用がはいった

[thesuker]

This is from the current よつばと manga page I'm reading. I understand 用 as a task or business, but I don't get the combination with the verb はいる. I understand from the context that it means the person is off attending some business or something similar, but I don't understand why they use that verb.

The full sentence is 用が入ったからこねえって. Also, that って at the end, is because he's quoting what the other person said, right?

Also, I have to say I love the 見ないうちに construction. It took my a while to get, but once you get it, its simplicity is beautiful. Could it be used like this?: 見ないうちにが嫌いだ

 

[lanthas]

用事が入った means "something came up that I have to deal with", so I guess this is similar: "He said he won't come because something came up."

I haven't seen 見ないうちに before, looks like it's similar to いつの間にか. I'm not sure what your custom sentence is supposed to mean though.

 

[thesuker]

So is 用が入った a Japanese expression?

From what I read うちに indicates the period of time within which something happened. The full sentence in the manga is しばさく見ないうちにまた大きくなった。 In the short period of time I didnt see you, you became big again! is how I understand it.

What I wanted to say was, I didnt like the period of time I didnt see you.

 

[lanthas]

しばらく*, not さく. This specific sentence has already been discussed on a different forum.

If you want to say something about a period of time, rather than what happened during that time, the word 期間 would be more suitable, e.g. あなたがいない期間.

 

[thesuker]

Ok, so to summarize (adding a couple of things I read on another forum)

Talk about something that happened within a period of time with difficult to define boundaries: 内（うち）
しばらく見ないうちにまた大きくなった。
Talk about something that happened within a period of time with easy to define boundaries: 間（あいだ）
映画を見た間に話さなかった。
Talk about the period of time itself: 期間（きかん）
あなたがいない期間.

And しばらく見ない describes うち as the 'short-not-seeing-you' period of time within which また大きくなった happened.

Thanks a lot for the help!

 

[lanthas]

You'll also see 中 (なか/ちゅう) a lot, for example 授業中 (じゅぎょう-ちゅう): during class.

 

[Toritoribe]

Talk about something that happened within a period of time with difficult to define boundaries: 内（うち）
しばらく見ないうちにまた大きくなった。
Talk about something that happened within a period of time with easy to define boundaries: 間（あいだ）
映画を見た間に話さなかった。
Talk about the period of time itself: 期間（きかん）
あなたがいない期間.

This is totally wrong, I'm afraid. "AうちにB" and "AあいだにB" are almost the same in meaning when B is non-volitional and expresses a change, often a gradual change. うちに and あいだに are therefore interchangeable in this case. This structure shows that B happens/occurs at a point of time during A. A must be a state in this structure. (期間 is a formal expression/written-word for あいだ.)

しばらく見ないうちにまた大きくなった。 ＝ しばらく見ないあいだにまた大きくなった。
映画を見ているあいだに外が暗くなっていた。 ＝ 映画を見ているうちに外が暗くなっていた。
(Both 大きくなった and 暗くなっていた express a change.)

うちに has another usage, and うち（は） and あいだ（は） have completely different meanings from うちに/あいだに, but several pages of a textbook would be needed to explain it...

 

[thesuker]

Could you recommend any link where it explains it? It might be a bit too advanced for me right now, but it would be nice to have for future reference.

 

[Toritoribe]

I recommend buying a proper textbook / grammar book, as Mike-san often suggested.

 

[thesuker]

I actually do have both げんき books, but I'm still with the first one and these kind of things don't come up in it. Was really more curiosity than anything else.

 

[nekojita]

After you have completed Genki, something like the どんな時どう使う series might be a good investment (I have the one that was aimed at old 1/2 JLPT levels and I ♥ it). It's quite good at covering the differences between similar seeming grammar points.

 

[thesuker]

Thanks a lot for that recommendation.

One last question about the page I'm on. ジャンボ says somebody who should have been there is off doing something else, and the dialogue goes on like this:

• よつば：ジャンボ、しばらく見ないうちにまた大きくなった！
• ジャンボ：お？どこでおぼえたそのセリフ
• お父さん：まあいいか。ジャンボが二人分働くしな

Immediately after that ジャンボ says that isn't going to happen. What's the meaning of that しな at the end of the last sentence?

 

[Toritoribe]

That's "し to express reason/cause" + "the sentence final particle な".

し
［接助］活用語の終止形に付く。
２ 前に挙げた事柄を原因・理由として下の事柄に続ける意を表す。から。ので。「身体はじょうぶです―、もっと働けます」「家も近いんだ―、たまには寄れよ」

goo

NTTドコモが運営するポータルサイト「goo」。今話題のニュースやドコモのキャンペーン、サービス紹介などお役立ちコンテンツを展開しています。

dictionary.goo.ne.jp

まあいいか。ジャンボが二人分働くしな。 ＝ ジャンボが二人分働くから、まあいいか。

 

[thesuker]

Could し be replaced by から？ (It's the word I've learnt to use when giving reasons)

 

[Toritoribe]

In this meaning, yes, as I wrote or as in the dictionary.

ジャンボが二人分働くから、まあいいか。

前に挙げた事柄を原因・理由として下の事柄に続ける意を表す。から。ので。

 

[thesuker]

Thanks a lot Toritoribe-san, and sorry for overlooking your examples

 

[raikado]

しばらく見ないうちにまた大きくなった。 ＝ しばらく見ないあいだにまた大きくなった。
映画を見ているあいだに外が暗くなっていた。 ＝ 映画を見ているうちに外が暗くなっていた。

This will be a little off topic, but...is there any difference at all between using ～ていた or the plain past here? Lately, I noticed that ～ていた used for describing a state, seems to be really similar to the plain past, especially now, with 間に.
しばらく見ないうちにまた大きくなった。
しばらく見ないうちにまた大きくなっていた。

映画を見ているあいだに外が暗くなっていた。
映画を見ているあいだに外が暗くなった。

 

[Toritoribe]

The meanings are basically the same, but the plane past is put more focus on the change, whereas ～ていた is more on the state after the change or expresses the change is completed.
e.g.
旅行しているあいだに、植木はすっかり枯れ果てていた。
席を外しているうちに、彼はコーヒーを飲み終えていた。

 

[Mike Cash]

I actually do have both げんき books, but I'm still with the first one and these kind of things don't come up in it. Was really more curiosity than anything else.

I very strongly like to encourage people to develop Japanese literacy and to go on to enjoy putting those skills to use by reading for enjoyment.

But I would to gently suggest that you complete at least the first book and have a firm grasp of those basics before you tackle reading stuff. It will make things go much more smoothly for you. It won't take forever and the manga isn't going to disappear in the meantime.

I studied from what was a four volume textbook, and I only finished the first two volumes and lightly touched on the third one. That was the full extent of my Japanese studies, and it didn't take all that long. It set up for building my reading skills with light materials (comics), reading hundreds of volumes of which built me up for light regular books, reading dozens of which built me up to where I now read pretty much whatever interests me...and in the same way I have always lived my daily life here and read Japanese text -- without using dictionaries or reference books, just plain old "reading".

Let's face it, you're still at a point where you're not even consistently correctly reading hiragana yet. Attempting to read at this point is putting the cart before the horse when you haven't even got all the parts to build the cart yet.

That's just my unsolicited advice and it will neither surprise me nor hurt my feelings if you ignore it.

 

[thesuker]

Yes, I guess you're right, I should focus more on learning the basics before tackling the manga. My problem with the textbook is that even though I find it a good reference to learn the grammar, I'm a bit overwhelmed by the vocabulary aspect, because there's a lot of it, and it's a bit random at times. I learn the grammar very fast, but learning the vocabulary is hard. I've started having a bit of conversation exchange over Skype with a girl from Yokohama and I've found that the words I've been using with her are easier to remember, and the ones I haven't I have to review every day to not forget them.
Do you think it would be a good idea to use the textbook as a grammar reference and take out of it the vocabulary that I'm going to actually use in a conversation and not focus so much on learning all of it?

 

[nekojita]

You do not need to be 100% on every part of every chapter. A reasonable understanding of the grammar and sentence patterns presented is more important than memorising every vocabulary word - and yes, the vocabulary probably is skewed towards what's useful for the audience (university students in this case). If you never see a word outside vocab drills, it's perfectly understandable that it's hard to remember, and if some of the words don't seem useful to you, nothing is obligating you to earn them (or perhaps, at least, learn them right this instant).

But don't just read through it as a reference book, do do the exercises in the book. Again, you don't have to get them all right, sometimes knowing where you are going wrong is actually more helpful.

 

[thesuker]

Thanks for all the advice

 

[raikado]

The meanings are basically the same, but the plane past is put more focus on the change, whereas ～ていた is more on the state after the change or expresses the change is completed.
e.g.
旅行しているあいだに、植木はすっかり枯れ果てていた。
席を外しているうちに、彼はコーヒーを飲み終えていた。

I had a hunch that it might be like this, but I was considering others possibilities as well and I was really unsure. Thank you for the explanation!