Pararousia
先輩
- 15 Feb 2005
- 122
- 10
I met many wonderful Christian (non-Catholic) people during my visit.
Are there such things as Christian Japanese?
- Thread starter GoldCoinLover
- Start date
- 15 Mar 2002
- 16,758
- 2,298
Tsuyoiko said:I have read his novel 'Silence'. I enjoyed it, because it looked into the difficulty of reconciling being Japanese with being Christian (specifically Catholic) - how the two often seem contradictory. The ending was good, but I won't give it away, 'cos anyone interested in this topic should read it.
The only books of his I have read were "Chichioya" and "Kaidanji Kaidanji", neither of which dealt with Christianity in any way whatsoever.
studyonline
後輩
- 2 Jul 2005
- 84
- 2
Basically, 90% of Japanese do not have any concept or interest in any religion at all. This may be hard to understand for people in the U.S. or other religious people, but I don't think Japanese people even talk about a religion.
It doesn't matter to them what other people believe. People over there are too busy with other things and have no time to discuss or even think about a religion. Any religious topic leads a huge argument or discussion in the U.S., but you won't see that in Japan.
What do they believe then? My best answer would be "nothing". It is hard to believe but that's the reality. Just like you have no interest in playing baby toys any more for example, they have 0 interest in any religion.
It doesn't matter to them what other people believe. People over there are too busy with other things and have no time to discuss or even think about a religion. Any religious topic leads a huge argument or discussion in the U.S., but you won't see that in Japan.
What do they believe then? My best answer would be "nothing". It is hard to believe but that's the reality. Just like you have no interest in playing baby toys any more for example, they have 0 interest in any religion.
Elizabeth
先輩
- 22 Apr 2003
- 9,839
- 135
The closest I've seen to it are a few women involved in the traditional arts (tea ceremony , flower arranging or incense) who talk about wanting a deeper spiritual reality. But even they are for the most part just as focused on beauty, shopping and such petty materalism as your average Japanese person....studyonline said:
- 28 Jul 2005
- 5,238
- 172
Down in the Kiso area of Nagano Prefecture , there is a monument in a small grotto-like overhang for the 'hidden christians' of old. There are a number of post towns there where the road going through to Nagoya ahd check points and such. There were 'closet' Christians there then.
I have met and taught a number of Japanese nationals who were Christian (both protestant and Roman Catholic) and some of them do talk some about their religion--esp. the JWs. Recently (the past three months) I have notice an outcropping of little black metal signs posted obscurely on barn and shed walls announcing 'Christ this, "God" that'. . . these are surely by national protestants. I always get a kind of 'reach for a can of spray paint' feeling when I see a new one.
I knew of Sugihara san's work for the Jews, but somehow missed his being Christian--thanks for the informative input lexico
I have met and taught a number of Japanese nationals who were Christian (both protestant and Roman Catholic) and some of them do talk some about their religion--esp. the JWs. Recently (the past three months) I have notice an outcropping of little black metal signs posted obscurely on barn and shed walls announcing 'Christ this, "God" that'. . . these are surely by national protestants. I always get a kind of 'reach for a can of spray paint' feeling when I see a new one.
I knew of Sugihara san's work for the Jews, but somehow missed his being Christian--thanks for the informative input lexico
mononokifool
後輩
- 11 Aug 2005
- 32
- 0
- 28 Jul 2005
- 5,238
- 172
mononokifool said:
That is very interesting. There are Shinto wedding ceremonies, however, just not as fashionable. As I have mentioned in another post on a different thread, unfortunately, I have tied the knot twice. The first one was Shinto style. I drank the sake--three soft sips--read the folded scroll paper of declaration--I had to memorize it completely,'cause I couldn't read the darn writing. The reception was also typical Japanese style...getting off the subject. They do have both.
- 28 Jul 2005
- 5,238
- 172
Buntaro said:
Thanks for the interest Buntaro ! I'll be honest because I really, really think it's important--and with honesty, openess.
I can't really say that religion as a system of belief or teaching or what have you, really played any role in the weddings. Perhaps the first time 'round was due to the ex-parents-in-law's wishes, and the second to mine. I still wouldn't say that the 'Christian' wedding thing was because I was so into the Christian thing at that particular moment (I had been in the earlier past) but may have been more to the feeling (only a feeling) that since the first one didn't work out, it may have been the wrong way to tie the knot. Both times were here in Japan. My mother and youngest sister were at the second one, nobody was at the first. The Shinto style is interesting in its own rights--perhaps more so than the Christian style. And we used a real church with a real pastor, not one of these commercial things where it's all just an enactment.
Yes, both times were with Japanese girls, then and now. This time is going in its 17.75 year now.
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- 27 Dec 2003
- 2,854
- 2,103
Mars Man!
Thanks for sharing your story. It sounds like it was fascinating.
Actually, I was asking about the marriage, not the wedding. I am curious as to how religion affected your relationship with your wives; the effect of religion on both of your belief systems, and the conduct of your everyday life. Especially considering the intercultural aspect of the marriages, and how people say religion is not a factor in most Japanese peoples' lives (I don't believe that).
Thanks for sharing your story. It sounds like it was fascinating.
Actually, I was asking about the marriage, not the wedding. I am curious as to how religion affected your relationship with your wives; the effect of religion on both of your belief systems, and the conduct of your everyday life. Especially considering the intercultural aspect of the marriages, and how people say religion is not a factor in most Japanese peoples' lives (I don't believe that).
canadian_kor
Thrill Seeker
- 19 Jun 2004
- 225
- 2
I'm sure some people wonder why in Korea there are so many Christians and Japan has so few - despite their shared racial, linguistic, cultural, and animist backgrounds. Here is an interesting set of articles to read:
Find & Play the Best Online Casinos in 2020 - Rick's Picks
The interesting thing is that Korean shamanism and Japanese Shintoism come from the same source - Tungusic animist religion. What happened in Korea should have happened in Japan as well but the reality shows otherwise.
Find & Play the Best Online Casinos in 2020 - Rick's Picks
The interesting thing is that Korean shamanism and Japanese Shintoism come from the same source - Tungusic animist religion. What happened in Korea should have happened in Japan as well but the reality shows otherwise.
- 27 Dec 2003
- 2,854
- 2,103
canadian_kor,
You said, "I'm sure some people wonder why in Korea there are so many Christians and Japan has so few - despite their shared racial, linguistic, cultural, and animist backgrounds. Here is an interesting set of articles to read:"
--> I was unable to find the quote on the above-mentioned webpage that supports your supposition. Which page is it on?
You said, "I'm sure some people wonder why in Korea there are so many Christians and Japan has so few - despite their shared racial, linguistic, cultural, and animist backgrounds. Here is an interesting set of articles to read:"
--> I was unable to find the quote on the above-mentioned webpage that supports your supposition. Which page is it on?
- 28 Jul 2005
- 5,238
- 172
Good morning there Buntaro !! May the force be with you !! No, actually I'm not a big Starwars fan, but just like to use different wordings at times.
OH... I see. I guess the past tense had thrown my mind in that 'past' direction, so I ended up with 'wedding'. My first marriage was not with the in-laws; we lived seperately, and neither of us were so religiously 'active' at that time. Yes, I had my Bible, and I read it and used it and practiced the general 'Christian' things without going to church or what have you. (I didn't think, even then, that one needed to belong to some organization or 'system', if you will). There were no conflicts in that area there, just other essential differences that totaled up to an 'end'.
In this present marriage, there were some problems at first because we lived here at the house with her mother and sisters. I had no problems with the butsudan thing (a few Roman Catholics I know keep one) but I didn't make things like putting out fruit and such, a policy. I didn't keep dates for doing certain things like cleaning the grave site on this day (it could be anytime, and should be done all the time anyway, I thought), or burning the three scrolled pieces of bark on the Obon 'homecoming' day and so on. The little lady (I don't like using the possessive "my wife" type language, and at the moment want to keep her name over there) just went along with what her mom said, without any thought. Later, she became somewhat involved with the Jehovah's Witnesses (and I'll admit, I was partly to blame for that because I did too, for a short while) and I had to pull her out of that one, and then there was no problem. I'm very much into nature and natural random facts (as best they be known) at the moment for my spiritual well-being, and she is somewhat there with me, but not full-heartedly. That's about it, I guess. I would say that those little, almost unconscious, instilled cultural norms of thinking are the worry-worts in international marriage.
See you 'round
OH... I see. I guess the past tense had thrown my mind in that 'past' direction, so I ended up with 'wedding'. My first marriage was not with the in-laws; we lived seperately, and neither of us were so religiously 'active' at that time. Yes, I had my Bible, and I read it and used it and practiced the general 'Christian' things without going to church or what have you. (I didn't think, even then, that one needed to belong to some organization or 'system', if you will). There were no conflicts in that area there, just other essential differences that totaled up to an 'end'.
In this present marriage, there were some problems at first because we lived here at the house with her mother and sisters. I had no problems with the butsudan thing (a few Roman Catholics I know keep one) but I didn't make things like putting out fruit and such, a policy. I didn't keep dates for doing certain things like cleaning the grave site on this day (it could be anytime, and should be done all the time anyway, I thought), or burning the three scrolled pieces of bark on the Obon 'homecoming' day and so on. The little lady (I don't like using the possessive "my wife" type language, and at the moment want to keep her name over there) just went along with what her mom said, without any thought. Later, she became somewhat involved with the Jehovah's Witnesses (and I'll admit, I was partly to blame for that because I did too, for a short while) and I had to pull her out of that one, and then there was no problem. I'm very much into nature and natural random facts (as best they be known) at the moment for my spiritual well-being, and she is somewhat there with me, but not full-heartedly. That's about it, I guess. I would say that those little, almost unconscious, instilled cultural norms of thinking are the worry-worts in international marriage.
See you 'round
- 27 Dec 2003
- 2,854
- 2,103
Mars Man san!
Thanks for sharing your story. It is always fascinating to hear how couples handle these situations.
One of the facts of life is that people change over the years. (That is a good thing, isn't it...?) It is a given fact that, over time, two people will change their religious opinions, and, at times, that can mean the two people will grow apart religiously. This can lead to friction, sometimes a little, sometimes a lot. It sounds like you two have been able to work things out, even though you two seem to have had more religious "growing" (changing) over the years than most people. (Pulling her away from the JW's sounds kind of spooky.) I am glad to hear that all is OK.
I wish all other couples were so lucky, but that is not always the case. It is very sad to hear of couples where one person will make radical changes (to the disgust of the other person), or where one partner starts making unreasonable religious demands on the other person. However, I guess that is what marriage is all about: learning to make the changes and adjustments as the decades go by.
Thanks for sharing your story. It is always fascinating to hear how couples handle these situations.
One of the facts of life is that people change over the years. (That is a good thing, isn't it...?) It is a given fact that, over time, two people will change their religious opinions, and, at times, that can mean the two people will grow apart religiously. This can lead to friction, sometimes a little, sometimes a lot. It sounds like you two have been able to work things out, even though you two seem to have had more religious "growing" (changing) over the years than most people. (Pulling her away from the JW's sounds kind of spooky.) I am glad to hear that all is OK.
I wish all other couples were so lucky, but that is not always the case. It is very sad to hear of couples where one person will make radical changes (to the disgust of the other person), or where one partner starts making unreasonable religious demands on the other person. However, I guess that is what marriage is all about: learning to make the changes and adjustments as the decades go by.
- 28 Jul 2005
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Buntaro said:
Thanks there Buntaro !! You're welcome. I hear you, brother, I hear you. . . ain't that the truth !!
Oh, I just got something from a friend that's very funny which I'll share with you via priv.msg, cause it's a humorous bit from the people at Quantas Airline. Catch you later!!
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- 28 Jul 2005
- 5,238
- 172
Greetings there my fellow Martian !!
I'm glad to hear that you may also be into nature the way I am; maybe the way I am. It's kind of difficult to put into words, and it may be better by PM rather than at this location, but in brief. . .
I have enjoyed being in nature since highschool, I guess. I was very much into spelunking and rock climbing, as well as hiking and cycling. Some of the time I spent and experienced in those deep, cold and wet caverns, gave me a kind of high. Well, time went by, and through all other things, my religious periods as well, I kept an eye on the nature and what it meant to humanity. Especially as I formulated my present 'religious' views, if you will, I fully realized what I think is so important and true. We humans are as much within nature as an extension of nature. Human society has tried so hard--and I'd say that the Abrahamic Faiths are greatly to blame--to put the homo sapien at the top of the rung in such a way as to attempt to exclude ourselves from the totality of nature itself. This, in my opinion, has been one grave mistake on our part. I am trying to undo that falsity within my own realm. I am trying to feel totally at home with what we are and how we are naturally.
Human intelligence, of course may well be said to have the upper hand, but we should not then simply treat all other life forms as 'animals'--if you catch my drift. Also I enjoy being simply natural in nature too--a great hard to find, a little off the beaten path outdoor hot spring bath will do wonders for the 'spirit' (I don't use this term in the normal way). Science is also very important for learning of nature I feel, so I make an honest effort to keep up with all the latest findings, theories, and so on.
Well, maybe that's enough for this spot. I will fill you in later by PM.
signing off, Mars Man
I'm glad to hear that you may also be into nature the way I am; maybe the way I am. It's kind of difficult to put into words, and it may be better by PM rather than at this location, but in brief. . .
I have enjoyed being in nature since highschool, I guess. I was very much into spelunking and rock climbing, as well as hiking and cycling. Some of the time I spent and experienced in those deep, cold and wet caverns, gave me a kind of high. Well, time went by, and through all other things, my religious periods as well, I kept an eye on the nature and what it meant to humanity. Especially as I formulated my present 'religious' views, if you will, I fully realized what I think is so important and true. We humans are as much within nature as an extension of nature. Human society has tried so hard--and I'd say that the Abrahamic Faiths are greatly to blame--to put the homo sapien at the top of the rung in such a way as to attempt to exclude ourselves from the totality of nature itself. This, in my opinion, has been one grave mistake on our part. I am trying to undo that falsity within my own realm. I am trying to feel totally at home with what we are and how we are naturally.
Human intelligence, of course may well be said to have the upper hand, but we should not then simply treat all other life forms as 'animals'--if you catch my drift. Also I enjoy being simply natural in nature too--a great hard to find, a little off the beaten path outdoor hot spring bath will do wonders for the 'spirit' (I don't use this term in the normal way). Science is also very important for learning of nature I feel, so I make an honest effort to keep up with all the latest findings, theories, and so on.
Well, maybe that's enough for this spot. I will fill you in later by PM.
signing off, Mars Man
- 13 Aug 2005
- 47
- 4
if y'all want to know a little more about the conceptualization of Catholicism in japan, you should check out a man named "yoshimitsu yoshihiko". he has written a fair amount on it.
in addition, the author of rashomon, akutagawa ryuunosuke, could have been a Christian or perhaps evenCatholic, believe it or not. scholars aren't quite sure yet. he wrote an essay (or rather a series of descriptions) of who he thought the japanese Jesus would be and what he conceived of other Christian characters/concepts, and has a very interesting take on Catholicism. this work is known as "saihou no hito". akutagawa commited suicide (which is of course against Christian teachings), but when his body was found, he was reading the Bible. "saihou no hito", to my knowledge, has not yet been published in english, and it is considerably un-popular compared to his other works, but i believe that is because not many people are interested in whether he was Christian or not...
sono ayako is also a very interesting Catholic writer in japan. i highly recommend the book "tenjou no ao" or "no reason for murder" (english title).
in addition, the author of rashomon, akutagawa ryuunosuke, could have been a Christian or perhaps evenCatholic, believe it or not. scholars aren't quite sure yet. he wrote an essay (or rather a series of descriptions) of who he thought the japanese Jesus would be and what he conceived of other Christian characters/concepts, and has a very interesting take on Catholicism. this work is known as "saihou no hito". akutagawa commited suicide (which is of course against Christian teachings), but when his body was found, he was reading the Bible. "saihou no hito", to my knowledge, has not yet been published in english, and it is considerably un-popular compared to his other works, but i believe that is because not many people are interested in whether he was Christian or not...
sono ayako is also a very interesting Catholic writer in japan. i highly recommend the book "tenjou no ao" or "no reason for murder" (english title).
- 13 Aug 2005
- 47
- 4
Mars Man said:Greetings there my fellow Martian !!
I'm glad to hear that you may also be into nature the way I am; maybe the way I am. It's kind of difficult to put into words, and it may be better by PM rather than at this location, but in brief. . .
I have enjoyed being in nature since highschool, I guess. I was very much into spelunking and rock climbing, as well as hiking and cycling. Some of the time I spent and experienced in those deep, cold and wet caverns, gave me a kind of high. Well, time went by, and through all other things, my religious periods as well, I kept an eye on the nature and what it meant to humanity. Especially as I formulated my present 'religious' views, if you will, I fully realized what I think is so important and true. We humans are as much within nature as an extension of nature. Human society has tried so hard--and I'd say that the Abrahamic Faiths are greatly to blame--to put the homo sapien at the top of the rung in such a way as to attempt to exclude ourselves from the totality of nature itself. This, in my opinion, has been one grave mistake on our part. I am trying to undo that falsity within my own realm. I am trying to feel totally at home with what we are and how we are naturally.
Human intelligence, of course may well be said to have the upper hand, but we should not then simply treat all other life forms as 'animals'--if you catch my drift. Also I enjoy being simply natural in nature too--a great hard to find, a little off the beaten path outdoor hot spring bath will do wonders for the 'spirit' (I don't use this term in the normal way). Science is also very important for learning of nature I feel, so I make an honest effort to keep up with all the latest findings, theories, and so on.
Well, maybe that's enough for this spot. I will fill you in later by PM.
signing off, Mars Man
mars man, i have a nagging suspicion that what you're talking about is an earth-based religion. in other words, pagan. i'm not meaning to seem hostile towards paganism, but i'm just curious why you've turned in that direction. i don't see myself as in nature or an extension of nature. i am a part of nature, but i recognize that nature is governed by a higher Lord.
would be interested to hear more about your religious/spiritual beliefs
- 28 Jul 2005
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Hello there Blue_Suede_Shoes !! Hope all's going well for you. . . !
Now, assuming that the dates posted at the top left of these posts are correct, and I think they usually are, it has been a while since I've dropped in on this one--and maybe it was the spirit, huh?
If by pagan or paganisam you mean one who is not a Christian, then yes, I am pagan. If you mean one who has no religion, when religion is defined as: a belief in a superhuman power or powers to be obeyed and worshiped as the creator(s) and ruler(s) of the universe. , then yes, I am pagan. If you meant someone who is a non-Christian, though having in some fashion or degree, a religion where religion is defined as: any system of beliefs, practices, ethical values, etc. resembling, suggestive of, or likened to such a system [humanism as a religion] then I am not a pagan. (The above are from the Second College Edition of Webster's New World Dictionary of the American Language)
I agree that one could correctly say we are parts of nature; just as every part of nature is a part of nature. I would personally go further and say that we could be seen as extensions of nature just as well, in that when focusing in on any element of nature as a subject while all else is being held constant for that moment of study, that being looked at is an extension of nature. A human being is no less an element of nature than the planet itself, and no greater an element than a single electron--just in a different class. I'm not referring to complexity here, just the fact of being natural.
Nature could well be governed by a 'higher lord' or 'mind', I just don't know at the moment. As for where I stand on religious/spiritual beliefs, please give me some time to think of how I'd like to relay that information. I could use PM (here's not the place, of course) but that's so limited in space; it's hard to develop an argument. I keep pretty constant tab on the 'Christianity:Conceptions / misconceptions' thread under 'Serious Discussions'. And I started one thread there, 'biblical text: explication & discussion which I'm still building onto--others occasionally joining in in various ways. You may want to check out those spots. Let me give it some thought, and PM you, if that's o.k., and let you know where I decied to put it. Is that o.k.? I'd like to protect the theme of this one. See you !!
Now, assuming that the dates posted at the top left of these posts are correct, and I think they usually are, it has been a while since I've dropped in on this one--and maybe it was the spirit, huh?
If by pagan or paganisam you mean one who is not a Christian, then yes, I am pagan. If you mean one who has no religion, when religion is defined as: a belief in a superhuman power or powers to be obeyed and worshiped as the creator(s) and ruler(s) of the universe. , then yes, I am pagan. If you meant someone who is a non-Christian, though having in some fashion or degree, a religion where religion is defined as: any system of beliefs, practices, ethical values, etc. resembling, suggestive of, or likened to such a system [humanism as a religion] then I am not a pagan. (The above are from the Second College Edition of Webster's New World Dictionary of the American Language)
I agree that one could correctly say we are parts of nature; just as every part of nature is a part of nature. I would personally go further and say that we could be seen as extensions of nature just as well, in that when focusing in on any element of nature as a subject while all else is being held constant for that moment of study, that being looked at is an extension of nature. A human being is no less an element of nature than the planet itself, and no greater an element than a single electron--just in a different class. I'm not referring to complexity here, just the fact of being natural.
Nature could well be governed by a 'higher lord' or 'mind', I just don't know at the moment. As for where I stand on religious/spiritual beliefs, please give me some time to think of how I'd like to relay that information. I could use PM (here's not the place, of course) but that's so limited in space; it's hard to develop an argument. I keep pretty constant tab on the 'Christianity:Conceptions / misconceptions' thread under 'Serious Discussions'. And I started one thread there, 'biblical text: explication & discussion which I'm still building onto--others occasionally joining in in various ways. You may want to check out those spots. Let me give it some thought, and PM you, if that's o.k., and let you know where I decied to put it. Is that o.k.? I'd like to protect the theme of this one. See you !!
- 13 Aug 2005
- 47
- 4
sorry i haven't posted here for a while. mars_man, that sounds fine, whichever you decide to do (PMing is fine for me. although i haven't used that feature yet i'm sure i won't have any difficulties w/ it) i'll check out those threads, they sound pretty interesting!
as far as how i was conceiving of pagan, i mean a religion such as wiccan or druidry. i think that's how those groups define pagan--as a religion that has multiple deities and worships the earth and its constituent parts. i'm not entirely sure, though...
as far as how i was conceiving of pagan, i mean a religion such as wiccan or druidry. i think that's how those groups define pagan--as a religion that has multiple deities and worships the earth and its constituent parts. i'm not entirely sure, though...
Kintaro
人間と人形は同じ。
- 30 Jun 2003
- 103
- 4
As a semi-related but probably worthy of its own derail:
Given the premise that "We don't talk about our religion in public.", wouldn't it be offensive for people (whether Japanese or not) interact with you in ways that are presumptious of your stance on religion and its beliefs ? (White Seiyoujin [yes, we know they'd use gaijin] = christian)
Like scheduling days off without your consent (especially when you need money), or someone buying you a cross pendant, who knows, anything, this is a general premise, and not anything specific, nor directly related to me.
And if such situations occur, do people make distinctions between atheism and precepts such as immorality, and things that are unethical ? Both the Center and the West have a very bad track record for tolerating and distinguishing either of those concepts. How is it in the East, or in Japan in particular, despîte the default being to attempt to not do anything to set off those things, when it does happen ?
Given the premise that "We don't talk about our religion in public.", wouldn't it be offensive for people (whether Japanese or not) interact with you in ways that are presumptious of your stance on religion and its beliefs ? (White Seiyoujin [yes, we know they'd use gaijin] = christian)
Like scheduling days off without your consent (especially when you need money), or someone buying you a cross pendant, who knows, anything, this is a general premise, and not anything specific, nor directly related to me.
And if such situations occur, do people make distinctions between atheism and precepts such as immorality, and things that are unethical ? Both the Center and the West have a very bad track record for tolerating and distinguishing either of those concepts. How is it in the East, or in Japan in particular, despîte the default being to attempt to not do anything to set off those things, when it does happen ?
