Have you encountered discrimination or prejudices in Japan?

[nice gaijin]

The demographic realities dictate that one way or another, more and more foreigners are coming here. Either to work and pay tax or with assult rifles to take over (speaking within the prisim of the prevailing socio-economic order that exists in Japan and its big neighbours in China, Russia and USA.) . If you prefer the former I suggest you reconcile yourself to the fact that foreigners have rights and desist being in such a terrible state of nervous irritation when anyone is so bold as to point this out.

Are you suggesting we take up arms against the status quo because you were asked for ID? Are you really that delusional?

Insofar as the second paragraph I have no idea what you are talking about. I was interested to know about the experience and knowledge of others on the subject but had you people all over, spitting out insults and etc on threads I was posting on a month or so ago. I stopped posting and waited in the vain hope that you people would have something better to do than spend hours going through these threads and ruining them with non-stop nonsese messages.

How many times do you need to repeat the same negative story you told in your other thread. Did it actually surprise you that you evoked such a reaction?

I'm pretty sure you've beaten your story into the ground, so why continue to repeat the same things over and over? I think you need to learn how to better pick your battles, both on the subjects you argue and when you want to openly defy the police who may or may not be racist, but in the end ARE just doing their job.

If you're really so attached to your interpretation of the law, maybe you should try to get the law refined so it is more clear on this point instead of endlessly railing against the individual officers, especially to a bunch of people that think your interpretation is incorrect.

OR you could continue to believe your interpretation, and when you are arrested, the court's findings would set a precedent for all of us. Just how much do you trust your interpretation?

 

[Chidoriashi]

God have mercy! You people are really fanatical, arent you?

Holy crap. Look who is talking.

You just hate it so much that foreigners would have any rights in Japan, dont you?

Ok, this just confirms for me that you are insane or truly over reacting. A simple ID check means we have no rights? Yes, well my recent experience with my accident confirms for me that my rights are perfectly intact, considering my new bike, my hospital bills and even my cab ride home are being paid for by the other person's insurance.

I think you on purpose ruin this thread, the one I started on the topic and the one I originally posted on to.

Happy to be of service.

Insofar as the second paragraph I have no idea what you are talking about.

Well maybe you don't, but your little "freak out" post here makes me think otherwise.

I was interested to know about the experience and knowledge of others on the subject

No you weren't. You have been interested in one thing this entire time, and that is finding people with the same hatred and bad experiences you have had so you could hold an internet b*tching fest. So when people on this forum were kind enough to read the laws for you, you flew off the handle because the truth was not in line with what you wanted to hear. Once again, you are simply just trusting what somebody wrote for you in English. Get and education, and learn to read the law in Japanese, because that is the final authority on the subject.

but had you people all over, spitting out insults and etc on threads I was posting on a month or so ago.

Who has been spitting out insults all this time>> "fascists fascists fascists fascists fascists fascists fascists fascists fascists fascists fascists fascists fascists fascists fascists fascists"

I stopped posting and waited in the vain hope that you people would have something better to do than spend hours going through these threads and ruining them with non-stop nonsese messages.

You are the one spitting out the nonsense. You keep on posting the same thing, and refuse to have a normal dialogue defending your opinions. I have pointed out for you time and time again where you are wrong, and you have refused over and over again to engage in a discussion about what the Japanese text says. So maybe you could do us all a favor and stop posting your non-stop BS.

Finally, its not my information. It is that of a Japanese citizen who has studied the subject and been so kind as to tell others.

Let me correct this. He is a naturalized Japanese citizen who is caucasian and was originally an American citizen.

If you have a problem with this information, take it up with him.

What he says he says on his website. You are the one trying to post things here.

I am hardly going to believe you or any of your little gang over Debito. His motives are perfectly clear.

Well at least it is clear now that you cannot actually read the Japanese for yourself, and sound quite silly professing such great knowledge about something you have not even studied for yourself. And yes Debito, does have an agenda, he is now a citizen of this country, and you are still a foreigner. So no, HE does not have to show ID. You however do. Don't like it... tough. And the fact is, if I remember right, Debito does not even specifically say you have the right to refuse to show the police ID, but the way puts things in English could lead enraged little souls like yourself into believing that you can just tell an officer to F-off if they try and stop you.

He was extremely irritated about being harrassed by the police due to having white skin.

"White skin, white skin, white skin." You are really hung up on your issues aren't you.

Your motives for not wanting people to know about this are becoming increasingly clear.

Oh please do tell me what are they. I would really like to know what ridiculous conclusions your stubborn mind has concocted.

Now, will you '$#)'&% please desist from replying to me!!!

"Because I have to have the last word, AARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!!"

If you do this as publicly and slowly as possible and record the details. They only want to show how "powerful" and "important" they are and doing this will only shoot down their little power-trip.

You are so fricking delusional. You really think they are out to get you huh?

 

[jmwintenn]

alright guys,im gonna say this then ditch this thread as what im about to say holds true,

"never argue with an idiot,they bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

 

[Reyter]

Are you suggesting we take up arms against the status quo because you were asked for ID? Are you really that delusional?

LOL, that is funny! Are you serious or having fun with me? If English is your first language I can only presume it is the latter. Capitalist economy dikatates the need for exapanding markets, resources and general "spheres of influence". If Japan is weak and empty one of its big neighbours will move in and take Japan. Japan will be weak and empty unless there is a lot more immigration. As the numbers of immigrants increases relative to the native population, they will demand more rights and pretty soon the same rights as native people.

How many times do you need to repeat the same negative story you told in your other thread. Did it actually surprise you that you evoked such a reaction?

I'm pretty sure you've beaten your story into the ground, so why continue to repeat the same things over and over? I think you need to learn how to better pick your battles, both on the subjects you argue and when you want to openly defy the police who may or may not be racist, but in the end ARE just doing their job.

LOL, you are funny. I have been "beaten to the groud"? How so? Thats what I keep saying! Are you stupid??? Part of their job description isnt to ignore the law in order to harrass people who have different color skin simply becasue they have different color skin.

If you're really so attached to your interpretation of the law, maybe you should try to get the law refined so it is more clear on this point instead of endlessly railing against the individual officers, especially to a bunch of people that think your interpretation is incorrect.

I did confirm my interpretation wioth a very high ranking female policewomen. I mean, she works for the police isnt just a dopey s##tkicker cruising around trying to get in the face of people who have different color skin while mafia criminals run rampant.

Its really beside the point. I have said in my original post and several times since, to just publicly and slowly inspect their I.D. first is enough if you are in a hurry..... or just cant stand the stench of the kind of police who cruise around trying to cause trouble for different color skinned people.

You user name is really interesting. You are aware that the term "gaijin" is primarily a deragatory term given to foreigners. Are you really a ﾂ"ﾅ?Oﾂ坂?伉人ﾂ"ﾂ？ If so, do you suffer from some kind of bizzare form of the Stockholm syndrome? There is probably another, more specific term for it but I am not a psychologist. I dont know the term.

BTW; I will continue to repeat the same message because I want all foreigners to know about this because I know how many have complined of harrassment by the police and I know many of them have left Japan with a very bad impression. They should know that it isnt Japan or Japanese society in general, it is merely some lawless, racist police who want people to know, or think, how "powerful" and "important" they are. However in the end, they are merely annoying little fascists who should be in the gulag!

 

[FrustratedDave]

God have mercy! You people are really fanatical, arent you? You just hate it so much that foreigners would have any rights in Japan, dont you? Once again, the only appropriate way to describe this is fascistic.

 

[Glenski]

Do not feed the trolls.

 

[Reyter]

This is a lot of fighting, but I'm not exactly sure why it's going on. :?
There's a difference between asking personal questions and asking for identification. The "Gaijin Card" carries a lot of personal information on it, like your address, etc. Having that information recorded down over and over again when you haven't done anything wrong would be unnerving to anyone. Would having your information taken down multiple times mean that should something in your area go wrong, you're going to be a strong suspect because you've clearly been deemed suspicious by the Japanese police? Being asked questions (where are you going, what are you doing) is moderately annoying, but not nearly as worrisome as having your personal information demanded and recorded. Heck, I was asked "personal questions" at my own school in the States, but I think it was just that officer's slightly creepy way of making small talk.
Now, if I were busy loitering around a place for a really long period of time (like maybe I completely misunderstood where I was meeting someone, knowing myself), I would consider that just suspicious enough to be politely questioned no matter what country I was in. Just walking down the street and having my ID demanded is a bit much. All that does is tell me that in that officer's eyes, I don't belong. Those Japanese laws have tried to make it so that racial profiling is not reason enough to ask for your ID, and I can agree with that. Stereotypes are common anywhere, but that shouldn't lead to harassment, and no, I'm not referring just to Japan. I personally had no trouble with the police when I lived in Japan (I'm black, so I definitely stand out), but I appreciate the fact that in some respect, at least, someone is trying to make sure that I feel comfortable there. Even if a few xenophobic people are causing distress in the foreign population.
So, like I said, I'm not sure why all this fighting is going on. I hope I'm not about to be targeted just because I posted in the middle of it.
EDIT: Rereading the law about police behavior, I just noticed that it doesn't actually say anything about showing your ID, just that they need justifiable cause to question you. I'm guessing that's where all the contention is, huh?

I think you hit the nail right on the head. These people seem to think that I have nothing to be pi##ed off about. On another thread one guy told a story about how he was sitting outside Lotteria and the policeman came along and asked to see his I.D. He stated that he happily showed it and didnt see any cause for concern about this. I cant understand that at all. Of course they are foreigners but "most" of the people so upset with me on this thread are Japanese and I can only presume they are fascists, closet or otherwise. A few messages up one guy gave himself away "correcting me" in saying that Debito is a naturalized Japnese citizen who has white skin and was born in USA (all of which i already knew but didnt consider important.) and seemingly thereby justifying police harrassment of him.

Anyway, the point is that Japan is a nice people and the vast majority of people are very decent. Certainly not fascists and thus I was shocked that the police could stop me, demand my I.D, question me only because I have different color skin from the native people. Well it turns out I shouldnt have been shocked because they cant lawfully do that.

Even in the case of different interpretations of the law, no one contests that you have the right to first inspect their I.D. before presenting your own. Doing it slowly and publicly would be enough to humiliate them and discourage them from this type of conduct in the future.

Of course the law states that if a foreigner is under suspicion of carrying out or preparing to carry out a crime, he or she must present I.D. if requested to do so by the police. I have no problem with that at all....just as long as they present their I.D. for me to inspect first.

 

[Reyter]

some stupid graphics

LOL you created a little image just for me???? Funny! I have made such an impression on you? You really have a lot of free time, dont you?

 

[FrustratedDave]

....................................

 

[thomas]

Dear members, I really do not want to (temporarily) close this thread due to personal attacks and irrelevant, hateful and emotional debates that keep on going in circles (cf. police thread), but shall not hesitate to do so if deemed necessary. Take a deep breath everyone and let's get back to a factual and respectful discussion.

Thanks.

 

[Reyter]

Dear members, I really do not want to (temporarily) close this thread due to personal attacks and irrelevant, hateful and emotional debates that keep on going in circles (cf. police thread), but shall not hesitate to do so if deemed necessary. Take a deep breath everyone and let's get back to a factual and respectful discussion.

Thanks.

Thanks for that. I also dont want to it to decend into irrelevant babble. At least not more so than it already has. I was planning on taking a break and then coming back in a week or so becasue i want all foreigners to know their rights and not be harassed by police due to the color of their skin. Many or most of these others absolutely dont want that and therefore wont stop with the aformentioned babble. If they continue when I come back is there any chance of simply removing the messages?

 

[FrustratedDave]

LOL you created a little image just for me???? Funny! I have made such an impression on you? You really have a lot of free time, dont you?

Don't quote me and re-write it to how you want. And yes I do have free time , b/c it is 4 day long weekend, did you forget that Jack?

Thanks for that. I also dont want to it to decend into irrelevant babble. At least not more so than it already has. I was planning on taking a break and then coming back in a week or so becasue i want all foreigners to know their rights and not be harassed by police due to the color of their skin. Many or most of these others absolutely dont want that and therefore wont stop with the aformentioned babble. If they continue when I come back is there any chance of simply removing the messages?

Unfortunately it is you that has decended into irrelevant babble a long, long time ago and I guess someone of your statue would have a hard time recognising that. I think removing you will be the the quickest and most painless in this situation. Don't you think it is strange that 99% of people are disagreeing with you? Why are you the only one who is agreeing with you? You are indeed a sad individual...

 

[nice gaijin]

LOL, that is funny! Are you serious or having fun with me? If English is your first language I can only presume it is the latter.

First of all, before you question someone's language skills, you need to have two options in order to refer to "the latter."

Capitalist economy dikatates the need for exapanding markets, resources and general "spheres of influence". If Japan is weak and empty one of its big neighbours will move in and take Japan. Japan will be weak and empty unless there is a lot more immigration. As the numbers of immigrants increases relative to the native population, they will demand more rights and pretty soon the same rights as native people.

That's a logical fallacy wrapped up to look logical. Japan does need immigrants in order to sustain its declining population, but foreign residents will not have the political clout to demand more rights until they are organized, and they won't be able to demand rights equal to native citizens unless they're naturalized, which means they would no longer be foreigners. Unless you're talking about giving equal rights to foreign residents, in which case good luck arguing that one in parliament.

LOL, you are funny. I have been "beaten to the groud"? How so? Thats what I keep saying! Are you stupid??? Part of their job description isnt to ignore the law in order to harrass people who have different color skin simply becasue they have different color skin.

I'm afraid you didn't bother to read what I wrote. Try again. There's no need for you to insult me or my intelligence. I won't respond in kind, and the more you post things like this the less your opinion matters.

I did confirm my interpretation wioth a very high ranking female policewomen. I mean, she works for the police isnt just a dopey s##tkicker cruising around trying to get in the face of people who have different color skin while mafia criminals run rampant.
Its really beside the point. I have said in my original post and several times since, to just publicly and slowly inspect their I.D. first is enough if you are in a hurry..... or just cant stand the stench of the kind of police who cruise around trying to cause trouble for different color skinned people.

Funny that this is the first time you've mentioned this. Forgive me for not believing a hearsay confirmation from "a very high ranking female policewomen." I'm sure it's supposed to sound like a very credible source.

You user name is really interesting. You are aware that the term "gaijin" is primarily a deragatory term given to foreigners. Are you really a ﾂ"ﾅ?Oﾂ坂?伉人ﾂ"ﾂ？ If so, do you suffer from some kind of bizzare form of the Stockholm syndrome? There is probably another, more specific term for it but I am not a psychologist. I dont know the term.
BTW; I will continue to repeat the same message because I want all foreigners to know about this because I know how many have complined of harrassment by the police and I know many of them have left Japan with a very bad impression. They should know that it isnt Japan or Japanese society in general, it is merely some lawless, racist police who want people to know, or think, how "powerful" and "important" they are. However in the end, they are merely annoying little fascists who should be in the gulag!

I'm aware of the meaning of my name; were you aware that it's not necessarily a derogatory term? Again, I'm not going to bother responding to your lame insults so perhaps you can try to actually make a point for a change instead of making these sad strawman arguments against me. Attacking my character doesn't make you any more right.

Once again, the proof is in the pudding. Follow your own advice and refuse to present ID the next time you're questioned by the police. Set the precedent so there won't be any question as to how the law is interpreted. In the meantime, you should probably avoid proclaiming this interpretation of the law, especially because you have no personal experience with the police that reinforces this interpretation (You admittedly have capitulated every time you were asked for ID). Practice what you preach.

 

[Pachipro]

Do not feed the trolls.

I can't help myself Glenski and I know your views on Debito and what he is trying to do. Although we have our differences, I respect your views, but must post my opinion here.

Here again we have another troll and another uninformed, inexperienced wannabe "Debito disciple" looking to impose their racist views on other foreigners that the Japanese police are racist and discriminatory because they ask for ID. Just by using the word "pig" for the police shows his racist views. Is he from the 70's or what?

If he had done a simple search he would see that this subject, as well as Debito, has been covered time and time again and is just looking to stir up trouble or he is young, dumb, and inexperienced. His profile says he lives in Japan, but it also says he has never been to Japan. One would think that a person wishing to state such incendiary views would at least know how to fill out a simple profile.

One must remember, as others have stated above, the Japanese police have every right to ask you for your ID whenever they feel like it and for whatever reason regardless of what the law states. If you don't like it or find it offensive and discriminatory, leave already! You are not in your home country anymore so don't expect the same rights.

He has been asked for his ID three times. Big f--king deal! There are others here who have been asked more than 10 times. Some have a problem with it and others don't. Just because one does not have a problem with it does not make them weak IMO. What's the problem? You are in a foreign country for gosh sakes and you stand out like a sore thumb. Why not save yourself a lot of hassle and just show it to them? What are you trying to prove? That you have rights and are better than the Japanese because you are a foreigner and that you should not be asked for your ID to prove you are in the country legally?

You are a foreigner a "gaijin" a "gaikokujin" and if you can't stand the heat get the hell out of the kitchen. If you are going to live in Japan you better get used to it or you will end up like the countless of other foreigners I have known who live in a country they despise and hate, but have no where else to go and refuse to learn the language and culture.

I lived in Japan more than 15 years and have been arrested and not allowed to speak to anyone, not even a lawyer, for two weeks. I have been taken in for not having my gaijin card on my person when asked, and I have been asked a few times for ID when riding my bicycle and I never once thought I was being singled out or discriminated against. In all cases I was treated with the utmost respect by the Japanese police even when I was in jail. I broke their laws and I understood it!

Also, I have never been barred from re-entering Japan as others have been. Why? Maybe it was because I had a Japanese wife or maybe it was because I understood the laws and customs, as well as the language, and abided by them even when it came to apologizing before a court for my youthful indiscretions and never tried to prove that I had "rights" because I was American. Maybe it was a combination of both.

Get used to it! Living in Japan as a foreigner, as others will attest to, and being asked for your ID is a fact of life. It always has been and always will be. It has not changed in more than 50 or more years and never will in the near future. Also, you will never change it regardless of what you say or how much you protest, or what international law is or what the birth rate is. The fact remains that Japan is a sovereign nation and they have the right, whether you like it or not, to ask you for your ID or to take you in for questioning if they so desire.

Japan's laws do not have to conform to your country's laws and if you don't like it tough sh-t! You can b-tch and moan all you want as I have seen others do these nearly 40 years and still nothing has changed. What you cry about has been cried about for as long as I can remember and still it remains the same. What makes you think you can change it? Debito never has. Japan will only change when Japan wants to change and not because you or others demand it.

Is it right? Not in my opinion and based on the way I was brought up and taught to believe. However, I understood I was not living in my country and the laws are different. But the fact remains that Japan is Japan and not the US or Northern Europe and they will abide by their own laws, not yours or mine.

In my case I understood it and learned to live with it and it made my stay in Japan that much more better and I never had the feelings you have or others have concerning the Japanese police. Knowing their laws and the fact that they will probably never change in the near term, I still plan to retire there shortly and will not try to change Japan or their laws as I expect to be asked now and then for my "gaijin" card when riding my bicycle or just walking the street. To me, as much as I may disagree with it being American, you may disagree, but it shows me they are doing their job.

If you think the Japanese are racist in asking for your ID just try coming here to the US these days and try and ask the police for their ID when they ask for yours as they will at their discretion, or try and ask them for their ID when they stop you for a traffic stop and search your car with no warrant. You'll find yourself in jail faster than you can imagine. Would that be discriminatory or racist in your view?

 

[FrustratedDave]

Pachipro、I agree completely.

 

[Reyter]

First of all, before you question someone's language skills, you need to have two options in order to refer to "the latter."

"Serious" or "having fun with me". English isnt my first language but I think i speak it pretty well, dont I?
Apart from this sentence your message was well thought out and put together so i will reply.

That's a logical fallacy wrapped up to look logical. Japan does need immigrants in order to sustain its declining population, but foreign residents will not have the political clout to demand more rights until they are organized, and they won't be able to demand rights equal to native citizens unless they're naturalized, which means they would no longer be foreigners. Unless you're talking about giving equal rights to foreign residents, in which case good luck arguing that one in parliament.

Good point. That is what Debito is trying to do I believe. I am not involved in any significant political activities here but I am trying to do my part in letting foreigners know their rights in dealings with the police. Of course I refering to the uniformed s##tkickers cruising around getting in the face of people with different color skin simply becasue they ahve different color skin. Henceforth I will refer to them as pigs or fascists whether others like it or not. I believe as the numbers grow and become more concentrated political organization will come about. I dont think this has never not happened in any multicultural or even somewhat multicultural place anywhere previously.

I'm afraid you didn't bother to read what I wrote. Try again. There's no need for you to insult me or my intelligence. I won't respond in kind, and the more you post things like this the less your opinion matters.
Funny that this is the first time you've mentioned this. Forgive me for not believing a hearsay confirmation from "a very high ranking female policewomen." I'm sure it's supposed to sound like a very credible source.

You were the one spitting insults at me first. I never mentioned it because I asked her in a casual conversation and she is a psychologist (helps the victims of crime, primarily children. A very nice and very pretty lady.) not a lawyer. I would certainly believe her over some of these "people" posting here who are really desperate to prevent foreigners knowing their rights. I mean Chidoriaishi is clearly a fascist. You can see he justifying police harrassment of Debito becasue he is a naturlized Japanese citizen with white-skin rather than a native Japanese person. While poor "frustrated Dave" is not the brightest person in the world, to say the least. Who would you believe? Its really beside the point anyway.

What I will do if stopped in such a manner by the pigs again is show the Debitos card. If they want to go on with it, I will go from the start but this time showing them I am recording the exchange. I will then (while still recording) ask for their I.D. and if they refuse to show it........... I wont present mine either. If they still want to go on with it...... trouble! Then after all is said and done i will lodge a complaint and if nothing happens with that, see a lawyer. If still nothing happenes i will pack my bags, and take my girlfriend with me home. Is that acceptable for you?

I'm aware of the meaning of my name; were you aware that it's not necessarily a derogatory term? Again, I'm not going to bother responding to your lame insults so perhaps you can try to actually make a point for a change instead of making these sad strawman arguments against me. Attacking my character doesn't make you any more right.

It is primarily used as a derogatory term. I cant understand why you would use it unless you like being reffered to in derogatory terms.

(You admittedly have capitulated every time you were asked for ID). Practice what you preach.

Thats right because I wasnt sure about the law. Now that I am, I will follow the steps outlined above.

 

[Reyter]

some nonsense

Firstly if you want me to reply, then reply and address me rather than someone else. If you dont want me to reply, dont ask me questions.

This being so, if you want me to reply you will have to address me directly.

I just have one question. If everyone, or even a majority of people shared or have ever shared your attitude, how far do you think human civilisation would have advanced anywhere? Your message in a nutshell seems to be, "so what if you are treated badly by police or anyone else, you should just accept it and to not do so is only causing uneccessary trouble."

 

[Chidoriashi]

I would certainly believe her over some of these "people" posting here who are really desperate to prevent foreigners knowing their rights. I mean Chidoriaishi is clearly a fascist. You can see he justifying police harrassment of Debito becasue he is a naturlized Japanese citizen with white-skin rather than a native Japanese person. While poor "frustrated Dave" is not the brightest person in the world, to say the least. Who would you believe? Its really beside the point anyway.

Reyter your ability to not comprehend why people wrote the things they wrote, or why we are debating with you is unprecedented. Why would I be out to keep foreigners from knowing their rights? I have blond hair and blue eyes, and that's about as "foreign looking" as one gets here. What I am doing is preventing you from posting misinformation, and misleading other foreigners into thinking it is in all "our" best interest to cause a big hassle for the police who, according to what is written in Japanese law, are just doing their job. Unfortunately, you are incapable of a logical debate because you do not possess the proper Japanese skills to come up with your own interpretation of the law. So you trust what Debito says, simply because it is what you want to hear. Tell me Retyer, where does Debito say specifically that as a foreigner you have the right to refuse to show your ID to the police? It does not say it directly in English and it does not even mention it in Japanese.

What I said I about Debito, I said because you were trying to mislead other readers into thinking that a Japanese born citizen is the one supporting your case (actually he is not supporting your case, though he is very misleading, and I'm sorry you are too blind with hatred to see it). I fully agree that as citizen of this country Debito has the right to fair and equal treatment like other Japanese. And I am so sorry that HE is racially profiled, but what the hell else can he do? He is a grave minority in this country, and logically, he should expect this.

If they still want to go on with it...... trouble!

Yeah, for you my friend.

Then after all is said and done i will lodge a complaint and if nothing happens with that, see a lawyer.

Why? The law is not on your side. You cannot even read and yet you are going to depend on it.... truly brilliant buddy.

i will pack my bags, and take my girlfriend with me home.

Would you please? You would really be doing all of us other foreigners a favor.

Thats right because I wasnt sure about the law. Now that I am, I will follow the steps outlined above.

You are sure about something you cannot even read. (Shakes head disbelief of the idiocy) Hmmmm... I'm pretty sure Egyptian hieroglyphics say that I am HE-MAN master of the universe. (Sense the sarcasm)

 

[FrustratedDave]

"Serious" or "having fun with me". English isnt my first language but I think i speak it pretty well, dont I?

No.

Apart from this sentence your message was well thought out and put together so i will reply.

Says he with no reading or comprehension skills.

Good point. That is what Debito is trying to do I believe. I am not involved in any significant political activities here but I am trying to do my part in letting foreigners know their rights in dealings with the police. Of course I refering to the uniformed s##tkickers cruising around getting in the face of people with different color skin simply becasue they ahve different color skin. Henceforth I will refer to them as pigs or fascists whether others like it or not. I believe as the numbers grow and become more concentrated political organization will come about. I dont think this has never not happened in any multicultural or even somewhat multicultural place anywhere previously.

Really? Is that what he is trying to do? Unfortuanately your conveying the wrong infomation, but you keep on in that dream world of yours.

You were the one spitting insults at me first. I never mentioned it because I asked her in a casual conversation and she is a psychologist (helps the victims of crime, primarily children. A very nice and very pretty lady.) not a lawyer. I would certainly believe her over some of these "people" posting here who are really desperate to prevent foreigners knowing their rights.

Well it seems your commuication skills are very poor, b/c noone who works for the police force would say what you are saying they did. You must really suck at Japanese as bad as you do at English... Get her to sign up and have her inform us herself in Japanese of what she said to you. She should not have a problem with that at all. If you can't do that give me where she works and I will call her and confirm and post back here what she said.

I mean Chidoriaishi is clearly a fascist. You can see he justifying police harrassment of Debito becasue he is a naturlized Japanese citizen with white-skin rather than a native Japanese person.

Yeah, yeah ,yeah.... And an Japanese person of asian decent would get the same treatment if he/she were to act like Debido does.

While poor "frustrated Dave" is not the brightest person in the world, to say the least. Who would you believe?

Don't feel sorry for me, I am doing pretty well for "not the brightest person". I own my house and 400 tsubo of land and I own a company started here in Japan and employ about 200 people.
I do have my doubts about you though, as you don't seem dumb, you are actually walking that road.

Its really beside the point anyway.
What I will do if stopped in such a manner by the pigs again is show the Debitos card. If they want to go on with it, I will go from the start but this time showing them I am recording the exchange. I will then (while still recording) ask for their I.D. and if they refuse to show it........... I wont present mine either. If they still want to go on with it...... trouble! Then after all is said and done i will lodge a complaint and if nothing happens with that, see a lawyer. If still nothing happenes i will pack my bags, and take my girlfriend with me home. Is that acceptable for you?

Please do, Japan and all the other forigners living here will be better for it. I just hope you decide not to show your ID even when you were doing nothing suspicious

It is primarily used as a derogatory term. I cant understand why you would use it unless you like being reffered to in derogatory terms.
Thats right because I wasnt sure about the law. Now that I am, I will follow the steps outlined above.

Sure about the law, that is a laugh, thanks for that.

 

[nice gaijin]

"Serious" or "having fun with me". English isnt my first language but I think i speak it pretty well, dont I? Apart from this sentence your message was well thought out and put together so i will reply.

I'm glad for your sake to hear that English isn't your first language. I can't be sure how well you speak it, only how you write. Moving on...

Good point. That is what Debito is trying to do I believe. I am not involved in any significant political activities here but I am trying to do my part in letting foreigners know their rights in dealings with the police. Of course I refering to the uniformed s##tkickers cruising around getting in the face of people with different color skin simply becasue they ahve different color skin. Henceforth I will refer to them as pigs or fascists whether others like it or not. I believe as the numbers grow and become more concentrated political organization will come about. I dont think this has never not happened in any multicultural or even somewhat multicultural place anywhere previously.

Your disdain for the police is noted, but throwing around disparaging terms all the time is weary for me, and is not conducive to productive conversation.

I think the common ground we have is that I am all for foreigners (and anyone else, for that matter) being fully aware of their rights and knowing how to exercise them. However, I think it's equally important to have a common understanding of those rights, and the good sense of knowing when to exercise them. If you are belligerent and confrontational with the police, I think they would be less inclined to simply leave it at that, especially if they don't share your interpretation of the law. You may find yourself in more trouble than you bargained for. Nothing can make your hell quite like a bureaucracy, and the Japanese are experts at bureaucracy.

You were the one spitting insults at me first.

....when did I insult you? I'll requote myself and bold the relevant part

I'm pretty sure you've beaten your story into the ground, so why continue to repeat the same things over and over?

The misunderstanding is on your side, I'm afraid. I have yet to have insulted you in any deliberate way, and if you can't extend the same courtesy then there's no point in responding anymore.

I never mentioned it because I asked her in a casual conversation and she is a psychologist (helps the victims of crime, primarily children. A very nice and very pretty lady.) not a lawyer. I would certainly believe her over some of these "people" posting here who are really desperate to prevent foreigners knowing their rights. I mean Chidoriaishi is clearly a fascist. You can see he justifying police harrassment of Debito becasue he is a naturlized Japanese citizen with white-skin rather than a native Japanese person. While poor "frustrated Dave" is not the brightest person in the world, to say the least. Who would you believe? Its really beside the point anyway.

It is beside the point, and again, if you continue to attack people that disagree with you, this conversation will simply end.

What I will do if stopped in such a manner by the pigs again is show the Debitos card. If they want to go on with it, I will go from the start but this time showing them I am recording the exchange. I will then (while still recording) ask for their I.D. and if they refuse to show it........... I wont present mine either. If they still want to go on with it...... trouble! Then after all is said and done i will lodge a complaint and if nothing happens with that, see a lawyer. If still nothing happenes i will pack my bags, and take my girlfriend with me home. Is that acceptable for you?

It doesn't matter what is acceptable to me. Do what you do, and if you'd like you can share your experience with us here. But I guarantee you people here will have an opinion about it, and insulting anyone is not going to improve that opinion.

It is primarily used as a derogatory term. I cant understand why you would use it unless you like being reffered to in derogatory terms.

Perhaps you see it that way, but my experience is different. It's also a play on words. It's also similar to a band from a couple decades ago (nice guyjin). But really, my user name is not pertinent to this discussion.

 

[Chidoriashi]

Wow... lookie here at this gem I found straight from the messiah's website himself. Please tell me again now.. how is your case for refusing an ID check being supported Reyter??

"CONCLUSIONS
In any case, although we cannot refuse to show our ID if the cops really know the law...."
www.debito.org: What to do if the Japanese Police arbitrarily stop you for a Gaijin Card Check PT 2

Scroll down to the bottom of the page it is in plain site. Reyter this is the final and 1000th nail in the coffin of your case. Will you give up now please and go away?

 

[Reyter]

I'm glad for your sake to hear that English isn't your first language. I can't be sure how well you speak it, only how you write. Moving on...

Your disdain for the police is noted, but throwing around disparaging terms all the time is weary for me, and is not conducive to productive conversation.

I think the common ground we have is that I am all for foreigners (and anyone else, for that matter) being fully aware of their rights and knowing how to exercise them. However, I think it's equally important to have a common understanding of those rights, and the good sense of knowing when to exercise them. If you are belligerent and confrontational with the police, I think they would be less inclined to simply leave it at that, especially if they don't share your interpretation of the law. You may find yourself in more trouble than you bargained for. Nothing can make your hell quite like a bureaucracy, and the Japanese are experts at bureaucracy.

....when did I insult you? I'll requote myself and bold the relevant part
The misunderstanding is on your side, I'm afraid. I have yet to have insulted you in any deliberate way, and if you can't extend the same courtesy then there's no point in responding anymore.

It is beside the point, and again, if you continue to attack people that disagree with you, this conversation will simply end.

It doesn't matter what is acceptable to me. Do what you do, and if you'd like you can share your experience with us here. But I guarantee you people here will have an opinion about it, and insulting anyone is not going to improve that opinion.

Perhaps you see it that way, but my experience is different. It's also a play on words. It's also similar to a band from a couple decades ago (nice guyjin). But really, my user name is not pertinent to this discussion.

I just have a few points.
I was refferring to the "how delusional are you?" comment. Is that not an insult?

It is really disingenuous to lecture me on attacking people who disagree with me. Have a look through this thread and see who started attacking who first. I havent replied to either of them for some time but still...... they are dedicated. Of course if you care to look through this thread (I havent checked but I wonder if that guy has removed the comment about Debito being white skinned and born in USA.) would you say what I said about either of them isnt true?

Insofar as the police, because you have adopeted a civil tone I will do likewise in refferring to them as you seem not to like it otherwise. I dont neccessarily dislike them but when one is pulled up like he is a criminal 2 times and a third time after helping them, and having my details recorded, merely for having white skin, it tends to leave a negative impression. That is on an impression which wasnt very high to start with. I wasnt belligerent the first time and wouldnt go so far as to say that the second time though I wasnt cooperative either. Of course the third time, recently, I was extremely belligerent (only after they turned on me after I helped them). I guess those ones were smarter than average becasue it wouldnt have reflected well on them if i was arrested and the details of the situation became known to a judge or someone like that.

Insofar as my interpretation of the law, if others disagree thats fine. If I am stopped again i will test it and let you know what happens of you like. What no one disputes is that you have the right to first inspect their ID. As I have said several times, doing it slowly and publicly should be enough to humiliate them and discourage such behavior in the future. I just hope any foreigners who read this arent docile lackeys enough to just hand their I.D. over.

Finally, it just seems like several people who have replied to me have been beated down and abused so much they actually like it. Take the message by "Pachipro" as a classic example. I just got the impression giving yourself a username that is generally used as a derogatory term to be an example of this. It is basically the same as a 3 letter word (which I never use because I dont like to insult people on the basis of their race, ethnic group or nationality.) for Japanese people. The origin of the name isnt derogatory but it has come to be derogatory. Being a 外国人 here, I would hope that you would discourage people from using it because I dont want them to think they can use it with me.

 

[Chidoriashi]

It is really disingenuous to lecture me on attacking people who disagree with me. Have a look through this thread and see who started attacking who first. I havent replied to either of them for some time but still...... they are dedicated. Of course if you care to look through this thread (I havent checked but I wonder if that guy has removed the comment about Debito being white skinned and born in USA.) would you say what I said about either of them isnt true?

How about we look through all the "Police Harassment" threads and see who started getting the attitude, and saying inflammatory things to people first?

And why would I remove my comment about Debito? I explained why I said it. Do you think you somehow "got me"? Anyway, but that's right you don't read my posts because they show how you have been wrong this whole time. I keep on forgetting that you refuse to have regular dialogue with me about the law.

I dont neccessarily dislike them but when one is pulled up like he is a criminal 2 times and a third time after helping them, and having my details recorded, merely for having white skin, it tends to leave a negative impression. That is on an impression which wasnt very high to start with. I wasnt belligerent the first time and wouldnt go so far as to say that the second time though I wasnt cooperative either. Of course the third time, recently, I was extremely belligerent

You were acting belligerent and uncooperative and the police then started giving you are hard time??? Goodness gracious, imagine that! Well isn't this world just a topsy-turvy place.

Insofar as my interpretation of the law, if others disagree thats fine.

At first all I was trying to do was show you in a factual manner how your interpretation was incorrect. You are the one that has turned this into the fiasco it has become.

Finally, it just seems like several people who have replied to me have been beated down and abused so much they actually like it. Take the message by "Pachipro" as a classic example.

No, we are all just more sensible than you, and have a better understanding and acceptance for this wonderful country than you apparently will ever come close to having. You still cannot just see that you are the cause of your own troubles in this country. Whatever man, enjoy your bewildering misery and frustration.

 

[FrustratedDave]

I just have a few points.
I was refferring to the "how delusional are you?" comment. Is that not an insult?
It is really disingenuous to lecture me on attacking people who disagree with me. Have a look through this thread and see who started attacking who first. I havent replied to either of them for some time but still...... they are dedicated. Of course if you care to look through this thread (I havent checked but I wonder if that guy has removed the comment about Debito being white skinned and born in USA.) would you say what I said about either of them isnt true?
Insofar as the police, because you have adopeted a civil tone I will do likewise in refferring to them as you seem not to like it otherwise. I dont neccessarily dislike them but when one is pulled up like he is a criminal 2 times and a third time after helping them, and having my details recorded, merely for having white skin, it tends to leave a negative impression. That is on an impression which wasnt very high to start with. I wasnt belligerent the first time and wouldnt go so far as to say that the second time though I wasnt cooperative either. Of course the third time, recently, I was extremely belligerent (only after they turned on me after I helped them). I guess those ones were smarter than average becasue it wouldnt have reflected well on them if i was arrested and the details of the situation became known to a judge or someone like that.
Insofar as my interpretation of the law, if others disagree thats fine. If I am stopped again i will test it and let you know what happens of you like. What no one disputes is that you have the right to first inspect their ID. As I have said several times, doing it slowly and publicly should be enough to humiliate them and discourage such behavior in the future. I just hope any foreigners who read this arent docile lackeys enough to just hand their I.D. over.
Finally, it just seems like several people who have replied to me have been beated down and abused so much they actually like it. Take the message by "Pachipro" as a classic example. I just got the impression giving yourself a username that is generally used as a derogatory term to be an example of this. It is basically the same as a 3 letter word (which I never use because I dont like to insult people on the basis of their race, ethnic group or nationality.) for Japanese people. The origin of the name isnt derogatory but it has come to be derogatory. Being a ﾅ?Oﾂ坂?伉人 here, I would hope that you would discourage people from using it because I dont want them to think they can use it with me.

Typical foriegner who thinks their rights should be above those of the native citizens. You are in another country that is not yours so why do you expect to be treated above that of its citizens? Don't bother answering I don't think I could stand other stupid reply...

And I have no problem throwing insults toward a person who who is as shortsighted, ignorant, obtuse and belligerent as you are.

Still waiting for the phone number of the place that that lady works at, I am sure she would not mind a phone call to confirm an iterpretation on the law.

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

Reyter, I'm just curious. Have you looked at the link I supplied here?
Police Harassment

It's not directly related to this particular discussion at hand, but they may be of assistance to you when you feel you have been wronged. If your girlfriend is Japanese, she can help you with any language issues you may face.