News Abe's controversial state funeral

[Lothor]

Where is this exemplary service- where she awarded the Royal Family millions of dollars and wrote provisions into legislation to ensure everything benefits the Royal Family and the tyrannical control of the family. The main people who care about her passing are the media as they are losing an easy show.

The first point I agree with, though it's unrelated to whether or not the Queen did her job well. Most republicans recognise that she did what she was expected to do as a Queen well even if they strongly opposed the existence of her role. I also think you have to give credit to someone who was working (and having to deal with a succession of increasingly awful prime ministers!) up to two days of her death at the age of 96.

Judging from the enormous queues to visit the Queen in state and the crowds that lined the streets in London and Edinburgh and on the final journey to Windsor, as well as my own observations as a member of a Facebook group for British people in Japan, I think it's impossible to conclude that it was only the media who cared about her, though the Royal Family have been a great excuse for them to fill their newspapers and websites (and shame on so many of us Brits for providing the demand for such fluff).

 

[Lothor]

Number of state-funeral-related self-immolations:

Abe (1) : Queen (0)

Clearly, Abe's the winner. His score would probably be higher if we compared them based on corruption or divisiveness.

Anyhow, one LDP member, Murakami Seiichiro, a former Cabinet member and Abe critic, came forward and chastised his fellow LDP lawmakers for remaining silent on the issue.

In rare move, LDP lawmaker criticizes state funeral for Abe | The Asahi Shimbun: Breaking News, Japan News and Analysis

I assume he's got nothing to lose politically, but it shows that there's simmering dissent even within LDP ranks.

I like the way you turned the state funerals into a football result!

 

[thomas]

The NYT on why most Japanese are angry and why Abe was lionized abroad but seen as much more divisive in his home country.

"Mr. Kishida's support rate is dropping, but support for the opposition parties hasn't gone up," he said. "The public is upset. They're uncertain. I guess they're just at a loss for what to do." Protest organizers said they held out hope that the public would be galvanized. Nahoko Hishiyama, 33, an organizer of the large protest in Yoyogi Park and secretary general of a grass-roots organization that opposes a proposal by Mr. Abe to revise the pacifist Constitution, said activists could target city and prefectural elections to put pressure on the national government. "The Japanese," she said, "need to think of themselves as people who, if they raise their voices, can change things."

Why Japan Is Angry About a State Funeral for an Assassinated Leader (Published 2022)

The fallout from Shinzo Abe’s death has taken a number of unexpected turns, casting a critical light on both his long-governing party and a fringe religious group.

www.nytimes.com

And why Abe's funeral costs more than the Queen's state funeral last week.

'Why is Abe's funeral costing more than the Queen's?' - BBC News

The mood in Japan is sour ahead of Tuesday's state funeral for the slain former prime minister.

www.bbc.com

 

[thomas]

And Trudeau is out: it seems he's realised that he'd be the only G7 leader to attend and that the whole affair has turned into something nasty no sane politician wants to be associated with. When Abe was shot, Trudeau stated, "The world has lost a great man of vision, and Canada has lost a close friend." Now Trudeau said he would instead stay in Canada to respond to the devastation caused by powerful storm Fiona.

Trudeau to skip Abe's state funeral | NHK WORLD-JAPAN News

Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has announced that he will not be attending the state funeral of former Japanese Prime Minister Abe Shinzo. Trudeau said he will instead stay in Canada to respond to the devastation caused by powerful storm Fiona.

www3.nhk.or.jp

 

[Tokyo Guy]

I decided to open a new thread on the topic, as the coming weeks will bring more discussion and protests.

Yesterday, 4,000 people gathered around the Diet building in Tokyo and - wow - some local media reported it.

​

It's great to see young and old united in their criticism. Their arguments - inconsistent policies, waste of taxes in the light of the pandemic - will be particularly hard to refute (see below).

Thousands rally in Tokyo to protest state funeral for Abe | The Asahi Shimbun: Breaking News, Japan News and Analysis

Meanwhile, PM Kishida pledged to 'squarely' respond to state funeral criticism. Let's see if he can square the circle.

Kishida pledges to ‘squarely’ respond to Abe funeral criticism | The Asahi Shimbun: Breaking News, Japan News and Analysis

The State funeral is good for 3 reasons. First, it keeps the discussion on matters Japanese need to be talking about; religion and politics. Next, Abe is well - respected internationally. Final reason is that many loved him, but that does not get mentioned in the news. The Queen of England committed atrocities for centuries, but then she / them claim they paid their victims back for it! Arrogance. Even she was afforded a funeral fit for a Queen, Abe is just as deserving, if not more.

 

[thomas]

I do agree with the notion that the "state funeral" (it's actually a memorial service) keeps the public discourse alive, which could lead to some political catharsis (though I'm doubtful). Also, it will help establish Abe's true legacy, which will probably differ from what the ruling party wants to see.

And yes, I guess there are still a few people who love him (for whatever reasons). However, let's not forget Abe was the PM who

• Bailed out twice (2007, 2020) for "health reasons" when the political mess he created threatened to boil over.
• Was involved in several cases of cronyism and corruption, the most prominent of which was the heavily discounted sale of state land to Moritomo Gakuen, a school operator linked to his wife, Akie.
• Instigated bureaucrats to falsify public documents. One official linked to the case later killed himself and his widow, being paid damages from the government that ensured details would not be revealed.
• Lied 113 times when questioned during Diet sessions.
• Jeopardised relations with neighbours South Korea and China (during his tenure, Japan's relationship with both nations deteriorated to its worst level in decades).
• Completely failed with his economic chimaera dubbed "Abenomics".
• etc., etc., etc.

His hawkish, nationalist stance and attempts at historical revisionism alienated him from most of the Japanese population.

Deserving? Hardly.


Prof Nakano Koichi from Sophia University on Abe's three biggest scandals: Moritomo, Kake, and the Sakura party. In Japanese with English subtitles.

​

 

[Tokyo Guy]

His hawkish, nationalist stance and attempts at historical revisionism alienated him from most of the Japanese population.

Deserving? Hardly.

Nothing wrong with this stance. Historical revisionism is what every country has a history of doing. Most of the Japanese population are historical revisionist and conservative. Hone and tatamae. Try reading about the good in Abe instead of all the negative. This is stuff you pulled off Wikipedia looks like.

 

[thomas]

Nothing wrong with this stance. Historical revisionism is what every country has a history of doing. Most of the Japanese population are historical revisionist and conservative. Hone and tatamae. Try reading about the good in Abe instead of all the negative. This is stuff you pulled off Wikipedia looks like.

Let's face it: Japan has never been good at dealing with its past. If historical revisionism means further whitewashing and ignoring, I see no merit in it. The points above were "pulled off" last week's newspaper articles (Japan Times, Asahi, Mainichi, and even if it came off Wikipedia, it would still hold true).

Feel free to post more about the "good".

 

[Tokyo Guy]

Let's face it: Japan has never been good at dealing with its past. If historical revisionism means further whitewashing and ignoring, I see no merit in it. The points above were "pulled off" last week's newspaper articles (Japan Times, Asahi, Mainichi, and even if it came off Wikipedia, it would still hold true).

Feel free to post more about the "good".

Again, no different than any other country and its leaders. Abe san did the right thing for his country by not asserting his presence in the international community and standing up for his people at home.

 

[thomas]

I guess if it were customary in Japan to hold state funerals for all former PMs, no one would mind Abe's service tomorrow. If I remember correctly, only one Japanese PM had a state funeral post-WWII, and he'd received the Nobel Peace Prize. So elevating Abe to such heights seems to send the wrong signal in the historical context of post-war Japan. However, as you mentioned above, the importance of publicly discussing the role of politics and religion in Japan cannot be overstated.

 

[Tokyo Guy]

I guess if it were customary in Japan to hold state funerals for all former PMs, no one would mind Abe's service tomorrow. If I remember correctly, only one Japanese PM had a state funeral post-WWII, and he'd received the Nobel Peace Prize. So elevating Abe to such heights seems to send the wrong signal in the historical context of post-war Japan. However, as you mentioned above, the importance of publicly discussing the role of politics and religion in Japan cannot be overstated.

Wrong historical context by whose standard? Japanese parents do not and should not teach Western revisionist history to their children much like Anglo Saxon parenting teaches their own children to deny the consequences of slavery and reparations.

 

[Petaris]

Wrong historical context by whose standard? Japanese parents do not and should not teach Western revisionist history to their children much like Anglo Saxon parenting teaches their own children to deny the consequences of slavery and reparations.

What? @thomas is talking about Japanese revisionist history, not "Western". He was trying to deny things happened that clearly happened and those were things about Japan. This wasn't some "Western" influence trying to get Japanese people to believe something.

 

[Tokyo Guy]

What? @thomas is talking about Japanese revisionist history, not "Western". He was trying to deny things happened that clearly happened and those were things about Japan. This wasn't some "Western" influence trying to get Japanese people to believe something.

It is a reinterpretation by Western Academics to decide what Japanese should recognize as correct history.

 

[Lothor]

The key point of having a state funeral is that it recognises the feelings of the majority of the people in the state. Regardless of the historical crimes of Imperial Britain (which I'm not arguing with you against), the Queen was admired or at least respected by the majority of British people and considered to have devoted herself to public service in a way that the transparently self-serving Abe didn't. Abe does not have that majority respect, as opinion polls show. This event has been foisted on an unwilling Japanese public with no consultation. It's very revealing that NHK is now stressing the "funeral diplomacy" aspect, a tacit admission that the memorial itself is of little value.

 

[mdchachi]

The key point of having a state funeral is that it recognises the feelings of the majority of the people in the state. Regardless of the historical crimes of Imperial Britain (which I'm not arguing with you against), the Queen was admired or at least respected by the majority of British people and considered to have devoted herself to public service in a way that the transparently self-serving Abe didn't. Abe does not have that majority respect, as opinion polls show. This event has been foisted on an unwilling Japanese public with no consultation. It's very revealing that NHK is now stressing the "funeral diplomacy" aspect, a tacit admission that the memorial itself is of little value.

It would also make sense if it follows tradition even if the majority didn't want it. But this goes against all tradition for former prime ministers.

 

[thomas]

This has nothing to do with Western or Eastern interpretation. In fact, a lot of Japanese historiology is highly critical of Japan's role in WWII. Neither the Japanese population nor the academia supported Abe's revisionist views.

And Abe's legacy, too, has nothing to do with interpretation or cultural relativism: the Japanese moral concept does not differ from "Western" concepts: corruption and lies are still wrong and undeserving of public veneration.

 

[Tokyo Guy]

The key point of having a state funeral is that it recognises the feelings of the majority of the people in the state. Regardless of the historical crimes of Imperial Britain (which I'm not arguing with you against), the Queen was admired or at least respected by the majority of British people and considered to have devoted herself to public service in a way that the transparently self-serving Abe didn't. Abe does not have that majority respect, as opinion polls show. This event has been foisted on an unwilling Japanese public with no consultation. It's very revealing that NHK is now stressing the "funeral diplomacy" aspect, a tacit admission that the memorial itself is of little value.

Then how is it possible for Mr. Abe to be elected as the longest serving prime minister in Japanese history then? Are you alluding that the elections were rigged? This is the culture of Japan . They are fake. They vote for Mr. Abe in private then scorn him in public just like the Moritomo scandal. How many people were involved in the approval process, and who contributed to this building of this school? Surely Mrs. Abe did not force the construction of an Emperor centered school on the general public, did she?

 

[Tokyo Guy]

This has nothing to do with Western or Eastern interpretation. In fact, a lot of Japanese historiology is highly critical of Japan's role in WWII. Neither the Japanese population nor the academia supported Abe's revisionist views.

And Abe's legacy, too, has nothing to do with interpretation or cultural relativism: the Japanese moral concept does not differ from "Western" concepts: corruption and lies are still wrong and undeserving of public veneration.

It is because over the last 10 years professors with relativist thought were dismissed from tenure. Kansai University dismissed a professor who had supported non-Western views on WW2. Most Japanese historiologist do not teach critical history anyway for fear of backlash.

 

[Lothor]

Tokyo Guy - you know the answer to the first question yourself. The LDP is a nest of vipers consisting of different factions that are far more interested in their power games than in running the country - leadership elections are the only time you see any animation from the LDP. The fact that nobody in the LDP felt it was the right time to challenge Abe for eight years does not make him a great leader. And longevity does not imply greatness - plenty of African leaders have been in power for decades and plundered their country. My own country is currently suffering the effects of 12 years of sociopathic Conservative government. In contrast, Nelson Mandela insisted from the outset that he would not serve more than two terms. That's greatness for you.

Regarding winning elections, being voted by about 25-30% of eligible voters is a country each time (about half of the 50% or so who bother to vote) is also not an indication of greatness.

I won't reply to your other questions, as I did not at any point imply that the elections were rigged, I have no idea how many people were involved in the approval process of Moritomo Gakuen or why you asked, and I don't understand the last question.

I've said everything I want to say about the subject - even thinking about Abe is something I find distasteful and I'll be avoiding the TV tomorrow - so I'll bow out of this thread. Good day to you.

 

[thomas]

I've said everything I want to say about the subject - even thinking about Abe is something I find distasteful and I'll be avoiding the TV tomorrow - so I'll bow out of this thread. Good day to you.

Same here. I have work and will spend the rest of the day on the bicycle, as far away from the telly as possible.

Coincidentally, this morning, I talked to an 85-year-old Japanese lady who I'd always considered rather patriotic, as she always puts out a Japanese flag on public holidays. She wanted to speak with me about "tomorrow" and expressed her profound sadness over the event and the blatant wastefulness and "undemocratic behaviour" of the current PM. This is how most Japanese feel about the funeral. Let's hope they won't forget until the next general election.

Sunny day tomorrow, cheerio!

 

[Tokyo Guy]

Tokyo Guy - you know the answer to the first question yourself. The LDP is a nest of vipers consisting of different factions that are far more interested in their power games than in running the country - leadership elections are the only time you see any animation from the LDP. The fact that nobody in the LDP felt it was the right time to challenge Abe for eight years does not make him a great leader. And longevity does not imply greatness - plenty of African leaders have been in power for decades and plundered their country. My own country is currently suffering the effects of 12 years of sociopathic Conservative government. In contrast, Nelson Mandela insisted from the outset that he would not serve more than two terms. That's greatness for you.

Regarding winning elections, being voted by about 25-30% of eligible voters is a country each time (about half of the 50% or so who bother to vote) is also not an indication of greatness.

I won't reply to your other questions, as I did not at any point imply that the elections were rigged, I have no idea how many people were involved in the approval process of Moritomo Gakuen or why you asked, and I don't understand the last question.

I've said everything I want to say about the subject - even thinking about Abe is somethingLeader I find distasteful and I'll be avoiding the TV tomorrow - so I'll bow out of this thread. Good day to you.

One measure of greatness as a leader is how long they remain in power- obviously true. It has always implied greatness even in Africa. It is the pitiful nature of humans to keep infamous leaders in power. Asking opinions on politics from most Japanese is practically meaningless because they complain about every PM and know very little about geopolitics, even the educated ones. I am sorry Mr. Abe leaves a bitter taste for you, nevertheless, a great leader he is and will be remembered that way. Tune in to the telly tomorrow.

 

[nice gaijin]

One measure of greatness as a leader is how long they remain in power- obviously true. It has always implied greatness even in Africa. It is the pitiful nature of humans to keep infamous leaders in power. Asking opinions on politics from most Japanese is practically meaningless because they complain about every PM and know very little about geopolitics, even the educated ones. I am sorry Mr. Abe leaves a bitter taste for you, nevertheless, a great leader he is and will be remembered that way. Tune in to the telly tomorrow.

longevity in power does NOT equal greatness if your definition of greatness has anything to do with the quality of the leader or the benefit they bring to their people; it merely reflects an ability to hold onto power, especially for dictators, despots and tyrants. There are countless examples of this all throughout history.

Yikes.

 

[mdchachi]

Today, in the early morning, a man in his 70s set himself on fire near the prime minister's office in Tokyo's Chiyoda Ward to protest the planned state funeral for former PM Abe. He survived with severe burns on his entire body.

Is there an article on this in Japanese somewhere? My wife said she hadn't heard about it even though she has the TV on constantly.

 

[thomas]

Here are a few:

首相官邸近くで男性が焼身自殺図る メモに「国葬反対」（ＡＦＰ＝時事） - Yahoo!ニュース

【AFP＝時事】東京都内の首相官邸近くで21日、男性が焼身自殺を図ったとみられ、意識不明の状態で病院に搬送された。

news.yahoo.co.jp

「国葬断固反対」手書きメモ持ち…首相官邸近くで男性が焼身自殺図る 国葬めぐり自民党内にも波紋が｜FNNプライムオンライン

9月21日、午前8時前の東京・千代田区。首相官邸にほど近い路上には多くの捜査員が集まり、騒然としていた。午前7時前、中央分離帯の植え込みで、70代くらいの男性が自分の服に火をつけ、焼身自殺を図ったとみられている。現場には黒く焦げたブルーシートのようなものも落ちていた。男性は「私個人は国葬には断固反対」と書かれた手書きの文書を持っており、重傷だが意識はあり「自分で油をかぶり火をつけた」と話しているという。火をつけた現場は、国会議事堂や首相官邸の目と鼻の先。27日の国葬に向け、警察が警備を強化する…

www.fnn.jp

霞が関 男性が焼身自殺図ったか 近くに国葬反対メモ 警視庁 | NHK

【NHK】21日朝、東京 霞が関で男性がみずから体に火をつけてやけどを負い、病院で手当てを受けています。警視庁によりますと、現場に…

www3.nhk.or.jp

メモに「国葬に断固反対」総理官邸近くで焼身自殺図ったか

　総理官邸近くの路上で男性が自分に火を付けて一時、意識不明になり近くにいた警察官もけがをしました。男性は直前に「国葬反対」などと話し、同様の趣旨のメモも見つかりました。 　21日午前7時前、千代田区永田町の総理官邸近くの路上から「人が燃えている」と110番通報がありました。 　捜査関係者によりますと、男性が自ら火を付けて一時、意識不明で病院に搬送され、火を消そうとした警察官もやけどをしました。 　男性は自称70代で、警察官に「国葬反対」などと話していました。 　現場から「私個人は国葬に断固反対」という手書きメモも見つかったということです。...

news.tv-asahi.co.jp

 

[Tokyo Guy]

Today, PM Kishida defended Mr Abe's state funeral, stating it was "appropriate" given the former's "achievements. He did not mention which achievements he was referring to apart from being the longest-serving PM. "I humbly accept the criticism that my explanation was insufficient," Kishida told members of parliament in response to questions about the issue.

Kishida defends state funeral for Abe as 'appropriate' during parliamentary debate

Some opposition parties have criticized Abe's nationalistic views, with the Japanese Communist Party saying it will boycott the state funeral, claiming it is unconstitutional.

www.japantimes.co.jp

Honestly, there is nothing to explain except why there was no public debate before the decision to hold a state funeral and why the taxpayers, most of whom oppose the funeral, have to foot the bill!

Interestingly, Japan faced a similar situation in 1975, when the state funeral of PM Eisaku Sato, the longest-serving PM until then and a Nobel Peace Prize winner no less, was cancelled for legal concerns.



Such concerns do not seem relevant in 2022, despite the lack of actual achievements.

Lack of legal basis halted state funeral for Sato in 1975. But now? | The Asahi Shimbun: Breaking News, Japan News and Analysis

Obama won the Nobel Prize for Peace and Times Man of the Year, what has he accomplished? The irony ... My point is that I can make a list just as long of worthless American leaders who accomplished nothing, yet were accorded honor inspite of the facts. Are we really questioning Mr. Abe meaning and accomplishments in Japan to justify not according a State level funeral. He died in service to his party and country. You are arguing this here?