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China makes most 'juku' (after-school cram schools) illegal. Or at least makes things very difficult.

Buntaro

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It looks like a lot of English teachers in China just lost their jobs.

Here are a couple of links.




 

Reiko 1981

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Those who could afford tuition in the past, will have one-on-one classes at teachers' homes. Many teachers will lose jobs. Lots of tax money will be lost. As a result, there will be a decrease in general level of education, which is a pity, because many Chinese kids are smart and want to study.
 

Lothor

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Those who could afford tuition in the past, will have one-on-one classes at teachers' homes. Many teachers will lose jobs. Lots of tax money will be lost. As a result, there will be a decrease in general level of education, which is a pity, because many Chinese kids are smart and want to study.
I have a different view on this one, currently having a son in his final year of JHS. Juku is about training kids to pass exams more than education, and the main beneficiaries of juku are the juku themselves and the top schools, which are able to select only the cleverest students (yet these supposedly good universities affiliated with the top schools are not particularly outstanding on the world stage). We're in the fortunate situation of both me and my wife working full time, but families not in this position are really going to struggle to pay for their kids to learn how to approach the exam questions in the right way. Kids from low-income families don't stand a chance.

When I went to university, the success of my application depended 100% on how I did in my school examinations, so there was no need for cram schools, and that's how the system should be for most university courses (and high schools). I'm wholeheartedly behind China's move (are you reading this @Mansoor?!).
 

mdchachi

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When I went to university, the success of my application depended 100% on how I did in my school examinations, so there was no need for cram schools, and that's how the system should be for most university courses (and high schools).
I'm not sure I understand the difference. You say your success depended entirely on examinations. How is this different? Sounds like the same thing but maybe different set of exams?
 

Lothor

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My son told me that his marks from his the junior high school he is currently attending will contribute one-third to his score when he applies to a high school and that the exams set by the high school will contribute two-thirds of the score. This increases the need for jukus because students benefit from intensive training in doing past exam papers set by the high school they want to go to (and you can buy books of past papers from individual schools); obviously a teacher at a school with kids applying to different high schools does not have the resources to train all students to perform well in specific exams.

When I was taking my A levels in the UK (the most common exam done by 18 year olds), the exams were set nationally, not by universities (with the exception of Oxford and Cambridge), and one of the teacher's jobs after completing the syllabus was to provide the practice so that students were familiar with the exams when they took them. Teachers could do that with all students doing the same exam. This meant that there was no need to pay extra to train yourself to become familiar with a specific exam. Universities made offers based entirely on the grades you got (with an interview for some courses where personal attributes are particularly important such as medicine - not every clever person would make a good doctor).

Does that make it clearer?

Reiko 1981's comment does raise the issue of what is education and what is it for. Ignoring the coronavirus, the money we are spending on juku this year would have been enough to put my son on a plane to Britain and get him to spend a few months with members of my large family. I think that would have been much better education than training him to factorise very complicated mathematical expressions that it's simply unnecessary to do in advanced maths.
 

Reiko 1981

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I have a different view on this one, currently having a son in his final year of JHS. Juku is about training kids to pass exams more than education, and the main beneficiaries of juku are the juku themselves and the top schools, which are able to select only the cleverest students (yet these supposedly good universities affiliated with the top schools are not particularly outstanding on the world stage). We're in the fortunate situation of both me and my wife working full time, but families not in this position are really going to struggle to pay for their kids to learn how to approach the exam questions in the right way. Kids from low-income families don't stand a chance.

When I went to university, the success of my application depended 100% on how I did in my school examinations, so there was no need for cram schools, and that's how the system should be for most university courses (and high schools). I'm wholeheartedly behind China's move (are you reading this @Mansoor?!).
Yes, they do have a lot of pressure, but my kid goes to school in China, and there are 60 students in her class. The teacher simply has no time to aporoach everyone individually. So those schools are a good way for students to catch up on something they do not understand. Besides, nobody forces you to go to a training school. And also, because she went to those schools all the time to practice, she managed to get 99% in English, Math and Chinese entrance tests and get into the best school in the province. What I am saying is that students and parents need to have the choice, but of course, not overdo it. Also, my kid most probably will go to a uni in China, and it really matters which school you go to. If you cannot get into a good school, you cannot get into a famous uni, and it is really hard to get a job afterwards.
 

Reiko 1981

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My son told me that his marks from his the junior high school he is currently attending will contribute one-third to his score when he applies to a high school and that the exams set by the high school will contribute two-thirds of the score. This increases the need for jukus because students benefit from intensive training in doing past exam papers set by the high school they want to go to (and you can buy books of past papers from individual schools); obviously a teacher at a school with kids applying to different high schools does not have the resources to train all students to perform well in specific exams.

When I was taking my A levels in the UK (the most common exam done by 18 year olds), the exams were set nationally, not by universities (with the exception of Oxford and Cambridge), and one of the teacher's jobs after completing the syllabus was to provide the practice so that students were familiar with the exams when they took them. Teachers could do that with all students doing the same exam. This meant that there was no need to pay extra to train yourself to become familiar with a specific exam. Universities made offers based entirely on the grades you got (with an interview for some courses where personal attributes are particularly important such as medicine - not every clever person would make a good doctor).

Does that make it clearer?

Reiko 1981's comment does raise the issue of what is education and what is it for. Ignoring the coronavirus, the money we are spending on juku this year would have been enough to put my son on a plane to Britain and get him to spend a few months with members of my large family. I think that would have been much better education than training him to factorise very complicated mathematical expressions that it's simply unnecessary to do in advanced maths.
I see what you mean and I agree with you, but it is very hard to change the education system in China. That is why parents and kids need those schools to get into better colleges and have a better life. In Europe or the U. S. it does not really matter which college you go to if you have skills and abilities. But in China things are very different. I have been living here since 2008 and I have discovered that a person with a Bachelor's degree from a famous uni finds it easier to find a job than a petson with a PhD from a second-rate or third-rate college.
 

mdchachi

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I see what you mean and I agree with you, but it is very hard to change the education system in China. That is why parents and kids need those schools to get into better colleges and have a better life. In Europe or the U. S. it does not really matter which college you go to if you have skills and abilities. But in China things are very different. I have been living here since 2008 and I have discovered that a person with a Bachelor's degree from a famous uni finds it easier to find a job than a petson with a PhD from a second-rate or third-rate college.
Which may explain why we see so many Chinese people leaving China for higher education.
 

Reiko 1981

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Which may explain why we see so many Chinese people leaving China for higher education.
Exactly. I myself got my degrees in Russia, which is more affordable than a degree in Britain. But common people in China, millions of them, like taxi-drivers and waiters, earn quite a low salary, like 300-500 USD per month, and they simply cannot afford sending their kids to a British college. But they could afford spending 50 USD per month on a training center. So, those training centers were a real help. Also, not every parent is able to explain high school Math or Chemistry to their students. That is why they send their kids to those centers. Besides, teachers who work at cram schools also need to feed their families and not all of them have a fancy degree to simply get another job. Several former students of mine who used to work there have recently lost their jobs and now don't know what to do. They cannot become hairdressers or computer engineers in a short time. Yes, schools have to teach kids without kids having to go to cram schools, but the reality is that there are simply too many students in one class in China (60 and over, sometimes 90), and not everyone is smart enough to be good at every subject, so those schools were a good way to help them. Of course, they earn money, but kids get help too.
Also, every scarce resource becomes very desired and very expensive, so those rich kids are gonna be able to afford private tuition at teachers' homes anyway, but middle class kids will have fewer opportunities to improve their scores.
 

Lothor

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Yes, they do have a lot of pressure, but my kid goes to school in China, and there are 60 students in her class. The teacher simply has no time to aporoach everyone individually. So those schools are a good way for students to catch up on something they do not understand. Besides, nobody forces you to go to a training school. And also, because she went to those schools all the time to practice, she managed to get 99% in English, Math and Chinese entrance tests and get into the best school in the province. What I am saying is that students and parents need to have the choice, but of course, not overdo it. Also, my kid most probably will go to a uni in China, and it really matters which school you go to. If you cannot get into a good school, you cannot get into a famous uni, and it is really hard to get a job afterwards.
I'm not against your right to choose but I am against a system that essentially forces kids to go to cram schools to get into a good high school, which is the current system in Japan. I pay plenty of tax to the local and central government, and in return I expect a system that doesn't require me to pay twice for my children to have a reasonably good education.

Another consequence of the juku system in Japan is that junior high schools (and I assume the high schools) don't challenge the children because they know that the jukus will take up the slack. As an example of this, as the summer holiday tasks from my son's junior high school (a state school with a middling reputation), he had to paint a picture and write about it, and to sew something. In contrast, each evening he was bringing home questions like "Factorise a4 + b4 + 6a2b2 + 4a1b3 + 4a3b1" (numbers after letters are powers) from juku, which is a tough question even for kids leaving high school.
 
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Reiko 1981

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I agree with you, we shouldn't pay twice. I am also not happy to spend about 20 percent of my salary on cram schools. But unfortunately, common people cannot change the whole education system, so we send kids to cram schools and let them finish the job that the public schools don't do very well. My point was not that I love cram schools, but that without them it is hard for kuds to get high scores.
 

Lothor

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"Common people can't change the whole education" - so defeatist! :)
 

Reiko 1981

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"Common people can't change the whole educa

"Common people can't change the whole education" - so defeatist! :)

Not defeatist. Realistic. It is China.
What I mean is, there are many good things about living in China, for example, it is easy for foreigners to find jobs, and travel is cheap, the food is great, but there are some things that just cannot be changed, no matter how hard you try. If you divorce, they will give your kid to the Chinese ex-spouse no matter how good you are and then you will be paying and paying and paying money for your kid's education and see your kid once or twice a year if you are lucky. Two foreigners cannot marry in China. How can this be changed? Kids can only go to school where their hukou (registered residence) is. If you want a good job, you gotta go to a famous uni. It's like in Japan people say "shikata ga nai". Some things just don't work, no matter what you do. I was really not pessimistic, but I have lived here too long, so that's why I am saying these things. Also, people here will not deal with the root of the problem directly, but try to go around it and try to find a solution. Like, if I want to see my kid by my ex, I gotta pay for juku. If I want her to improve Physics, I will not write letters to local education authorities, but find a uni student and pay him to do homework with her. Just yesterday, my kid's grandma asked for more money for juku. I told her that juku are illegal. She said they were online classes. But online classes are supposed to be free, right? So, now somebody has already organized some online juku and people are still paying. What am I to do? I just wanna see my kid. Shikata ga nai...
 

Reiko 1981

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What I mean is, there are many good things about living in China, for example, it is easy for foreigners to find jobs, and travel is cheap, the food is great, but there are some things that just cannot be changed, no matter how hard you try. If you divorce, they will give your kid to the Chinese ex-spouse no matter how good you are and then you will be paying and paying and paying money for your kid's education and see your kid once or twice a year if you are lucky. Two foreigners cannot marry in China. How can this be changed? Kids can only go to school where their hukou (registered residence) is. If you want a good job, you gotta go to a famous uni. It's like in Japan people say "shikata ga nai". Some things just don't work, no matter what you do. I was really not pessimistic, but I have lived here too long, so that's why I am saying these things. Also, people here will not deal with the root of the problem directly, but try to go around it and try to find a solution. Like, if I want to see my kid by my ex, I gotta pay for juku. If I want her to improve Physics, I will not write letters to local education authorities, but find a uni student and pay him to do homework with her. Just yesterday, my kid's grandma asked for more money for juku. I told her that juku are illegal. She said they were online classes. But online classes are supposed to be free, right? So, now somebody has already organized some online juku and people are still paying. What am I to do? I just wanna see my kid. Shikata ga nai...
What saves me is my wonderful Japanese friends in China. Thank you so much.
 

Lothor

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What saves me is my wonderful Japanese friends in China. Thank you so much.
Sorry to hear about your divorce woes. The situation seems to be similar to Japan, with one parent often having no or almost no contact with their children. Laws need to be changed so that access to children is a right of divorced parents unless there are compelling reasons to deny access.
 

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They are really going off the rails aren't they?
If they ban juku and video game playing, what are these kids supposed to do? Self-study? Factory work?
BEIJING (AP) — China’s government banned effeminate men on TV and told broadcasters Thursday to promote “revolutionary culture,” broadening a campaign to tighten control over business and society and enforce official morality.
...
Broadcasters must “resolutely put an end to sissy men and other abnormal esthetics,” the TV regulator said, using an insulting slang term for effeminate men — “niang pao,” or literally, “girlie guns.”

That reflects official concern that Chinese pop stars, influenced by the sleek, girlish look of some South Korean and Japanese singers and actors, are failing to encourage China’s young men to be masculine enough.
...
Rules that took effect Wednesday limit anyone under 18 to three hours per week of online games and prohibit play on school days.
 

Reiko 1981

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They are really going off the rails aren't they?
If they ban juku and video game playing, what are these kids supposed to do? Self-study? Factory work?
I guess, they will be looking for ways around it, like asking their cousin or elder brother to help them register or whatever is needed to be able to play those games. And there are already online juku that take money from parents just fine. The unpleasant thing is that nobody checks those online juku. Who teaches there? Are they qualified? At least in a juku you can install cameras and check their accounts, but with these online ones ... I think all that money they paid for regular cram schools will go to private tutors and online juku. :(
 

Reiko 1981

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As for those "sissy" men, it is not the looks that makes a man sissy, but his actions. When a man cannot say no to his mother, and as a result of a divorce, the kid lives with a grandma, because grandma says so, that's a sissy. When a very proud and masculine Chinese guy left me, he stole my grandmother's golden ring. And shampoo. Can you believe this? A bottle of shampoo, man. When my pregnant Chinese friend cries because her boyfriend wouldn't marry her because his momma doesn't want him to marry a waitress, that man is a sissy. It is the actions that matter, not pink hair.
 

Reiko 1981

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They are really going off the rails aren't they?
If they ban juku and video game playing, what are these kids supposed to do? Self-study? Factory work?
Correct me if I am wrong, but those limitations concern online games, right? However, there are games that don't require an internet connection and other things to do if a kid doesn't want to study. Tetris, manga, cards, cosplay, you name it. So just limiting the amount of time they play games won't work, I think. Many kids don't have a computer and their parents can simply take away their phones. If a kid doesn't want to do homework, she will stare blankly at the wall and do nothing or pretend she is doing homework. I think, those restrictions have to be set by parents through communication. When I was a kid, my parents would allow me to watch TV or play Doom for 2 hours after I do my homework. No homework, no dinner. Now this worked well :) but all those restrictions from somewhere far away won't work because there is always a way around.
 
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Correct me if I am wrong, but those limitations concern online games, right? However, there are games that don't require an internet connection and other things to do if a kid doesn't want to study. Tetris, manga, cards, cosplay, you name it. So just limiting the amount of time they play games won't work, I think. Many kids don't have a computer and their parents can simply take away their phones. If a kid doesn't want to do homework, she will stare blankly at the wall and do nothing or pretend she is doing homework. I think, those restrictions have to be set by parents through communication. When I was a kid, my parents would allow me to watch TV or play Doom for 2 hours after I do my homework. No homework, no dinner. Now this worked well :) but all those restrictions from somewhere far away won't work because there is always a way around.
True, but its still bad how the government is trying. Trying as hard as it can to restrict things, it was a lot of of blocks in a short gap of time, and about things that lets be honest, are not really threats or priority problems (about Juku it can be argued though, but they nostly act by restricting/blocking anything instead of modifying or planning, thats the problem)

Its hard to not worry about how far they can go, and if they might get to the point of pursuiting, etc

We can really hope they wont
 
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After all this I wouldnt be surprised anymore if in any year soon I see 'China bans Music digital services', 'China bans Tiktok', etc etc, they are really slamming entertainment and culture, everytime with a different excuse
 

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After all this I wouldnt be surprised anymore if in any year soon I see 'China bans Music digital services', 'China bans Tiktok', etc etc, they are really slamming entertainment and culture, everytime with a different excuse
That would be ironic considering that TikTok came from China. I suspect the TikTok they see there is already heavily monitor and censored.
 
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