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General question, not so much translation or grammar

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Torebaa

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I was in Japan for about 10 days looking at various places. I have been studying Japanese for about two years now and I was just wondering...

When two people speak direct / common / friend (however you call learned to call the form) Japanese, it seems to go so fast that it almost sounds...well I dunno, like my ear can't catch it?

So I'm wondering, in college classes (3rd year level) it is stressed we use distal / masu form and honorific / polite forms...so how do I go about 'getting an ear' if you will, for more "common" Japanese.

I'm also curious, as in another thread, on how reading Manga would help this.

Thanks anyone.
 
Japanese sounds rapid-fire....until a word that you know comes by. That word comes across at something near normal speed, then things resume their normal blistering pace. It's a common experience to everyone, I would guess.

Third year and still having the desu-masu forms stressed? That strikes me as odd. Failing to get students used to plain forms is doing them a disservice.
 
The reason you can't pick up on casual speech is probably because you a) aren't familiar with a lot of the slang or phrases that people use in casual conversation, and b) just aren't used to hearing it. Polite forms are a good habit to get into, but it's definately not what you'll hear the most walking down the street or standing at the station, listening to people as they pass by.

If you're looking for listening practice, manga are pretty much worthless. Aside from the fact that it's reading, and not listening, manga is generally filled with all kinds of vocabulary that are completely useless for daily use. Pretty much the same thing goes for anime and even a lot of live action shows, but at least you can actually listen to them. I would say the best listening practice would be to actually hold a conversation with someone, but if you want to be a passive observer, Japanese radio shows, drama, or movies can be a good place to start; just pick the content carefully.
 
So then, how do you learn slang words / phrases since most books that teach that are incorrect regarding a translation or the grammar of it?

Is it just something you have to learn through experience?
 
Get appropriate books for slang, and watch some tv shows with slang. For starters you may wanna try the book "making out in Japanese". Second, you may wanna try watching variety shows that cater to youngsters. Those shows usually have full captions (or near full captions). If you wanna learn it quick, you might wanna consult a vocab list of "wakamono kotoba". Just google that term in any Japanese engine (kanji or course, not the romaji) and you should find some very good sites in Japanese that explain common slang.
 
Nevermind slang for the moment. You need to get up to speed on speech using plain verb forms first. That will clear away most of the fog for you.
 
In other words, you do pretty well in a formal situations...can largely understand the news and such, it's only conversational speech that still sounds rapid fire ? That's a little odd, but I'd have to agree with nice gaijin that perhaps it is a case of being unaware of what you're supposed to be looking for. If you let us know in a little more detail your specific problem I think we can try to be of better help.

You may have some of the same issue I do of getting most structured 'newcast' type communication in real time but still faltering over too many natural language phrases and expressions. When your ear has become fluently attuned to business or formal Japanese, though, it should only take a relatively small effort to get clued in on the differences in verb endings,
slang, colloquialisms, or plain friendly conversational ways of speaking.
 
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I'm very thankful for all the attention I am getting with this topic...thank you.

Ultimately, I really do want to become fluent in Japanese, and I know that takes a lot of time...and having only just become a third year part 2 student of the language I know I'm not to expect too much.

But when I was in Japan I just, well let me try to explain this as best I can.

(For anyone who uses the Japanese: The Spoken Language by Jorden and Noda this might make more sense)

I know about common / direct form, and I understand them, and I know how to grammatically use them. But when I was in Japan, people (mostly teens/ young adults since that's my age group) spoke really direct, and really fast with it. And sometimes I could catch words I knew and recognized, but I would be so, I dunno, caught up in listening that I would only think about what I could hear and not make much sense out of the rest of the sentence? Does that make any sense to you?

In class we're always given situations of being co-workers or talking to a teacher, so I'm always hearing and using distal and honorific forms. That is just how the class is structured since it's better to be more polite to someone Japan than rude.

On top of that, ever since I started learning Japanese in college, we've just gone through the Jordan/Noda series and memorized the example conversations. I understand this is helpful, and I know it's to make grammar clear-er, but when I am not saying something that is similar to one of these memorized conversations, I can't help but just think and doubt myself as to if what I just said was coherent. And if I say something and the reply isn't similar to what was memorized, then I wonder if what I think the translation is, is really correct either.

This probably makes no sense, it's just a little frustrating trying to explain my problem when I've been doing what the sensei and course plan say to and I can't help but feel I can't really speak the language.
 
Torebaa said:
(For anyone who uses the Japanese: The Spoken Language by Jorden and Noda this might make more sense)
Click to expand...
ARGH! My eyes burn!!!

I used this series in college as well. Which book are you on? Do you make jokes about inept Tanka-san as much as we used to? Or the budding romance than never went anywhere? Ah...the memories...

Just remember that as with any textbook, it is nothing more than a starting point. A common point of reference if you will for learning the language. It is an important part of learning, but as you have already noticed, people in actual usuage do not follow the Jordan core conversations.

What you really need is more practice. It's like any other skill: you can understand it on an academic level, but the only way to really acquire it is to continue practicing and practicing.

Watch japanese TV if you can. Make language exchange partners. Make friends. Practice reading and writing (which the Jordan method is hideously poor at teaching).

Good luck!
 
Mikawa Ossan said:
What you really need is more practice. It's like any other skill: you can understand it on an academic level, but the only way to really acquire it is to continue practicing and practicing.
Click to expand...
Let me chime in in agreement with Mikawa Ossan, as this is the position that I'm in at the moment. I'm learning a lot but don't currently have enough opportunities to really use what I learn. I know the material but I have to use it to burn it into my head. Definitely practice as much as you can!
 
あらゆるチャンスを利用して勉強するしかないですね
 
Elizabeth said:
あらゆるチャンスを利用して勉強するしかないですね
Click to expand...

ちなみに、「チャンスを生かして」って頻繁に使われて、いい響きがあると思います。
 
Elizabeth said:
あらゆるチャンスを利用して勉強するしかないですね
Click to expand...
そうですね。僕の勉強時間が足りないと思っているので、もっと勉強しようと思います。
 
勉強すればするほど、もっと上手になるでしょう？
 
そのとおりですね。それに、練習も大切ですね。
 
J44xm said:
そのとおりですね。それに、練習も大切ですね。
Click to expand...
勉強ばかりして、頭がちょっとおかしくなる（変になる）でしょうね。無理な勉強はするな！

でも、J44xm さんの場合には、日本語の勉強をするために、日本まで行って、良くがんばったら、ご両親ももう少し日本にいられるように援助してあげるでしょうかな。。。

Torebaa said:
勉強すればするほど、もっと上手になるでしょう？
Click to expand...
そうなんでしょうね。その上、すればするほど、難しくなるでしょう。
 
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It sucks the first time you relize that all the masu forms you learned in Japanese class really aren't used "much" in everyday speech. I mean you do need it, but man it would have been nice if my teachers would have explained how real Japanese works. LOL

I always tell people that ask me about learning Japanese to live, eat, sleep, drink, the language!! When i first started studying Japanese I started watching Japanese TV. Didn't have a %$@#@ clue what was being said but it really helped me get used to hearing Japanese at full speed. After a while (once you start to build some vocabulary) things start to click and you start to understand. Load up that iPod with Japanese language music, podcasts, lessons, etc...
 
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