has tried and can't figure it out intuitively. It depends not on politeness but on what you need to know.

この窓 is a situation of standing in front of the window (This window). The window doesn't need a demonstrative pronoun in Japanese.

Thanks for the reply
What you are saying is correct but "The" can be translated as この, あの or その. Because in English, the phrase "How do I open the window?" can mean, "How do I open this/that window?" and I thought the second phrase is more natural.

Example 1
Paul went to his friend's house and he saw a strange window he never saw before. Then Paul asked his friend, "How do I open the window? どうやってこの（または、その、あの）窓を開けるの？ "

Example 2
Paul is a 3-year-old boy. He wanted to open a window, but he doesn't know how to because he never has, and he asked his mom, "How do I open a window? どうやって窓を開けるの？"

If you don't put a demonstrative, before window, whatever the situation it will sound like Example 2, where the speaker doesn't know how to open it. That is why I put the demonstrative there. Sorry I know this may not relate to the thread directly but I thought it was important.

 

[Elizabeth]

Thanks for the reply What you are saying is correct but "The" can be translated as この, あの or その. Because in English, the phrase "How do I open the window?" can mean, "How do I open this/that window?" and I thought the second phrase is more natural.
Example 1
Paul went to his friend's house and he saw a strange window he never saw before. Then Paul asked his friend, "How do I open the window? どうやってこの（または、その、あの）窓を開けるの？ "
Example 2
Paul is a 3-year-old boy. He wanted to open a window, but he doesn't know how to because he never has, and he asked his mom, "How do I open a window? どうやって窓を開けるの？"
If you don't put a demonstrative, before window, whatever the situation it will sound like Example 2, where the speaker doesn't know how to open it. That is why I put the demonstrative there. Sorry I know this may not relate to the thread directly but I thought it was important.

Well, we've had several native speakers respond to this thread and others like it who don't seem to agree with your logic. I talked with someone on the phone this morning without a pronoun who laughed at the theory at never having opened a window. If all parties understand what the speaker is referring to, 窓 alone is perfectly natural.

 

[tamagogohan]

Well, we've had several native speakers respond to this thread and others like it who don't seem to agree with your logic. I talked with someone on the phone this morning without a pronoun who laughed at the theory at never having opened a window. If all parties understand what the speaker is referring to, 窓 alone is perfectly natural.

Elizabeth,
I am a native Japanese speaker too. I agree that people will understand the meaning of the phrase without demonstratives (and also the sentence is correct) but as a native Japanese speaker, it sounds more natural with the demonstrative. I know that many non native speakers tends to speak Japanese without demonstratives but sometimes it sounds unnatural. Where there is rule, there is exception. This window example is one of them too I guess. Even if the listeners knows the specific window the speaker is referring to, 窓をどうやって開けるの？ still sounds like "How do I open a window?" at least to me.:?

 

[Elizabeth]

Elizabeth,
I am a native Japanese speaker too. I agree that people will understand the meaning of the phrase without demonstratives (and also the sentence is correct) but as a native Japanese speaker, it sounds more natural with the demonstrative. I know that many non native speakers tends to speak Japanese without demonstratives but sometimes it sounds unnatural. Where there is rule, there is exception. This window example is one of them too I guess. Even if the listeners knows the specific window the speaker is referring to, 窓をどうやって開けるの？ still sounds like "How do I open a window?" at least to me.:?

No, problem. I understand now you didn't come in and tell everyone else they were wrong.


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