Discrimination / Racism In Japan

[Glenski]

I often wonder if you brought a newborn child up in the middle of a jungle, and let it constantly play with let's say monkeys. would it grow up to imitate them, etc.

I think Edgar Rice Burroughs would say yes.

I'm curious about this whole thread, Returnee. What did you expect to gain by starting it? Obviously, you have spent time here. I would hope you know about www.debito.org and all the concerns related to the issues within.

What more did you want to know?

 

[Kyoto Returnee]

This is a good point, which, in fact, because the answer is 'yes'--to a degree it would happen--and just supports the concept that we are simply talking about in .vs. out grouping here...there is, as such, no other referent in nature for the term 'race'...and in my opinion, should not be used any more. Why is that so? Because of the continuum that all life forms are, and all branches, breeds, and descent lines thereof.

What we are, most realistically, doing here, is talking about strong in-bonding at the cost of greater disassociation of groups and/or ethnic descent groups, and the state of such in Japan today.

Indeed..

You soon establish that once you have a child, and compare that youngster to other differing ethnic children, you do relaize that we are genetically the same..

It's only as we grow up, and go through the learning process, that we then realize that we are different, simply because of our personality and opinions.. Even the culture part is a learnt thing, not a genetic thing, or is it?

So that's a good point for anyone who feels the smallest urge to be racist..

It is a culture, personality disagreement, not an internal organ problem if that makes sense LOL..

 

[Davey]

I disagree with racism in any country, but I think it's pretty logical that there is racism in Japan against foreigners... should you call it racism or should you call it being afraid of the unknown.

Japan only opened up about 150 years ago, had a WW2, and with only less than 2% of the population being foreigner. It's still funny how people think Japan can change this fast... IMO.

I do think that children need to learn about foreigners and foreign countries, by learning English from the elementary school in a combination with world culture lessons. The need to know that not every foreigner is an American, Dutch people are living in a windmill and are wearing clocks, and that all Americans are gun lovers and love eating at MacDonnalds.

 

[Chi65]

Well, I took my daughter always with me, from the very beginning, she is happily networking around the globe now. . . .

 

[Kyoto Returnee]

Just a thought came to my mind about this racism/discrimination issue...

I went for a long bike ride today, and stopped to get some hot chips. Bad boy KR as I have to hide the chip thing from my wife. (Un-healthy, fattening like Aussies)

Umm, whilst waiting, I ventured in next door which was an aboriginal art place.. I spoke to the lovely girl/lady who was a healthy mix of many, but as usual, felt aboriginal..

I was chatting away and happened to mention this forum and how some posters have claimed Australian's are racist and discriminate against aboriginies..

Like me, she agreed it is simply not true and she does not feel it..

Then I explained a lot of the comments appear to come from some thinking other countries are possibly racist because they disagree with whaling..

No comment from here, possibly because she may agree with it being an aboriginal, and they are allowed to kill protected species here for their own consumption, but only aboriginies..

We had a good yarn (chat), and I asked her for some brochures so I can bring them to Japan, etc.

Aboriginal art is beautiful and I thought of you Chi;-) as they had some awesome paintings and aboriginal designed cushion covers

As far as racism goes, I am defintiely not racist.. Discrimination can take many forms and doesn't have to affect race..

It can simply be a people "I like better" thing..

We do discriminate half the time without realizing it..

Can you think of one instance in the last week that you discrminated against something or someone over someone else?

For example, walk into a Sushi shop.. Three peices of Sushi on each plate..

One Sushi has beautiful vegetable decoration adorning on a beautiful hand made Kyoto style plate..

The other comes on a plastic white plate form a 100YEN shop with no dcoration..

Which plate would you choose?

Hope I don't sound drunk here.. LOL...

 

[Chi65]

. . .depends, as for the last question.
If I would have been invited by someone, who is not poor, I would have taken the first sushi after a while,
but since I am not wealthy, I probaly humbly would have choosen the other one under other circumstances. . .
But I do not see the relation to racism/discrimination for me here.

As for the Aborigines, I was always curious, and thus even without my uncle I would have liked to know more about aborigines.
I suppose, she felt quite secure for herself in that shop, so, why should she bother at the first place, if she is not attacked or discriminated for being a part Aborigine there.

As for their exceptions for hunting, if its done for their own needs (and many of them surely still cannot join into the other food support systems or end up in such a nice shop, particularly if purely Aborigine), I would not think much about it, even if I would not like some ways. They would not exploit it anyhow (this may nevertheless come in the turn of the times, I fear). If so, I would probably change my mind.

It very much resembles the native indian case, which is equally interesting for me. I have my friends there too, for long.

But coming back to the Japan case, I think, I said it somewhere already:
In the place, where I was artist in residence, there also was a japanese group coming for the opening (apart from a nice befriended crew from the art museum in Fukuoka/Hakata, all the way, yes!), with this very nice mainly (surely not purely though) Aborigine journalist. They got on particularly well with each other and also with common local visitors, and we had a very good time alltogether. I felt quite honoured, esp. since no one knew, how closely related to the Aborigines I was via my uncle.

Anyhow, also there was absolutely no racism from Japanese side at that time (end of the 90ties), which I recognised with pleasure.
But it was one of the places, that cared much for becoming known internationally and choosed the non violent art road for this, and the minds of the locals obviously benefitted very much from this!
We foreign artists were very welcomed, and also loved the locals very much. I also successfully sent more artists there.
They expanded the exchanges later and built a fine village with big exhibition spaces and a very fine open air concert stage in a nearby valley.
It must still be going on. Even my Tokyo friends from the art scene have heard about it and told me, it has become quite famous, also for hosting japanese artists.
I have never heard about any attacks on foreigners there.

We are an international orientated bunch ;-)

 

[Kyoto Returnee]

It must have been the email nigtmare here of a customer asking me to take phots 11pm at night!

Boxes and paers everywhere as you can imagine the international moving crisis..

I was trying to get at how we discrimate between anything so to speak using the Sushi thing as an example.. When Rieko makes it I usually eat it straight of the chopping board..

I think tourists in Cairns are very interested as we have many aboriinies here coming down from the otlying communities to the Cairns base hospitall A walk along the Cairns waterfront esplanade and you will meet an aborognie..

Their was discrimination here a long time ago coming from government with the 'Stolen Generatio' which was a barbaric thing of removing Aboriginal kids from their families, dressing them in clothes and giving them foster homes..

This was a major happening of which the government recently made a formal apology.. No doubt compensation will follow and so it should..

Aboriginal culture is very interesting... So many aspects of it..

Aboriginies fall into all sorts of categories of the real natives still living like they always did, aboriginal communities of which their are huge problems, the educated aboriginies, and the aboriginies that unfortunately are affected hourly by alcohol poisoning and hang around the cities, etc..

Of course, white people also fall into similar categories..

Aboriginal art is very nice and if you vist, I'm sure you will return to Germany with that special souvenir..

I'm glad to hear the aboriginals in Japan were treated well..

I've always found the Japanese artistic type to be very peace loving people.. I think in general artistic people are..

We have a new owner downstairs doing massage from home, and the smell of daily incense really puts the smeel of bacon to shame..

Violence in Japan is definitely absent most of the times which makes it such a great place for non violent people.. Possibly violent people to, after all, they don't have much to get violent with, except the whalers..

Before I forget, re:Avitar.. 'decided' means decided to return.. It's been a difficult decision deciding here or their..

Or biggest concern is Kai, he will be around 15 months I guess by the time we return..

We are having a hard time thinking if we both work full time, how on earth can we possibly put him in day care five days a week..

Not really sure how good or bad it is, but I'm guessing my job situation may be more flexible in that I can pick him up, and leave him run around at work for a few hours..

The in's and out's of knowing the not knowing's..

Interanational again, it neve ends with us here...

 

[Chi65]

Just a short message in between.

I am related to this film (and musician, and via my uncle. . .):



There is much more around at youtube, the posters speed up posting to the theme now and lately.
I hope, also japanese people see this often.
Also in relation of "assimilations" etc.

My (artist and other) japanese friends would be on the filmer's side anyhow. No doubt at all.

 

[Kyoto Returnee]

Just a short message in between.

I am related to this film (and musician, and via my uncle. . .):

That's excellent Chi..

What did your uncle participate in relation to?

Music?

Great movie indeed and made on such a small budget.

 

[Chi65]

My uncle was not directly related, but for sure with his former researches about the very same area (Pilbara) plus by giving me his book and tapes about their music for passing it on to PG some time before (1980 already), while he was in Europe for short. . .
PG promised to get in touch with him then. . .
My uncle often lived with those aborigine people, studied their language and music and lately was more often mentioned in the public, also due to some new publications together with others, also in connection with other filmers and films about the subject.
He died a few years ago in very high age, and seems to get his awards slowly after a lot of oppositions in his life.
(PG on the other hand got several awards for his actions lately, he was definitely the right one to go on, his way)

I just water the trees. . . best way, I can. Be it undercover.

But you may understand my joy of finding out, that an Aborigine honoured me by visiting my exhibition in Japan(!), being escorted by other Japanese.

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

Stay on topic.

I'd split the thread but there are posts completely off topic mixed with posts partly on topic and partly off topic.

The problem is not just in this thread. If you want to talk about something off-topic, start a new thread, but the love of all that is good, please stay on topic!!

If you can not stay on topic (not just this thread), I'll be forced to get ugly.

 

[Glenski]

I'm glad to hear the aboriginals in Japan were treated well..

Are you referring to the Ainu?

One of the first peoples to be assimilated – but not accepted as equals –were the Ainu. Traditionally hunter-gatherers, the Ainu were the first inhabitants of some outlying islands. They are currently concentrated in the northernmost island of Hokkaido. Thought to be of Caucasian origin, they make up less than 0.05 percent of Japan's population. Until the eighteenth century, Japanese relations with the Ainu – following failed attempts to conquer them – were restricted to trade and, later, intermarriage. It was only in the eighteenth century that the Japanese established their authority over the Ainu islands, then known as Ezo. The island of Ezo was turned into a Japanese vassal state and was renamed Hokkaido. This was followed by a concerted effort to integrate the Ainu into Japanese culture – including making proficiency in Japanese mandatory – which continued well into the nineteenth century. Under the Hokkaido Kyu-Dojin Protection Act of 1899, all schools were segregated with Ainu being taught Japanese history by Japanese teachers who had no consideration for Ainu culture and values. After about forty years, the educational system in that form collapsed because Ainu children slowly stopped attending school, placing them at a great disadvantage in Japanese society. Today, most Ainu fall on the lower end of the economic ladder and often perform cleaning and other menial chores for much wealthier Japanese. A segregated school system still exists in Japan, but a small shift in educational policies allows those Ainu students who are interested to continue their education.

The twentieth century saw a number of efforts by the Japanese government to revive Ainu culture, including an acknowledgement of the Ainu as an indigenous group with its own culture and language. Currently, only a small number of Ainu are active in the preservation of their culture, and the majority of the Ainu people cannot afford to devote themselves to preservation activities. Home - South Asia Human Rights Documentation Centre (SAHRDC)

intermarriage problems
atimes.com

forced off land, bullied, hiding in shame
http://www.time.com/time/asia/features/ontheroad/japan.sapporo.ainu.html

confiscation of land
You are being redirected...

 

[Kyoto Returnee]

Are you referring to the Ainu?

G'day Glenski..

No, we were talking about the Australian aboriginals..

Very remarkable story regarding Chi's uncle..

If anyone has born the brunt of sabetsu it would be them..

I'm definitely keen to learn more about eh Ainu In Hokkaido ..

 

[Chi65]

And yes, KR, we should in fact not forget the Ainu at this point!

Thanks a lot, Glenski!

Also, it would be interesting to find out about the generation of Japanese, that have partly mingled with the south american indians and others, who often come back to Japan and are in fact quite nice and more open and free in behaviour than many of the locals, so the locals themselves told me.
They don't seem to be scapegoated for this, in fact, there was a time during the last years, when many films used south american music to illustrate a wish for freedom, even if the film was in no way related to South America, confirmed to me via several japanese filmers, that I asked personally, wondering if I got it right. I did.

Insofar I am also interested in any Japanese to Australian and own aboriginal relation. I have no idea, why this should be off topic. One first has to know a few backgrounds of the mentioned "foreigners", thats the way, it usually goes, also on science forums, since not all know these backgrounds.
And it is even of particular interest in terms of Australian Japanese relations too, especially after the last Sorry from the Australian Government. . .

PS, lovely Aboriginal kids, KR!!!
Yes, many are in fact blonde as kids!

And the right one could very well also be a kid from India, which brings up another race. . .how are they seen in Japan?

 

[Kyoto Returnee]

Good point Chi..

The Ainu as we know also suffered discrimination.

I just asked Rieko, she's not sure either, neither am I In regards at what stage it all started..

Was it because of a period when the Japanese as we know today decided to settle in what is now Japan?

Similar to when the British decided to settle in Australia?

It's a terrible thing really for all these natives.. Ahh, Rieko just commented on how nice the Ainu and Okinawans are which really says something coming form an educated Japanese person..

Definitely an interesting topic, and very much on which makes it even more interesting..

I must bring some good information booklets with me to Japan as the older students used to ask me a lot about the Aussie Aboriginies..

They are many a blonde..

Little Kai has been abusing his Dad all day, and I cannot wait until his old enough to wrestle him to the ground.

We often go for a drive to a town named Yarrabah which is aboriginal land.. We go their to escape.. No whites.. We usually stop on the way in at the Aboriginal land council office to get permission.. It is respectful and they appreciate it..

We then go for a walk along the beach, usually difficult becaue once you say g'day, the conversation goes on forever and usally is very interesting..

Indian's or Aboriginies?

I am going to discriminate here a little and guess that the Aussie Aboriginies as seen as more fun(KIDDING MO);-)

Seriously, their is a lot of discrimination in Thailand against Indians, Burmese, Lao, ethnic hilltribe people, Cambodians..

The Cambodian part goes back to all the problems about the temples, Ankor Wat, etc..

I'm not really up to date, except the Japanese are not popular their on all sides..

It was the Thai and Burmese who helped the Aussie and allied forces whilst they built the railway.. Secretly smuggling food to them, resistant groups, etc.

I think the stories of help during the war are many and I'm sure you know well from Germany..

Definitely interesting opinions on all sides so far..

keep in coming guys

 

[Chi65]

I just found this by accident. . . .



(please also read the text on the right side)

Sorry, not much time at the moment, and I should not post the text myself. . .just read and see. To my knowledge, it is corrrect.

 

[Davey]

Well, it's a good thing we don't see these everyday.

I've seen them maybe twice, and the only thing that bothered me was the sound level (If I could have understand it, I think I would probably care more).

I do not think a lot of Japanese on the street really care about their words. I think it is just going ear in ear out... But I'm not sure, maybe Caster, Epigene or any other Japanese on the forum can tell us more about this.

 

[Chi65]

Point is, this would definitely not be allowed in Germany in this way. At present we even consider to ban any right wingers hereabout. We have enough and very well a responsibility also about those Japanese ones, as for our common history.

See:

Germany–Japan relations - Wikipedia
(I should in fact make a special thread about this)

I have the strange feeling, that the last exchanges between us (Japan in Germany, Germany in Japan) have revived and strengthened certain memories too.
That was NOT our aim! In contrary.

Thus we are very concerned, particularly, if certain paroles are shouted loudly, and when we hear about growing discriminations now (as we keep on having on this forum too...) towards any foreigners.

We work soo much against this ourselves nowadays!

 

[dongdong]

I experienced racism in Japan as well.
Japaneses are quite nice people, but they tend to be nice to American people only.

In Korea, there is racism too, but we don't favor one to another.
May be racism in Korea is less than Japan (My foreign friends have same opinions as mine)

 

[Davey]

I experienced racism in Japan as well.
Japaneses are quite nice people, but they tend to be nice to American people only.

You mean, Western people?

 

[tokapi]

Japanese tend to be nice to American people only.

That's why some individual arrogant Europeans feel slighted in Japan,because American presence is more dominant ..

 

[Chi65]

?? As if there have not been more than enough examples of the exact opposite. . .
My posts alone are full of that!
Some Japanese are even particularly happy, that they did not have a "dominant" american in front (and see the link about Germany and Japan).
Also they are usually friendly to Dutch people, because they have not been offensive in earlier days.
Not to mention the French, who are very beloved, and very well also the UK people, etc.

I wrote already, that Europe is one of their most favourite trip destination too, for long.
They even have special german fairs, and you may have heard about Nagasaki's Dejima, as for the Dutch. . .

Please inform yourself, befor you write the above. Its very far from the truth.

 

[Kyoto Returnee]

That's why some individual arrogant Europeans feel slighted in Japan,because American presence is more dominant ..

What a silly load of rubbish statement.

I would say that America is very lucky to have close "friends" in Europe.
Notice how the American ways are tolerated in Japan, and I mean Tolerated, where as Europeans are well respected for their cultures and products.

I think if you count successful non Japanese products within, you will notice Europe dominates..

 

[Chi65]

What a silly load of rubbish statement.

I would say that America is very lucky to have close "friends" in Europe.
Notice how the American ways are tolerated in Japan, and I mean Tolerated, where as Europeans are well respected for their cultures and products.

I think if you count successful non Japanese products within, you will notice Europe dominates..

Yes, and particularly Germany, as can also be seen in the German Japan relation wiki page. . .

There are also numerous very active Japanese German societies, who also often visit us, as much as we visit them. And as far as I know, many similar ones for other european countries too, because I personally had to make an allover european list of related ones for a festival. . .

Which means in general, that there are many according societies working in Japan, who for sure help each other's understanding on broad level, to avoid any racism in this direction and in general.

May we succed, and I mean, both sides!