Greatest Japanese contribution to the world ? OFFTOPICabout kamikaze

[Zauriel]

Why were bushido, katanas, kimonos, cherry blossoms, Japanese words (Tsunami, kamikaze, etc) and tea ceremony /flower arrangement not included in the poll?

I've voted for robots, anime and manga, food and electronics

 

[Maciamo]

Why were bushido, katanas, kimonos, cherry blossoms, Japanese words (Tsunami, kamikaze, etc) and tea ceremony/flower arrangement not included in the poll?

They are not really contributions to the world. Cherry blossoms ? They are not originally from Japan. Japanese words ? Then it could be said for any language, usually to a greater extent (Japanese words in English almost only refer to Japanese cultural things, except tsunami). The rest are cultural stuff, mostly limited to Japan or a few afficionados (like here ;-) )

 

[Zauriel]

They are not really contributions to the world. Cherry blossoms ? They are not originally from Japan. Japanese words ? Then it could be said for any language, usually to a greater extent (Japanese words in English almost only refer to Japanese cultural things, except tsunami). The rest are cultural stuff, mostly limited to Japan or a few afficionados (like here ;-) )

Like tsunami, kamikaze is not limited to a cultural concept. Kamikaze refers to suicidal attackers or suicide attacks. When you commit suicide to achieve victory, you call it a kamikaze attack. And a person who commits suicide in order to achieve victory is called kamikaze. Sept. 11 attacks were certainly kamikaze-style.

If Kamikaze is only confined to Japanese cultural references, then why are the media referring to Muslim terrorists, etc as kamikazes? I heard of kamikaze attacks, kamikaze bombings, kamikaze pilots, etc.

 

[Maciamo]

If Kamikaze is only confined to Japanese cultural references, then why are the media referring to Muslim terrorists, etc as kamikazes? I heard of kamikaze attacks, kamikaze bombings, kamikaze pilots, etc.

I personally don't use this word except for referring to the WWII events. Maybe the American media use more commonly the word kamikaze. :?

The word "kamikaze" when it was used by the Japanese in WWII referred to the failed 13th century invasion of Japan by Kubilai Khan, whose fleet was destroyed by a typhoon. The Japanese called it "kamikaze", i.e. "holy winds" that protected Japan from the foreign invador. It is in this sense that the word was used by the Japanese airforce attacking US ships toward the end of WWII. They were seen as a "divine power protecting Japan". So it does not even refer to 'suicide attack' but just to protecting Japan (even if they were only bombing the US ships and not crashing into them). That is why it is mistaken to use the word "kamikaze" in the sense of "suicide attack".

Anyway, that's still not what I call a major "contribution" to the world.

 

[Hiroyuki Nagashima]

I personally don't use this word except for referring to the WWII events. Maybe the American media use more commonly the word kamikaze. :?

☝

Although it is not related.
My uncle was a "Kamikaze suicide squad member."
He was 20 years old .

 

[Zauriel]

I personally don't use this word except for referring to the WWII events. Maybe the American media use more commonly the word kamikaze. :?

The word "kamikaze" when it was used by the Japanese in WWII referred to the failed 13th century invasion of Japan by Kubilai Khan, whose fleet was destroyed by a typhoon. The Japanese called it "kamikaze", i.e. "holy winds" that protected Japan from the foreign invador. It is in this sense that the word was used by the Japanese airforce attacking US ships toward the end of WWII. They were seen as a "divine power protecting Japan". So it does not even refer to 'suicide attack' but just to protecting Japan (even if they were only bombing the US ships and not crashing into them). That is why it is mistaken to use the word "kamikaze" in the sense of "suicide attack".
.

Tell that to the Merriam webster dictionary and American Heritage dictionary.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=kamikaze&x=18&y=13
Main Entry: kamikaze
Function: adjective
1 : of, relating to, being, or resembling a kamikaze
2 : having or showing reckless disregard for safety or personal welfare

Main Entry: 1ka·mi·ka·ze
Pronunciation: "kä-mi-'kä-zE
Function: noun
Etymology: Japanese, literally, divine wind
1 : a member of a Japanese air attack corps in World War II assigned to make a suicidal crash on a target (as a ship)
2 : an airplane containing explosives to be flown in a suicide crash on a target

Homework Help and Textbook Solutions | bartleby

kamikaze

SYLLABICATION: ka·mi·ka·ze
PRONUNCIATION: käm-käz
NOUN: 1. A Japanese pilot trained in World War II to make a suicidal crash attack, especially upon a ship. 2. An airplane loaded with explosives to be piloted in a suicide attack. 3. Slang An extremely reckless person who seems to court death. ADJECTIVE: 1. Of or relating to a suicidal air attack: a kamikaze mission. 2. Slang So reckless in behavior or actions as to be suicidal: kamikaze hot rodders.
ETYMOLOGY: Japanese, divine wind (from the legendary name of a typhoon that in 1281 saved Japan by destroying the Mongol navy) : kami, divine + kaze, wind.

 

[Maciamo]

Zauriel, what you seem not to understand is that the usage of the "adjective" kamikaze in English has taken this meaning because of ignorant people using it this way. It's not because a word's definition is now found in the dictionary that it's original and correct meaning is this one.

My Oxford dictionary says :"n. (in the Second World War) a Japanese aircraft loaded with explosives and making a deliberate suicidal crash on an enemy target"

This definition, even from the respected Oxford dictionary, is not complete, as the term also refers to the typhoon that destroyed the invading Chinese/Mongolian fleet in the 13th century. Just to show that dictionaries are not encyclopedia, and that most ordinary people (including some journalists) do not have an encyclopedic knowledge. Knowing more than average about Japan's culture and history, I felt it necessary to rectify your mistaken view - because this site is dedicated to Japan!

 

[Zauriel]

Maciamo-san, I am afraid your Oxford version is a bit outdated.

Now the word "kamikaze" has been accepted as an adjective in the Oxford dictionary website.

kamikaze
/kammikaazi/
• adjective: reckless or potentially self-destructive.

— ORIGIN from the Japanese words for ﾂ'divinity' and ﾂ'wind', originally referring to the gale that, in Japanese tradition, destroyed the fleet of invading Mongols in 1281.

Oxford Languages | The Home of Language Data

 

[mizer]

Maciamo: I can appreciate the concern for where the word originated from and what was it's first meaning... but, as words get absorbed into the languages (and other languages, lol), the meaning can change... Maybe you would call it 'distortion' of the meaning, but it's all part of the evolution of language and what makes language so interesting! I mean, there are lots of words in English that are a long way from their original roots now - for examples, 'sinister' and 'dexterity' which originally came from Latin for 'left' and 'right'!

Personally, when I think of 'kamikaze' I always think first of the plane pilots and the association in my mind derives from that. At the moment (if it's any consolation!), the word doesn't seem to be used that much just to describe 'reckless', but for if someone is on a hopeless mission that is doomed to failure with really serious consequences for them.

Hope that makes sense!

 

[Hiroyuki Nagashima]

The origin of a word of kamikaze is "a clean wind from Heaven."
It originates in an old myth of Japan.
神風 - Wikipedia

"Oxford dictionary" is not exact.

A kamikaze special attack is not only an airplane.
My uncle was the crew of "窶ｰﾃｱ窶弖 (KAITEN)."

 

[Maciamo]

Maciamo: I can appreciate the concern for where the word originated from and what was it's first meaning... but, as words get absorbed into the languages (and other languages, lol), the meaning can change... Maybe you would call it 'distortion' of the meaning, but it's all part of the evolution of language and what makes language so interesting! I mean, there are lots of words in English that are a long way from their original roots now - for examples, 'sinister' and 'dexterity' which originally came from Latin for 'left' and 'right'!

I know that. I have observed such distortion from Latin even in French or Italian. But it's been hundreds and hundreds of years since the words 'sinister' and 'dexterity' have changed meaning in French and English. Note that in Italian it is still "destra" and "sinistra" to say "right" and "left", but "desterita" for "dexterity" and sinistro for sinister. Not the same word, so.

As for kamikaze, the word has only come into English and other languages since 1945, and there is no reason such a distortion should happen, especially that people nowadays are much better education than in the past centuries since Roman times.

But mind you, most of the foreign words in Japanese have distorted pronuciation, and quite a few have distorted meanings too. My favouite is "zubon" (trousers) from French "jupon" (briefs). I wrote about these words here.

 

[mizer]

I don't mean exactly to disagree with you
I guess, also, with more mass communication around the world, meaning of different words gets distorted much more quickly than in past times.
In fact, I always associated 'kamikaze' with plane because I learned in history about such, although also I knew of original meaning... I suppose you could say I would use the word as 'simile' maybe, but not with an actual different meaning. So, I might say 'it's as though he was on a kamikaze mission!'
Oh, people misuse different languages all of the time! It's like trying to stop the tide coming in!
Peace

 

[FireyRei]

"Zauriel, what you seem not to understand is that the usage of the "adjective" kamikaze in English has taken this meaning because of ignorant people using it this way."

Fook me backwards, Japan the land of taking so many foreign things, twisting and distorting them, using and abusing and you say that...

Me say 'Ignorance must be bliss for you too G'.

 

[mizer]

Dammit, I was trying to say that kind of thing, but be nice!!!
Because I am nice. Really...

 

[Zauriel]

I know that. I have observed such distortion from Latin even in French or Italian. But it's been hundreds and hundreds of years since the words 'sinister' and 'dexterity' have changed meaning in French and English. Note that in Italian it is still "destra" and "sinistra" to say "right" and "left", but "desterita" for "dexterity" and sinistro for sinister. Not the same word, so.

As for kamikaze, the word has only come into English and other languages since 1945, and there is no reason such a distortion should happen, especially that people nowadays are much better education than in the past centuries since Roman times.

Well, what about the word byzantine? Byzantine is originally the name of a dead empire with complex and troubled political intrigue. But its meaning was distorted and it became synonymous with intricate and complicated politics. Besides Byzantine comes into existence long after the Roman times.

If Byzantine can be distorted, so can the word kamikaze.

 

[Zauriel]

What about the word "sabotage"?

It is a distorted word comes straight from the French verb "saboter" meaning to clatter with sabots (wooden shoes), or to walk noisily.

During the Industrial Revolution, when the workers feared they were going to be replaced by machines, they threw their shoes into the machines to destroy them.

Sabotage's original meaning is distorted and it ony occured in the 19th century.

 

[mizer]

oooh, I didn't know that! Thanks Zauriel!

 

[Zauriel]

oooh, I didn't know that! Thanks Zauriel!

You're welcome, Mizer.