Curvy women may be a clever bet

[Tokis-Phoenix]

"Women with curvy figures are likely to be brighter than waif-like counterparts and may well produce more intelligent offspring, a US study suggests.

Researchers studied 16,000 women and girls and found the more voluptuous performed better on cognitive tests - as did their children.

The bigger the difference between a woman's waist and hips the better.

Researchers writing in Evolution and Human Behaviour speculated this was to do with fatty acids found on the hips.

In this area, the fat is likely to be the much touted Omega-3, which could improve the woman's own mental abilities as well as those of her child during pregnancy";


Full story;

BBC NEWS | Health | Curvy women may be a clever bet




Heh, i have a very curvy figure and my IQ rates quite high (above average- although of course, IQ is not everything and can be quite limited in showing the true potential of a persons intelligence etc), lol maybe my IQ has a little to do with my big hips ("looks down at hips, trips over and lands flat on face", doh!) lol...


Seriously though, i think the reason why women with big hips/curvy frame are more likely to have better intelligence is probably down to diet more than anything else- when i was at college i was very underweight, being a starving student and all, my frame was skinny and not particularly curvy.
It was only when i was able to afford more food and eat better that my hips really developed and my boobs grew larger- you need food to think too, so maybe women who have a curvier (but not fat) frame simply have a better diet (particularly one containing more omega 3) and so are more likely to be intelligent than girls/women that have starved themselves to appear skinny etc (and so also starved their hips and boobs too, since these things are mostly made out of fat), and if they can eat a good diet then they are also likely to feed their kids a good diet and so give their kids a head start in life too etc.


Anyways, i remember reading way back that one of the main reasons why so many guys are attracted to women with a curvier frame is because;
a. Women with bigger and more developed hips can deliver babies in childbirth easier.
b. Women with a curvier frame tend to have higher levels of female hormones rather than male hormones like testostorone in them, which is why people associate a curvy body physique with being more womanly. I think oestrogen (sp?), a female hormone, makes women more fertile and curvy which is why a lot of guys find curvy women very attractive. The same concept applies to things like big boobs and peachy bums etc being seen as generally very attractive and desireable with women in society etc.
c. Girls don't develop their curves and things like boobs until they start going through puberty, so it makes sense that guys are more attracted to larger boobs and curvier frame rather than being attracted to the more child/boy-like frame of pre-pubescent girls.



People say though that japanese women have no curves, i think this is only sorta true though (although most japanese women i have seen don't have very curvy figures, some i have seen do).
It is true that a lot of japanese women in the olden days had a rather tube-like figure, you only have to wear kimono to understand this (kimono are not very kind to curves). This was apparently all down to nutrition though, the traditional japanese diet is not one which generally has much in the way of calcium or animal fats in it. Apparently since the americans occupied japan after they japan the war and introduced milk into childrens school meals, the average height and boob size of japanese women has been increasing due to the better nutrition introduce to these girls from an early age needed for these things to happen.

And you can really see this taking effect at least in kimono- a lot of japanese women now have to wear padding to help pad out their curve's and make them less pronounced so they can wear kimono well. An obita (a board like thing which is strapped to the front of the tummy to smoothen it out under the obi to help prevent the obi becomming creased) now seems to be a part of every japanese womens kimono kit. There are so many types of padding used to pad out the figure in kimono there are too many to list here.

So i think japanese women at the least are growing taller, curvier and getting larger boobs etc. At the end of the day i don't think they'll ever have the physique of western women as we are all just evolved different in this respect, we look different because of the environments our ancesters lived in thousands of years ago during their evolution etc, but at the very least i think as time goes by it will not be uncommon to see taller and curvier japanese women.

I think how curvy your body can actually get obviously comes down to genetics at the end of the day, but i do think you can greatly effect stuff like boob size, bum size and hip size etc by your diet, excercise levels and how much you eat etc. Obviously though these factors are mostly likely to effect you while you are still developing, i read somewhere that women completely stop growing at the age of 25 (although most women have stopped well before then).


Anyways...I don't like to think that my intelligence has anything much to do with my curvyness, i think its vastly down to stuff like gene's and conditions in your mothers womb while you were growing in it etc.
I have seen some really curvy bimbo's with not a gram of intelligent between their ears.

 

[nice gaijin]

I prefer the old(ish) adage: genetics load the gun, but environment pulls the trigger.

Also, I was under the impression that the "padding" in kimono is meant to flatten, not pronounce, a woman's curves. At least that's how it was explained to me by a curvy friend that happened to be wearing a yukata. As an aside, I'd like to point out (as an observation, because I found it interesting) your apparent bias in calling milk and eggs "better nutrition." While it may be more conducive to forming curves, I wouldn't purport to judge the relative value of one culture's common diet over another...

 

[Haruspex]

Well true, i have to agree with that, but thats why i try to avoid looking at curvy women too much. I mean i consider myself a person with relatively strong willpower... but hell, its just so annoying to have sexual thoughts just by seeing a "nice shape", doesn't anyone get that annoying feeling? When you should think of something else, you've got work to do. And in general, its so annoying to have so much instinctual influence on your mind. Seriously, the curvyness sure can be a weapon
Are they clever? Hell knows, might be the case, but probably not all the time.

 

[bakaKanadajin]

This is a chicken and egg argument, it's tough to decide whether what men want dictates the current female standard, or if the current female standard dictates what men like.

That being said, however, the standard is always changing. A few hundred years ago large women were very popular, as portrayed in paintings and books. Then high brows were desirable, displaying intelligence, so women used to crop their hair quite high to make their foreheads look larger. In some African cultures a long neck is desirable so they add rings to their necks to elongate them. There really is no set standard, everything is relative to some cultural or chronological benchmark.

I think in this day and age, if the media is any indicator of popular opinion, we are moving away from the 'large' or 'curvy' standard and back into the pre-pubescent, skinny, smooth model of 'woman'. Just look at Paris Hilton, the Olsen twins, all the Disney pop singers, etc. Young-looking but easy-acting is popular. This is probably a huge burden for most women since in this day and age, everyone (men too) are moving into the out-of-shape and overweight range due to poor diets and lack of exercise.

How does it all relate to intelligence? If I had to guess, big girls get socially ostracized so they rely more on their intelligence and academic merits for self-validation. This happens in male circles too. This is probably the way life should be (not that they're ostracized, but that they are eager to pursue academics), but its unfortunate that such effort sometimes stems from a lack of acceptance based on physical appearance. I suppose arguing that certain fats and compounds mean that the brain is also physiologically strong is possible but I'd say nurture is way more important than nature here, because humans are all fairly similar genetically speaking. I can't see a little added weight being as important a determining factor. I'd also have to say that if we're really going to buy into these generalities, this is something limited to the Western experience, as generally speaking Chinese and Japanese children studying in the West have stereotypically higher academic scores than their Western-born classmates. But.. generally speaking, 'Asian' people are usually slender and slight of build aren't they? It just doesn't add up for me, the whole fat = brains argument.

 

[Goldiegirl]

American students don't apply themselves overall. There isn't a push to do well in school. You have to compare apple to apples. Getting good grades in school doesn't mean you're smart. Albert Einstein was not a great student, I wouldn't say he was dumb. Anyway, I can say this. If I am hungry I can't think. I always ate breakfast if I had exams on a particular day. I always performed better at my horse shows when I had eaten, even though I didn't feel hungry because of nerves. It was easier to remember the courses.

 

[Haruspex]

Why couldn't the extra fat make difference? Its not like it decides everything, but usually after checking thousands of people you end up with something that is to be taken seriously. So as long as someones not that damn fat that it affects say... blood circulation, breathing or something like that, they probably COULD be sharper.

 

[Mandy]

interesting argument.
I am quite curvy myself (makes me wish I was of American Indian descent, they seem to be the only ones to get away with it) and find current fashions quite frustrating.
There will never be an answer for this one, there are too much conflicting research.
Ultimately, I'd rather be curvy than undernourished.

 

[mika_r]

Lol, I'm curvy and one of the best students of my class x)

and my IQ is also very high...

well... not enough to be a genius i think xD

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

This is a chicken and egg argument, it's tough to decide whether what men want dictates the current female standard, or if the current female standard dictates what men like.

That being said, however, the standard is always changing. A few hundred years ago large women were very popular, as portrayed in paintings and books. Then high brows were desirable, displaying intelligence, so women used to crop their hair quite high to make their foreheads look larger. In some African cultures a long neck is desirable so they add rings to their necks to elongate them. There really is no set standard, everything is relative to some cultural or chronological benchmark.

There is always a reason for everything, and when it comes to what men find attractive in society it almost always has some sort of relevance to finding women who can produce better offspring.

Apparently the reason why in times like during the 17th century women who would be considered fat or plump now days and generally not that desirable were considered very sexy back then was because during those times many people lived in famine like conditions (brought on by factors like what is often referred too as the "mini ice age" in the 16/17th centuries), many men and women were very underweight from not having enough food.

The theory is that women who were able to be overweight back then must have been very good at finding food during those harsh times, so such women were also more likely to be able to find lots of food for their children and give their kids a head start in life over those whose mothers were skinny and couldn't find enough food for themselves or their children.

So basically thats apparently why being fat/plump was considered beautiful by men (although this is all mostly instinctive unconscious stuff going on in the minds of men) back then in those times where food was scarce.

And it goes further too- apparently the reason why we find skinny (even very underweight) women so attractive in society right now is because there is an over-abundance of food in our western societies, fat mothers are more likely to raise fat kids and being fat is not very good for your health or quality of life (there are countless health problems brought about by being overweight etc).
So men are more likely to be attracted to women who can control their food portion sizes and live and look and be healthy in a society where there is such an over-abundance of food that it is causing a great and increasingly large percentage of the population to become obese etc.

With the african ring neck culture thing, perhaps amoungst other reasons men were attracted to it is because a slender neck is more feminine and shows the women has higher and more balanced levels of the right hormones, certainly most guys don't find women with butch, short and muscley necks very attractive (because such a thing would suggest the women has lower levels of female hormones and thus is less fertile etc).

And with the high brow thing, well you really gave the reason why men thought this was attractive yourself, at the time people thought a high brow suggested that the person was more intelligent. Now days we know better than to judge a persons intelligence on stuff like that, so the beauty ideal has yet again changed etc.

I think in this day and age, if the media is any indicator of popular opinion, we are moving away from the 'large' or 'curvy' standard and back into the pre-pubescent, skinny, smooth model of 'woman'. Just look at Paris Hilton, the Olsen twins, all the Disney pop singers, etc. Young-looking but easy-acting is popular. This is probably a huge burden for most women since in this day and age, everyone (men too) are moving into the out-of-shape and overweight range due to poor diets and lack of exercise.

Hmm actually i think if you asked most guys if they found paris hilton really sexy, most guys would admit that she's relatively good looking but that she isn't exactly sex on legs/hotstuff.

I don't think we're heading towards the pre-pubescent look, our beauty ideals certainly glorify being slim, but as i said before i believe this is down to our environment of abundant food that we live in etc.
But i don't think we're heading towards the pre-pubescent look at all simply because of a focus on things like large boob size- almost all of the most popular porn star models in recent times have large boobs and slim waist and peachy bums.

With japan and anime, you can see this most of all- tiny waisted girls in maid uniforms with giant boobs bursting out of their aprons are all the rage.


It is unusual to see women with a very slender physique but has big boobs, boobs are mostly made out of body fat so it is unusual to see women whose body in general lacks a lot of body fat but still has big volumptuos boobs.
I think this ideal though in having this sort of physique is a side effect of men finding slim women attractive in a society with rapidly increasing obesity levels- men don't want an obese woman for numerous reasons especially concerning the babies they may produce (for example it is proven for example that babies who develop in the wombs of obese mothers are more likely to suffer from asthma and learning difficulty problems due to the pressure of the mothers excessive weight pressing down on the baby while it is developing in her etc), but at the same time they don't want very underweight women either for similar reasons (for example it is proven that underweight women are more likely to miscarry their babies or have babies suffering from learning difficulties etc).

Women who are very underweight are the least likely to have medium to large size boobs. Women who are slim and eat a good diet and excercise properly etc are more likely to have big boobs though than women who are simply skinny because they are underweight rather than from eating a good diet with good food portion sizes and who excercise regularly etc.

So basically i think this ideal of the slim woman with curvy physique and nice medium to large sized boobs etc is all down to the society that we live in- unconsciously, men just want to find the healthiest and most fertile and womanly women to sleep with etc.

I'd also have to say that if we're really going to buy into these generalities, this is something limited to the Western experience, as generally speaking Chinese and Japanese children studying in the West have stereotypically higher academic scores than their Western-born classmates. But.. generally speaking, 'Asian' people are usually slender and slight of build aren't they? It just doesn't add up for me, the whole fat = brains argument.

As goldiegirl said, grades do not represent the actual intelligence of an individual. I think the main reason why chinese kids and japanese kids produce better grades is simply because they get an aweful lot more pressure to do so- in china, a whole families future can ride on the success of their only son and the grades he produces in school, failure is not an option for him.
Over here in places like england and america we don't live in the same sort of society with the same culture and same types or degree's of such pressure. I don't think we push our children as much to succeed in school, in most families the teenagers choice to further their education is their own choice and not something forced upon them by the whole family etc.
Its true that we still get families that push their kids imensely during their education to produce good results, but i don't think we are anywhere near the level of what chinese people do because we generally live in a more comfortable society, the divide/gap between rich and poor is less large etc and everybody has access to education over here (while in china, education is a privilage not available to every child) etc.

 

[Goldiegirl]

Why does curvy come across as fat. I would say I am curvy. I am not fat. I wear a
US size 8. Granted compared to many Asian girls I am bigger, but my bones structure alone is bigger. I think when you are underweight and undernourished, you can't think as well. My mom works with anorexics and they get a form of dementia as their weight plummets. So yes I think "healthy" people men or women are more able to think.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Why does curvy come across as fat. I would say I am curvy. I am not fat. I wear a
US size 8. Granted compared to many Asian girls I am bigger, but my bones structure alone is bigger. I think when you are underweight and undernourished, you can't think as well. My mom works with anorexics and they get a form of dementia as their weight plummets. So yes I think "healthy" people men or women are more able to think.

Yeah i don't get why a lot of people think being curvy is being fat, i have a very slim/small waist but i have big hips and my boobs are pretty big too (DD), i'm roughly around a UK size 12 (it depends though, some size uk 12 stuff is too big for me while other uk size 12 stuff is too small etc) and i weigh 10 stone and 4 pounds (which according to the ideal BMI for my height and gender is ideal). I would say my physique in general is very curvy.

I wouldn't be suprised though if some anorexics do get a form of dementia though, during my starving student days when i couldn't afford enough food to eat i often found it difficult to learn and remember stuff (maybe back then that was because all my brain could think about was "food, food, food, food," etc lol), it was just difficult to concentrate on stuff.

 

[El P8s]

What exactly is the definition of curvy does curvy have to be overweight?

 

[nice gaijin]

There is always a reason for everything, and when it comes to what men find attractive in society it almost always has some sort of relevance to finding women who can produce better offspring.

Yes there is usually a reason for everything, but I think you're pulling at straws trying to make this darwinian connection between standards of beauty and producing offspring.

Being large might have meant a better ability to obtain food thousands of years ago, but to most cultures, these standards of beauty mean just the opposite: that the women are wealthy enough that they don't have to work in the fields. Being well fed is synonymous with prosperity, and current trends in obesity are examples of this gone awry.

Cultures that employ neck rings these days often force this custom on their children not because of some aesthetic ideal (although that was a part of its origin), but because it draws tourist attention and makes money for the family; it has nothing to do with hormones, these cultures don't even have a concept for hormones.

A great example of this is Chinese foot binding. This aesthetic standard with the most arbitrary of origins spread unevenly and due to a variety of reasons, a false claim to increased fertility (when the opposite is true) was only a minor reason for its populary, quoted by women trying to spread the practice. (source). This "treatment" was not only meant to show that women were members of a rich family, but it greatly hindered their health and mobility.

As for the curvy=fat connection, it's probably because lot of fat women use the word "curvy" to describe themselves, because it sounds better. It's like calling a small house "cozy" or old clothes "vintage."