I think what you have in mind is 「物」meaning things, which is a common noun.So then, 高山のような町は忙しいものです。means "Generally speaking, towns like Takayama are busy."
However in my mind the 忙しいもの could just be "busy things"...so towns like Takayama are busy things...er..
...Glenn's sentence of
(これは）私達の責任に相当するもの
Would mean "Generally speaking, this is our fitting responsibility" ?
If I am right I will try それに相当するもの、それだけの価値のあるもの but perhaps in my own topic, I don't want to ruin this topic with my questions; rather I hope my attempts can help the discussion...
Hm, so I think my translations were wrong...I tried to take Toritoribe's example of 学生は勉強するものだ and make something else using an adjective. Thanks for your help epigene!
No, it's もの as a sentence ending to express different types of emotions. For instance, the so-called "woman's term" when making an excuse or trying to justify an action, following an adjective or verb and functioning like から...(私はコンサートに行きませんでした。 母が病気なものので)....Does it correspond at all to the definition below ?http://dic.yahoo.co.jp/dsearch?p=%E3...type=0&dtype=0
As Glenn-san explained, "verb/adjective + もの" connotes "generally speaking." Actually, 学生は勉強するものだ is a good example; "Genarally speaking, students should study."
Are you referring to the prefix usage?
私はコンサートに行きませんでした。 母が病気なものので
Ok, thanks for those. Although I'm still a bit uncertain thinking about the differences in (もの)だから, （な）ので, ですから beyond basic issues of politeness and other から/ので rules.This looks to be the usage under Putrefaction's second picture, the ～ものだから usage. It can become もので I guess to give less of an excuse-sounding reason than when you say ものだから, similar to （な）ので versus （だ）から.
ところでですね、「の」が一つ余っているようですが・・・
More examples of that usage:
１）先生「どうして遅刻したんですか。」
学生「目覚まし時計が壊れていたものですから。」
２）姉「あっ、私のベストまた着てる。どうして、黙って着るの。」
妹「だって、これ、好きなんだもん。それに、お姉さん、いなかったし・・・。」
３）今週は忙しかったもので、お返事するのがつい遅くなってしまいました。（手紙文）
These are from どんな時どう使う日本語表現文型５００ 中・上級. They lumped ～ものだから, ～もので, and ～もの（もん）all into one group.
Hmm, I don't agree with this, "もの doesn't take adjectives."That use of もの doesn't take adjectives or nouns according to どんな時どう使う日本語表現文型５００ 中・上級 and 中上級を教える人のための日本語文法ハンドブック. It only follows verbs.
サービス終了のお知らせ〔4〕 （形式名詞）
［1］ （「…ものだ（である）」などの形で）
（ア） 普遍的な傾向。
・ どんな人もお世辞には弱い―だ
・ 人間はとかく過去を美化したがる―らしい
文法もの sounds like "a grammer textbook" or "a question regarding grammer" to me, thus, the same use of 学園もの; campus-life story. FYI, もの can't be used with all nouns. The expression like 責任ものだ is less common at least than 責任を取らなければならない.文法ものが分かりません！
Grammatically, that's not a nominalizer but is classified under "particle." See examples below. The expressions like ないんです, おっしゃったんです CAN'T be nominalized.No, it's もの as a sentence ending to express different types of emotions. For instance, the so-called "woman's term" when making an excuse or trying to justify an action, following an adjective or verb and functioning like から...(私はコンサートに行きませんでした。 母が病気なものので)....Does it correspond at all to the definition below ?
T2464.gif物事の筋道。道理。理屈。「 ―の順序をわきまえる 」
This is a confusing point. Mostly because there has not been presented a break down of how these "nominalizing" usages distinguish between following verbs and coming after adjectives. I will relook for better examples through the newspaper but only as if now know what my experience has been from texts, dictionaries and the like.
サービス終了のお知らせ活用語の終止形に付く。
［1］ 不満・うらみ・あまえ・訴えなどの気持ちを込めて、理由を述べる。「だもの・ですもの」の形をとることが多い。
・ だって、仕方がないんです―
・ どうしてもぼく行きたい―
サービス終了のお知らせ１ 活用語の終止形に付く。多く「だって」「でも」と呼応して用いる。現代では多く女性や子供の間で使われるが、時に撥音化して「もん」となることもある。
不平・不満・恨みの意を込めながら、相手の自分に対する非難に対し、根拠や理由を示し、反駁(はんばく)、訴え、甘えなどの気持ちを表す。「だって時間がないんです―」「でもお父さんがそうおっしゃったんです―」
文法もの sounds like "a grammer textbook" or "a question regarding grammer" to me, thus, the same use of 学園もの; campus-life story. FYI, もの can't be used with all nouns. The expression like 責任ものだ is less common at least than 責任を取らなければならない.
I didn't mean it never does; I meant it doesn't in that usage (i.e., the 常識・するのが当然だ usage). For instance, 共産党の制服は青いものだ wouldn't be acceptable to mean "the communist party's uniforms should be blue." It could mean "the communist party's uniforms always seem to be blue" or "they always are blue," though (as in the speaker is expressing his thoughts in a subjective, emotional way). 「文法というのは、難しいものだ」という文も一緒です ね。ですが、文法は難しくなければならないという意味 は持てません。でしょう？Hmm, I don't agree with this, "もの doesn't take adjectives."
http://dic.yahoo.co.jp/dsearch?p=%E3...pe=0&dname=0ss
文法というのは、難しいものだ。
Hehe. Sore mo shitte wa itakedo, kangaete wa inakattan desu ne...Hmm, I don't agree with this, "もの doesn't take adjectives."
サービス終了のお知らせ
文法というのは、難しいものだ。;-)
文法もの sounds like "a grammer textbook" or "a question regarding grammer" to me, thus, the same use of 学園もの; campus-life story. FYI, もの can't be used with all nouns. The expression like 責任ものだ is less common at least than 責任を取らなければならない.
Grammatically, that's not a nominalizer but is classified under "particle." See examples below. The expressions like 勉強しています, ないんです, おっしゃったんです CAN'T be nominalized.
But one quick question, the もの in 学園もの wasn't the 物 meaning, was it? It was meant to be percieved as; "pertaining to"?
「もの」の検索結果 - Yahoo!辞書６ 名詞の下に付いて複合語をつくる。
その種類にはいる品物・作品の意を表す。「SF―」「現代―」
［1］ その分野・種類に入る品物や作品であることを表す。
・ 夏―
・ 西陣―
・ 三年―のワイン
・ 現代―
I didn't mean it never does; I meant it doesn't in that usage (i.e., the 常識・するのが当然だ usage). For instance, 共産党の制服は青いものだ wouldn't be acceptable to mean "the communist party's uniforms should be blue." It could mean "the communist party's uniforms always seem to be blue" or "they always are blue," though (as in the speaker is expressing his thoughts in a subjective, emotional way). 「文法というのは、難しいものだ」という文も一緒です ね。ですが、文法は難しくなければならないという意味 は持てません。でしょう？
If I interpret it 漢文調 Japanese, 汝我が意明白なりとすや, 汝我が意了とすや?(I really wanted to type 你明白我的意思了？ seriously just now. I guess that study's been paying off. haha) Anyway, do you know what I mean? Does that make sense?
lolI wish when I learned about もの I would have just been taught all 18,000 usages of it all at once because, it got really confusing not knowing all the meanings it can have.
If I interpret it 漢文調 Japanese, 汝我が意明白なりとすや, 汝我が意了とすや?
Probably 漢文 used in Japanese is a bit old Chinese.
And not to leave out the other mono [者] which is for people. Or is it もの as in 者?I wish when I learned about もの I would have just been taught all 18,000 usages of it all at once because, it got really confusing not knowing all the meanings it can have.
I'd say that the first one ( コメントするものはありません ) suggest the speaker was looking for something to comment on but can't find any.To me it looks like either can mean "I have nothing to comment on," but the こと version can also mean "there's no need to comment." I'd be interested in any other differences, although I can't recall ever having heard ～するものはありません. Is that an actual example?
Grammatically (as alwaysThe pattern of こと/ものはありません as below (Fairly interchangeable, I think !). Besides もの possibly more emphatic and colorful, any more implications of one over the other?
コメントするものはありません
コメントすることはありません