An Unforeseen Issue: Opinions Sought

[Mike Cash]

I have been translating some short stories recently and have encountered what is essentially an editorial problem....and I have no editor.

My problem is the use of title-pronouns in family settings. Stories are usually told with the main character as a reference point in the family relations (even third person narratives), with younger siblings being introduced and referred to by name. No problem there. Older siblings are referred to in the narration as &#2 2985; and &#2 0804; and, of course, addressed in dialogue as お&#2 2985;さん or お&#2 0804;さん. You can get all the way through the story and NEVER find out what their names are.

I had never noticed this as a problem when just reading Japanese for casual reading, as I don't translate when I do that. But now that I'm trying to translate the stories, it is turning into a real problem. You can't just keep saying "xxxx's elder brother" or "yyyy's older sister" over and over and over. Once or twice here and there is fine, and even helps to refresh memories on the family relations.

Some ideas I have had:

1. Just insert a name appropriate for the era.

2. Use "Ani" and "Ane" in narration and "Oniisan" and "Oneesan" in dialogue.

If I do #2 , should I include a brief footnote after the first usage of each? Or should I create a separate foreword to explain what I'm doing there (and perhaps why)?

Any other ideas for how this might be handled?

This is all public domain material, so the authors are all long dead and gone. There is nobody to consult as far as they're concerned and I am actually free to handle it in any way I want to.

My own strongest inclination is to just create names for characters who are missing them, as the use of names would be the most natural for English and would be less jarring to the reader.

Any constructive ideas or advice would be appreciated.

 

[Mark of Zorro]

I do not envy you your problem.

I was thinking I would do both basically.

These must be, of course, Japanese stories, so I think the readers, the people who chose these Japanese stories, would like to know these basic Japanese words and the simple cultural point of their usage in speech. I would not use Oniisan and Oneesan in narration however, but would make up some names and switch between using X's sister and Y's brother and their new names.

Very sparsely I would use "big sister" and "big brother" in both narration and in quotes, where appropriate, because this is the way it is in English. Usually we just say sister or brother, but sometimes someone might say "Come on! You are the big brother here!" or something like that.

I think the key is to straddle the middle ground and introduce some new words and concepts, yet, keep people in their comfort zone. Overuse of new words will annoy some readers and plain old constant repetition I think is annoying to native English speakers in general.

Whatever you decide, good luck. Its going to be a job whatever you decide because you will need to pay close attention to context with each decision.

Edit: About the footnotes, my vote is for using them just as you posited.

 

[Mike Cash]

Thanks, Mark. Those are some good points.

 

[Dotanbatan]

My inclination would be to try and keep the nuances of the relationships that exist in the interactions of Japanese family life by using:

2. - "Ani" and "Ane" in narration and "Oniisan" and "Oneesan" in dialogue.

I would include a footnote on the page the above words are first used on, but not too brief .... give a background, stating the reason you are keeping the Japanese terms.

I think using `elder sister ` and `elder brother ` repeatedly would sound odd and detract from the narrative.

The use of appropriate names for the siblings could work if you apply them carefully, but there`s a big danger it could change the `feel` and nuance of the author`s original work more than you would perhaps wish.

Sorry if this confuses the issue further for you!!

 

[Mike Cash]

Not at all; your input is valued.

In the first couple of stories I did, they were rather short and the "elder xxx" only came up a couple of times as they were either minor figures or only mentioned somewhat parenthetically. I'm doing a longer one now where an elder brother, elder brother's wife, and elder sister all figure into the story and speak quite a bit....and none of them are named.

Another minor quirk that I really can't do anything about and which oddly doesn't even stand out when you read the stories in Japanese is that there is a lot of going from very short, very sparse sentences to incredibly long, incredibly convoluted flowery sentences and back again. That is rather jarring in English. But these are literary works so I don't want to take too many undue liberties with them stylistically.

 

[killerinsidee]

I don't know how qualified I am to give some input, but here are my thoughts on this issue.

I would go for the "Ani" and "Ane" in narration and "Oniisan" and "Oneesan" in dialogue. Making up some names doesn't feel right. As Mark of Zorro-san said, the majority of the people who will read this probably know about very basic things. This is especially true in your case because you seem to be translating some older stories (possibly 文語文), rather than some manga. The readers without any knowledge of Japanese culture/language should be rare.
Judging from various people who I know that are interested in parts of the Japanese culture and myself (before studying Japanese), the most common things people pick up passively are: pronouns + honorifics and basic 挨拶.

About "oniisan" vs "elder brother" - while "elder brother" is obviously better from the English point of view, in your (extreme) case I would be more annoyed reading "elder brother" over and over than "oniisan". I've seen some some official translation works that use oniichan, etc. rather than "brother".
Adding a short note about the honorifics is a good idea, in case you decide to go with Ani/Ane. I've even seen some visual novels (official and unofficial TL) include a .pdf file with a basic glossary, mainly for honorifics and 挨拶, etc.

There's probably no "right way" in these cases, but trying too hard to make it work in English can really backfire. I still have nightmares from things like

= いただきます.

 

[Mike Cash]

Thanks for your input. There only qualification I'm looking for is that you be a person who reads.

I think in the end, whatever way I do this has to be done in a way that is not obtrusive to the reading experience.

I've seen enough threads here from writers who are writing about Japanese characters/settings (despite never having been here or knowing beans about their subject, apparently) and who want to spice up their text with superfluous Japanese phrases, honorifics, vocabulary, etc that I really really really want to avoid being anything like them. So I am trying to keep that sort of thing to a bare minimum. I want the stories to come through on their own merits without pumping up their "exoticness" by gratuitous overuse of Japanese vocabulary.

Thanks for that image with the wretched translation on it. That is something I am consciously trying to avoid as well. It will serve as a reminder of what NOT to do.

 

[killerinsidee]

Yeah, I agree with that. However, "I think in the end, whatever way I do this has to be done in a way that is not obtrusive to the reading experience." is kind of a thin line. I don't know if you ever compared official translation works to the source material, but they also try to do that and it turns into "making stuff up" or adding/removing text as they please and just hope the ignorant masses won't notice a thing, i.e., putting it under the rug.
This isn't directly related to your issue, but just to give you an idea what sort of crazy things official translators do.
Some examples I've ran into last week.
1 - questionable translation + writing what they want - vs
2 - text outright missing - →
3 - It's clearly "resistant to fire attacks", but they translate it as if someone is good at using fire attacks, also first line missing vs
There are much worse things I've seen, but these are the most recent.
There's no way to even notice these things unless you 1. have both texts available 2. know both languages to compare, i.e., even if someone does a translation like this, it will go unnoticed for the most part.

I admire you for trying to make it better than some of these error-ridden works. Believe me, most of the "official translators" don't have the "dilemmas" you have, or plainly don't care.

 

[Mike Cash]

What I meant was I want to avoid things that snap the reader out of the spell of reading. I think we have all experienced being really into a text and then have something jar us back into a consciousness that we're reading. Where the original doesn't intentionally jar the reader, the translation shouldn't either,

 

[killerinsidee]

Ah, I see. Guess I went off-topic for a bit then, my bad.

 

[Mike Cash]

Not at all. I'm glad to have your sincere input.