Greenpeace Japan gets support from Japanese

[kame]

As for changing the attitudes of Japanese people I think it's hard. I was amazed while in Guam, that all these Japanese paid 70 dollars to go and watch whales and dolphins and were ohhing and ahhing over their beauty, but they are the same people who will tell you that Japan needs to kill them for science and they eat them. I just can't figure that one out.

I don't see why it's so hard. There are petting zoos in the US where kids cuddle pigs, sheeps, and cows, and they eat burgers like nothing happened very next day. People go watch kangaroos 'cause they are cute and they are killed in millions and most of them are eaten. What's the difference?

People can and do admire, love, and eat same animal. They do it all the time.

 

[Goldiegirl]

We know that we eat animals...we don't do it in the name of science. I don't believe tht petting zoo's are humane and wouldn't subject any animal to that environment. Just as I don't think zoo's are in the best interest of animals. The Japanese I know are just not informed on whaling and how it's done. The sheer lack of knowledge is amazing. My 8 year old nephews know where hot dogs come from...my 40 year old husband thinks Japan kills whales for science. Go Greenpeace!

 

[kame]

We know that we eat animals...we don't do it in the name of science. I don't believe tht petting zoo's are humane and wouldn't subject any animal to that environment. Just as I don't think zoo's are in the best interest of animals. The Japanese I know are just not informed on whaling and how it's done. The sheer lack of knowledge is amazing. My 8 year old nephews know where hot dogs come from...my 40 year old husband thinks Japan kills whales for science. Go Greenpeace!

My point was that people can admire and eat whales at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive.

As for scientific whaling, I can understand your argument. My answer is that if you don't like it, you should agree to compromise and let them hunt limited number of whales commercially. The irrational pressure of few anti-whaling countries is what's creating the current situation.

And again, if you want Japanese people to stop eating whales, GP is certainly not doing a good job. All they are doing well is to cultivate anti-whaling sentiment outside Japan that result in more bucks in their pocket.

 

[kame]

And, Kame, as I said before, there are many Japanese, that can read english, thus all the english pages in the internet, that are related, from all over the world. Its open and free for everyone to see. And whoever can read english, can also translate and spread around, any which way.
Without controls. . .no way back to old dictatorships in the end.

It's true that many Japanese can read English news on the Internet. In fact, many of the blogs I browsed yesterday directly referenced the news from BBC and other foreign media that reported on whaling. Japanese media also report the overseas reactions quite well. Don't just stereotypically assume there's "censorship" or bias without even reading what Japanese media are reporting (can you even read Japanese?).

Back to those blogs, many Japanese (not newspaper writers) fully understand the foreign (especially Australian) reactions and express their disgust in the way anti-whaling organizations/governments pressure Japan. If you really want to know if the current anti-whaling campaign is doing any good to change the public opinion in Japan, you should try to read these articles written by average Japanese. It's not just the government and a couple of companies fighting for whaling.

If you think it's the few hundred million dollar worth of money (which is nothing compared to other interests) that drive the Japanese whaling, there's more at stake in terms of donations for Green Peace in this campaign. They sure suck in achieving the goal to stop whaling, but as a profit maker, they are pretty damn good.

 

[Chi65]

The irrational pressure of few anti-whaling countries is what's creating the current situation.

You have obviuosly troubles in seeing see cause and effects. Which has happened before (wrong target etc.). . .
Its called scapegoating, from your side. If there would not have been an issue with effects for more than just the Japanese, others would not have invented.
Even I was baffled by the unfair scapegoatings of "your side" (which includes other pro whalers as well). . .not just to me, but I watched it happening to others too. You even target peacefull ones, thus are creating according echoes yourself.

This way you will not find the truth nor balance.

 

[Chi65]

It's true that many Japanese can read English news on the Internet. In fact, many of the blogs I browsed yesterday directly referenced the news from BBC and other foreign media that reported on whaling. Japanese media also report the overseas reactions quite well. Don't just stereotypically assume there's "censorship" or bias without even reading what Japanese media are reporting (can you even read Japanese?).

Back to those blogs, many Japanese (not newspaper writers) fully understand the foreign (especially Australian) reactions and express their disgust in the way anti-whaling organizations/governments pressure Japan. If you really want to know if the current anti-whaling campaign is doing any good to change the public opinion in Japan, you should try to read these articles written by average Japanese. It's not just the government and a couple of companies fighting for whaling.

If you think it's the few hundred million dollar worth of money (which is nothing compared to other interests) that drive the Japanese whaling, there's more at stake in terms of donations for Green Peace in this campaign. They sure suck in achieving the goal to stop whaling, but as a profit maker, they are pretty damn good.

Just look into the stick in your own eye. . .any hate towards Greenpeace is once more wrong target. . .

and you obviously only see those, who support your case. Who tells you, for example, that those bloggers are the average of the japanese? They could as well be parts of the PR machinery, you sound like one of them, for example. . .
for pay they would do anything, I know. Who pays you for this??

You must not fool a culture manager of my age and experience about marketing methods. . .I have been "backstage" more than enough.

What counts much more indeed is a sudden huge raise of other "average ones", who sign in for Greenpeace.
And I hope so for other equal forums as well. They will find out to be handled with understanding and respect, as also can be seen with the whale love wagon project.

Its not about eating habits, as you and others of the "machinery" constantly wish to show, thats such a worn out and misused term now, that it only makes me laugh. Go for Cannibalism then too, as a consequence, please, thats an even older "habit".;-)

I already said at the beginning, if it happens with respect and right proportions, I would not say anything at all. But you choose not even to search nor ask for this statement and constantly(or stubbornly) project other things, exactly like your forrunners. This is very typical for your kind and says it all once more. Its plain provable blind scapegoating from you and your kind and nothing else.

Why don't you just see the simple truth?

By the way, there is a new thread about the scientific whaling story. . .

 

[Kyoto Returnee]

Don't just stereotypically assume there's "censorship" or bias without even reading what Japanese media are reporting (can you even read Japanese?).

A few good Japanese sites with English news. No need to read Japanese, unless of course you go onto a site with Japanese text only.

The Japanese media are not reporting the truth as we saw from Junichi Sato from GREENPEACE Japan.

Please read his article entitled: THE TRUTH HITS HOME
http://www.greenpeace.org/australia/news-and-events/opinion/truths-hit-home
I think it was Chi or Sara that posted it and is really does echo the truth. Great stuff as always..

Hopefully we can save the whales from mass murder this time around.

 

[kame]

Green Peace is not a journalistic organization. Of course they want to promote that their campaign is getting support from Japan, so that they continue to draw donations from those anti-whalers outside Japan. Don't attempt to accuse media bias without even reading/watching them. As far as the bias is concerned, the US/Australian/BBC reports are far more unfair than anything I've seen.

If you have lived in Japan long enough and understand how Japanese would perceive the aggressive style of the organizations protests, it's not a matter of question that their tactics will only antagonize average Japanese.

I guess that the agressive protesting like those practiced by Sea Shepard and GP are actually popular in Western cultures. It just doesn't work in Japan and probably not in other Asian countries as well.

 

[Chi65]

You once more mix different sources, blind hate does not see right. . .

Sea shepherd is not Greenpeace!

And if Greenpeace wishes to get support from Japan, to help Japan coming back to proportions and real roots, there is nothing wrong about it.

What do you call your fake "scientific" hunting then? Non-agressive?. . .
Don't you see, that the rest of the world is already wondering about that japanese view, if not laughing? When such obviously unnecessary mass-killings appear (is THAT popular in Japan?), politeness is maybe not possible any more. It was tried other ways before, more than enough, by the way. Also by me and others here, actually. But who chooses not to read this, is no polite partner either. Facts.

And that works nowhere, as can be seen.

But the Wagon project shows very well, that japanese people are in no way "antagonizied", for example, nor the museums etc.

Sounds like wishfull thinking from the whaler's side after all, to see it upside down.

 

[kame]

J
and you obviously only see those, who support your case. Who tells you, for example, that those bloggers are the average of the japanese? They could as well be parts of the PR machinery, you sound like one of them, for example. . .
for pay they would do anything, I know. Who pays you for this??.

Please don't make false accusations without any basis. I am not paid to do this. If I were, I'd be more careful and thorough. You have no basis on your conspiracy theory either. GP people are paid pretty well to do their promotions, by the way, through your donations.

For some reason, Japanese really like blogs. Today's nikkei reports that there are 13.5 million blogs written by Japanese (over 1 in 10 Japanese). If you know how popular blogs are in Japan and read some of them (which you don't) I think it's fair to say that they capture a good part of average Japanese population. Definitely more representative of Japanese public opinions than Green Peace's press releases that you seem to like.

 

[Chi65]

Please don't make false accusations without any basis. I am not paid to do this. If I were, I'd be more careful and thorough. You have no basis on your conspiracy theory either. GP people are paid pretty well to do their promotions, by the way, through your donations.
For some reason, Japanese really like blogs. Today's nikkei reports that there are 13.5 million blogs written by Japanese (over 1 in 10 Japanese). If you know how popular blogs are in Japan and read some of them (which you don't) I think it's fair to say that they capture a good part of average Japanese population. Definitely more representative of Japanese public opinions than Green Peace's press releases that you seem to like.

I can make as many false accusations as you, by the way, and you make a lot.
I am completely independant and have not yet donated, thats as much a false claim.
Oh, yes, we have bases, who is advised by certain people and in which way, says it all, and everybody can read this. Its not me, making this up. Nor do I make up the blackouts in the TV etc. And since we know the real reasons for the killings now, it explains itself.
I don't need to read the Greenpeace press, to know, whats going on there (I can think for myself and find own sources, good man), and we had many other sources already. But we had such discussions already on another thread, bla bla.
Blogs are as popular elsewhere in the world, by the way, thats not a japanese speciality, nor representative. It may also show, how uninformed many are, by the way.
I know the rule of the press, and who is behind those advisors for it or behind.
We all know this by now.
It spreads by itself, once the can is open.

 

[kame]

I don't need to read the Greenpeace press, to know, whats going on there (I can think for myself and find own sources, good man), and we had many other sources already. But we had such discussions already on another thread, bla bla.
Blogs are as popular elsewhere in the world, by the way, thats not a japanese speciality, nor representative. It may also show, how uninformed many are, by the way.
I know the rule of the press, and who is behind those advisors for it or behind.
We all know this by now.
It spreads by itself, once the can is open.

I have been talking about how Greenpeace's tactics are perceived by Japanese people and how they are reported by Japanese media.

Your statements have been based on your limited sources that feed you what you want to hear, without any attempt to understand how real Japanese people are reacting to the recent turn of events. I am just pointing to alternative sources of information and perspective that doesn't get much attention here.

You are free to keep ignoring the fact that the current anti-whaling tactics represented by GP is NOT working. In fact, it's disgusting the majority of Japanese who were rather neutral (or you can call uninterested) to take supportive sentiment for whaling (which pro-whalers welcome).

It's in GP's best interest to perform sensational physical protests that are given free advertisement in prime-time TV, which brings in more bucks to feed the huge organization.

Well, it appears to me that the people who give money to GP don't really care about the cause either, because GP isn't really doing their job right as far as anti-whaling campaign is concerned. They just like to feel good about themselves thinking that they are helping to save whales.

 

[kame]

What do you call your fake "scientific" hunting then? Non-agressive?. . .

I think there's case for both sides with regard to "scientific" whaling. They do obtain useful data out of killing 1000 whales, but I don't think they would collect the same amount of data if they were allowed to hunt the same number of whales commercially.

I don't really care what they call the whaling operation, be it scientific or commercial. What's important is how many and which whales are hunted, and whether or not the hunting is done sustainably. In the political climate surrounding whaling over the past few decades, this was the political compromise that both sides of whaling at IWC reached, at least for the last few years.

Australia and GP seem to want to open the door to tip the balance again. It could very well result in more whales hunted than status quo. Well, GP will have more reason to bash Japan to attract more money, good for them. If governments like Australia really want to pressure Japan out of whaling, it's going to cost a lot on both sides iboth politically and econonically. Are they ready to take the heat?

 

[Chi65]

I think there's case for both sides with regard to "scientific" whaling. They do obtain useful data out of killing 1000 whales, but I don't think they would collect the same amount of data if they were allowed to hunt the same number of whales commercially.

I don't really care what they call the whaling operation, be it scientific or commercial. What's important is how many and which whales are hunted, and whether or not the hunting is done sustainably. In the political climate surrounding whaling over the past few decades, this was the political compromise that both sides of whaling at IWC reached, at least for the last few years.

Australia and GP seem to want to open the door to tip the balance again. It could very well result in more whales hunted than status quo. Well, GP will have more reason to bash Japan to attract more money, good for them. If governments like Australia really want to pressure Japan out of whaling, it's going to cost a lot on both sides iboth politically and econonically. Are they ready to take the heat?

Well, we have our informations now about "scientific whaling", and that its not necessary to kill any whale for this, and this is very well important and out of balance, if you ignore it or not. And it is the main reason for protests worldwide. You are very fixed on GP, shall I give you some more names??

For example, what WDCS is doing? Or other alike and cooperative working specialists?
I may come to it piece by piece. It is partly already mentioned before.
They also have their ways, also to the japanese press, as well as to the international one, with very inside informations, because attending the IWC activities with specialists, and also spread the informations, maybe even more vivid and authorized than GP.
And they have very detailed reports, that confirm a lot! For example, that there are in fact enough ways without killings. GP and others are not making anything up at all. Its clearly a fake label from Japan.

It has little to do with Australia in the end, thats another fixed idea, as becomes more and more clear.
You are hooking onto the wrong parts. The problem is Japan itself and it's (most probably suggested, by someone, that we know already) scapegoatings (for which you are a good example).
But facts are facts, particularly real scientific ones. . .thus not limited sources at all.

Its really not difficult to get the whole picture, slowly, but surely.

The rest is unimportant, because the wheels are turning aready.
I feel very sorry for Japan's reputation.

And siding with Bush now does not make it better at all. . .

 

[kame]

You are very fixed on GP, shall I give you some more names??

I thought this was a thread about Greenpeace. If not, please make your thread titles clearer in the future.

 

[Goldiegirl]

I hate the whole culture issue as well as the scientific issue that Japanese claim. It is not preserving Japanese culture, just as they don't walk around in Kimono as daily clothing anymore. There is not a cultural need for whaling in Japan on a commercial level. It's just because they can get away with it.

 

[Chi65]

I thought this was a thread about Greenpeace. If not, please make your thread titles clearer in the future.

It was not "my thread", you often have problems with readings. . .

And the other parts were very well GP related, because they have the same informations for sure, thus.

I hate the whole culture issue as well as the scientific issue that Japanese claim. It is not preserving Japanese culture, just as they don't walk around in Kimono as daily clothing anymore. There is not a cultural need for whaling in Japan on a commercial level. It's just because they can get away with it.

Its a blown up Promotion trick, Goldiegirl. Once you can see the real puppetmasters, its obvious, right.
Its a kind of misuse, feels as bad to me.

Good night! xx

 

[Kyoto Returnee]

Green Peace is not a journalistic organization. Of course they want to promote that their campaign is getting support from Japan, so that they continue to draw donations from those anti-whalers outside Japan. Don't attempt to accuse media bias without even reading/watching them. As far as the bias is concerned, the US/Australian/BBC reports are far more unfair than anything I've seen.

If you have lived in Japan long enough and understand how Japanese would perceive the aggressive style of the organizations protests, it's not a matter of question that their tactics will only antagonize average Japanese.

I guess that the agressive protesting like those practiced by Sea Shepard and GP are actually popular in Western cultures. It just doesn't work in Japan and probably not in other Asian countries as well.

I guess what you are saying is that it is a never ending argument and let the judge decide.

You owe me $5.00;-)

 

[Chi65]

Or the UN etc.. . . . . . .

 

[Taiko666]

especially after the recent outrageous Sea Shepard's act of terrorism.

It amazes me that some people equate two guys in a dinghy delivering a letter to a whaling ship 'terrorism'. Illegal boarding, assault even, but not terrorism. It gives the impression that you're far too divorced from reality to have any credible opinions on this issue.

 

[Chi65]

He just repeats what the press in Japan is also saying, sad, isn't it? There are many out of proportion at the moment. . .

 

[Kyoto Returnee]

It amazes me that some people equate two guys in a dinghy delivering a letter to a whaling ship 'terrorism'. Illegal boarding, assault even, but not terrorism. It gives the impression that you're far too divorced from reality to have any credible opinions on this issue.

Well said . . . . . .

It's not as if the whalers wouldn't have expected something down those lines.

It's turned into a game the whole thing..

 

[Sarapva]

I think harpooning, shooting, cutting, drowning and dragging with ropes are more of an act of terrorism than jumping aboard a ship and not leaving.

 

[Chi65]

. . .and they can't talk us into the opposite, particularly not violently. . .its getting very absurd at some places.
...also the way they feed their own children with poison and even wish to extend that.
What worries me is their minds and children.

 

[centrajapan]

the culutre impiralists and the imperialistic vegeterians are trying to set a new world order. eating whales is no worse or better than eating pigs and cows. infact it is much more energy efficient and ecological sound to eat whales than cows and from a buddhist perspective it is better to kill 1 big animal tha 10 small. there is not one reason to why western imperialists and other closet racists should deny japanese from eating whale meat.