Grammar

[Sultan]

Ah, yes. I forgot 食べる/飲む.

"Yes" as confirmation that いただく for もらう is 謙譲語, or that いただく for 食べる・飲む is 丁重語, or both?
I still don't understand how させていただく is 丁重語, because to me it seems as getting a favor done from superior would be 謙譲語.
Let's assume two following situations:
A: Boss let me use his car and I tell about it my colleague.
B: My colleague let me use his car and I tell my boss about it .
Talking with boss (B) I should use 丁重語 and when talking about boss (A) I should use 謙譲語, right?
So I say as following in these situations?
A: 部長に車を使わせてもらいました。
B: 同僚に車を使わせていただきました。

Yes. You'd better think させていただく is a set phrase.

Yeah, I learned させて＋いただきたい・もらいたい・ほしい

Yes. I pointed out that there is no reason to list 存じておる specifically since it's just a variation of 存じる/存ず. You don't list 参っておる, いただいておる or いたしておる, right?

Yes, I don't list, it's just as was given in textbook

There were no 参っておる, いただいておる or いたしておる unlike 存じておる.

お/ご～いたす is both 丁重語 and 謙譲語, but ～いたす without お/ご for -suru verbs is 丁重語, as I wrote. For instance, お待ちいたします is valid both as 丁重語 and 謙譲語, but 待ちいたします is invalid since 待つ is not a -suru verb. 御社がご発展いたしますようお祈り申し上げます "I hope you(= your company) make progress" is no problem, but you can't use ご発展いたす for your in-group members since this is also 謙譲語. You need to use 発展いたす (e.g. 弊社はこれ以降発展いたしました "we made progress after that") in this case. Thus, you can consider that this is a variation of いたす.

I see, SV+いたす is 丁重語, お・ご～する is 謙譲語, and お・ご～いたす is both.
UPD:
Wait, I thought it would be 尊敬語 for 御社, ご発展になりまように?

課長、今度の工場見学には私も一緒に行かせていただきたいんですが、いいでしょうか。
"Factory tour, inspection, observation or what"?

A「あした、柔道の試合にでるんです。」
B「そうですか。自分の力が出るといいですね。」
"Feel energetic"?

 

[Toritoribe]

"Yes" as confirmation that いただく for もらう is 謙譲語, or that いただく for 食べる・飲む is 丁重語, or both?

Both.

I still don't understand how させていただく is 丁重語, because to me it seems as getting a favor done from superior would be 謙譲語.

You are misunderstanding the usage of ～させていただく I'm referring to. This is not the causative. Have you ever heard expressions such like お先に入らせていただきました? Actually, the listener or third person didn't have/make/let the speaker enter in this case. This is 丁重語 of 先に入りました.

Let's assume two following situations:
A: Boss let me use his car and I tell about it my colleague.
B: My colleague let me use his car and I tell my boss about it .
Talking with boss (B) I should use 丁重語 and when talking about boss (A) I should use 謙譲語, right?
So I say as following in these situations?
A: 部長に車を使わせてもらいました。
B: 同僚に車を使わせていただきました。

A is valid. You can use non-polite form also here (e.g. 部長に車を使わせてもらったんだ).
B is invalid since you don't need to show respect to your colleague. Notice that いただきました is 謙譲語 here.

Wait, I thought it would be 尊敬語 for 御社, ご発展になりまように?

Oops! Yeah, it should be 御社がご発展なさいますようお祈り申し上げます. I should have used another example such like 御社にご提供いたします. Sorry.

課長、今度の工場見学には私も一緒に行かせていただきたいんですが、いいでしょうか。
"Factory tour, inspection, observation or what"?

The first one. 見学 doesn't have a nuance of inspection or observation.

A「あした、柔道の試合にでるんです。」
B「そうですか。自分の力が出るといいですね。」
"Feel energetic"?

"To show your ability", "to exert all your power" or like that.

 

[Sultan]

You are misunderstanding the usage of ～させていただく I'm referring to. This is not the causative. Have you ever heard expressions such like お先に入らせていただきました? Actually, the listener or third person didn't have/make/let the speaker enter in this case. This is 丁重語 of 先に入りました.

I see, I don't remember hearing that, but there was 出張のため、明日の会議は欠席させていただきます。It has the same meaning and is 丁重語, too, right?

A is valid. You can use non-polite form also here (e.g. 部長に車を使わせてもらったんだ).
B is invalid since you don't need to show respect to your colleague. Notice that いただきました is 謙譲語 here.

For (A), 部長に車を使わせていただきました。is valid, too?

Oops! Yeah, it should be 御社がご発展なさいますようお祈り申し上げます. I should have used another example such like 御社にご提供いたします. Sorry.

I see.

The first one. 見学 doesn't have a nuance of inspection or observation.

Got it

"To show your ability", "to exert all your power" or like that.

I see, thank you.

 

[Sultan]

自分さえよければ、それでいいのですか。
Does it mean "Is it okay as long as you yourself are fine with it?"?

 

[mdchachi]

自分さえよければ、それでいいのですか。
Does it mean "Is it okay as long as you yourself are fine with it?"?

I would read this as if the speaker is accusing the other person of being selfish or not considering others. Something like "You think it's ok even if only you are fine?"

 

[Toritoribe]

I don't remember hearing that, but there was 出張のため、明日の会議は欠席させていただきます。It has the same meaning and is 丁重語, too, right?

Right. That's exactly the same usage of ～させていただく.

For (A), 部長に車を使わせていただきました。is valid, too?

Hmm, no, it sounds too polite when talking to your colleague. There is no problem with 部長に車を使う許可を頂いたんだ, so it's probably because of the humble nuance of ～させていただく.

 

[Sultan]

I would read this as if the speaker is accusing the other person of being selfish or not considering others. Something like "You think it's ok even if only you are fine?"

Well, I guessed it was something criticizing, I just wanted to clearly understand the sentence. Thanks, that's a good variant of translation

 

[Sultan]

Hmm, no, it sounds too polite when talking to your colleague. There is no problem with 部長に車を使う許可を頂いたんだ, so it's probably because of the humble nuance of ～させていただく.

Is 形体 too polite when talking to your colleague? Do Japanese colleagues go by 普通体?
(I hope I used right terms but just in case I mean do they say する、した、だ and not します、しました、です?)

 

[Toritoribe]

Do you mean 敬語体 or 敬語形 by 形体? If so, yes, but notice that します/しました or です/でした is the polite form (丁寧形), not 尊敬語, so 許可を頂きました can be used for older or not-so-close colleagues.

 

[Sultan]

Do you mean 敬語体 or 敬語形 by 形体? If so, yes, but notice that します/しました or です/でした is the polite form (丁寧形), not 尊敬語, so 許可を頂きました can be used for older or not-so-close colleagues.

I don't know what are 敬語体 or 敬語形.
I just guessed 形体 is for します・です and 普通体 is する・（だ）
So as I understand close age colleagues use 普通体

 

[Toritoribe]

Then, where did you get the term 形体 from? Is that your own translation? Also, do you understand the difference between 体 and 形, as in 普通形 and 普通体?
敬語体 or 敬語形 means "honorific (form/verb)". です/ます is 丁寧形/丁寧体 (polite form), as I wrote.

 

[Sultan]

Then, where did you get the term 形体 from? Is that your own translation? Also, do you understand the difference between 体 and 形, as in 普通形 and 普通体?
敬語体 or 敬語形 means "honorific (form/verb)". です/ます is 丁寧形/丁寧体 (polite form), as I wrote.

No, I don't know the difference between 体 and 形, as in 普通形 and 普通体.
Oh my God, I'm so sorry. I meant 敬体 not 形体, I didn't notice when I typed wrong kanji for けいたい, lol.
Somehow, someway or another, not sure now, I saw/found words 敬体, 普通体 and 敬体. I assumed that first one is です・ます and last two are same and だ・する.
Is します not 敬体 then? As in 今日は勉強します。母は買い物に行きます。

 

[Sultan]

I think it (underlined red) was mistranslated and it should be "in the position of", is it so?
I guess all those meanings may be translated "as a/the"?
As government-sponsored international student, as the representative, as vase,
as producing area?

 

[Sultan]

There is kind of complicated sentence, or at least it seemed so:
ある人がつまらないと思うことが、ほかの人にとっては面白いということがある。
[ある人がつまらないと思う][こと][が]、[ほかの人にとっては][面白い][ということがある]。?
Sometimes things one finds boring, are interesting for others?
There are things boring for some people but interesting to others?
Could please explain this sentence?

 

[mdchachi]

It looks like you understood it already. Which part is not clear?

 

[Toritoribe]

No, I don't know the difference between 体 and 形, as in 普通形 and 普通体.
Oh my God, I'm so sorry. I meant 敬体 not 形体, I didn't notice when I typed wrong kanji for けいたい, lol.
Somehow, someway or another, not sure now, I saw/found words 敬体, 普通体 and 敬体. I assumed that first one is です・ます and last two are same and だ・する.
Is します not 敬体 then? As in 今日は勉強します。母は買い物に行きます。

形 means "form", thus, it refers to a conjugation form of verbs, adjectives or copula, whereas 体 is "style", thus, it's the writing or speaking style of sentences. For instance, 使います is 使うの丁寧形 "the polite form of the verb 使う", and 同僚が車を使いました is 丁寧体で書かれた文章 "a sentence written in polite style".
敬体 is sentences written/spoken in polite or honorific forms, including humble forms. Thus, it refers to both 尊敬体 and 丁寧体.
As for your last question, 今日は勉強します。 and 母は買い物に行きます。 are both 敬体, but します is 丁寧形.

I think it (underlined red) was mistranslated and it should be "in the position of", is it so?

"From the viewpoint of " and "in the position of" are both can be correct. The translation differs depending on the context, after all.

I guess all those meanings may be translated "as a/the"?
As government-sponsored international student, as the representative, as vase,
as producing area?

Yes.

 

[Sultan]

It looks like you understood it already. Which part is not clear?

ある人がつまらないと思うことが、ほかの人にとっては面白いということがある。
This double ことが is confusing. I don't how this sentence is constructed.
Literally, seems like "The thing one thinks is boring is, there is thing called interesting for others"

 

[Sultan]

形 means "form", thus, it refers to a conjugation form of verbs, adjectives or copula, whereas 体 is "style", thus, it's the writing or speaking style of sentences. For instance, 使います is 使うの丁寧形 "the polite form of the verb 使う", and 同僚が車を使いました is 丁寧体で書かれた文章 "a sentence written in polite style".
敬体 is sentences written/spoken in polite or honorific forms, including humble forms. Thus, it refers to both 尊敬体 and 丁寧体.
As for your last question, 今日は勉強します。 and 母は買い物に行きます。 are both 敬体, but します is 丁寧形.

I understand now, thank you.

"From the viewpoint of " and "in the position of" are both can be correct. The translation differs depending on the context, after all.

I mean, in this context, "from the viewpoint of" seems to be wrong. It's different from all other meanings, there's no example for such translation and I assume として possibly doesn't have such meaning. Thus, I concluded there could have been wrong translation. I get it that it can be translated both ways depending on context, but in in this case it seems the "in the position of" should be the one.

 

[Majestic]

It might be helpful for you to search in this forum for entries on 「という」or 「ということ」. I think this is a fairly common source of confusion, and one that has been talked about at some length in other threads.

 

[Toritoribe]

I mean, in this context, "from the viewpoint of" seems to be wrong. It's different from all other meanings, there's no example for such translation and I assume として possibly doesn't have such meaning. Thus, I concluded there could have been wrong translation. I get it that it can be translated both ways depending on context, but in in this case it seems the "in the position of" should be the one.

The explanation doesn't say that those translations correspond to each example sentences above respectively. "From the view point of" is just one of the meanings of ～として whether an example of it is written there or not.

ある人がつまらないと思うことが、ほかの人にとっては面白いということがある。
This double ことが is confusing. I don't how this sentence is constructed.
Literally, seems like "The thing one thinks is boring is, there is thing called interesting for others"

The first こと is just a noun, meaning "thing(s)". The second こと is a pronoun, and という shows that the preceding clause (the whole preceding clause ある人がつまらないと思うことが、ほかの人にとっては面白い in that sentence) is the contents of こと. ～ということがある works as a set phrase "Sometimes ~" as a result, as in your second interpretation.
How about 「ある人がつまらないと思う映画が、ほかの人にとっては面白い」ということがある? The structure is clearer in this sentence, right?

 

[Sultan]

The first こと is just a noun, meaning "thing(s)". The second こと is a pronoun, and という shows that the preceding clause (the whole preceding clause ある人がつまらないと思うことが、ほかの人にとっては面白い in that sentence) is the contents of こと. ～ということがある works as a set phrase "Sometimes ~" as a result, as in your second interpretation.

I see, does the first interpretation work, too?

How about 「ある人がつまらないと思う映画が、ほかの人にとっては面白い」ということがある? The structure is clearer in this sentence, right?

Yes, it is.

 

[Toritoribe]

Ah, sorry, I meant your first interpretation; "Sometimes things one finds boring are interesting for others". The meaning is almost the same, but the structure of your second translation is for ある人にとってはつまらないけど、ほかの人にとっては面白いということがある.

 

[Sultan]

Ah, sorry, I meant your first interpretation; "Sometimes things one finds boring are interesting for others". The meaning is almost the same, but the structure of your second translation is for ある人にとってはつまらないけど、ほかの人にとっては面白いということがある.

I see, thanks. What's the difference between 敬体 an 敬語?

 

[Toritoribe]

敬語 can refer to all the terms; 尊敬語, 謙譲語, 丁重語, 丁寧語, 美化語 or 敬体.

 

[Sultan]

What does ような in 皆が心配しているような問題点は、もう解決したのではないだろうか。mean?
I know ような means resemblance, similarity, showing example, but the structure of this very sentence just doesn't fit with my knowledge and comprehension.
I guess this sentence might mean "Isn't problem similar to the one at issue already solved" but my guts tell me the sentence doesn't fit such interpretation. Like, it feels like it should be something like 皆が心配している問題点のような問題は...