と + 遊ぶ

[TheMinion]

It's been a long time since I've studied Japanese, and even longer since I've visited this forum. Life sort of got in the way for awhile, but then I couldn't help but come back and resume studying the most beautiful language I've ever heard.
So, recently I hired a Japanese language tutor to give me lessons twice a week. The method used involves writing a lot stories and learning grammar and vocabulary through a "personally-relevant" context. This has been all well and good, but requires that I spend a lot of time on my own learning the deeper meaning behind various grammar patterns, as I don't like only memorizing and parroting things. This has been mostly fine, but in my last lesson I came across something I didn't quite understand, and thought I'd ask on here.
It's nothing particularly difficult, just something that strikes me as odd and stirs up my curiosity.

In a story about my experiences with computers, the following sentence was written:
... また、納得するまで、コンピューターと遊ぶことを許してくれました。

The context for the sentence is my father introducing me to computers when I was very young and letting me play with them on my own until I figured them out.

My question is why is と used in コンピューターと遊ぶこと instead of で?


Thanks in advance!

 

[Ashikaga]

I would not use と here. XXX と 遊ぶ implies that XXX is actively involved in an interaction with you, like a person or a pet, or it could be used in instances where you are anthropomorphizing the object you're playing with. Of course, a computer is a piece of machine, so, コンピューターで遊ぶ is more appropriate.

Who wrote the sentence, you or your teacher?

I suggest you ask your teacher the difference between the two. If s/he is a native Japanese speaker, they should know that で should be used in that sentence.

 

[TheMinion]

My teacher wrote it, and she is indeed a native Japanese speaker.

I felt that it was weird when I first read it, but I didn't want to go questioning my teacher right away. Her English can be a little shaky, anyway, so it's frequently difficult to get the answers I'm looking for.

Also, I now have two sources of conflicting information, one being a confirmed native speaker, and the other being you. I hope you don't mind me asking, but what is your source and/or what makes your answer credible? I don't mean to sound rude, but you pretty much said my teacher was wrong, so it makes me wonder what background you have that enables such a confident statement.

 

[Ashikaga]

I am a native Japanese speaker also. I suppose it's still my words against hers...lol

Hopefully, other Japanese members will back me up. I am pretty confident that I am correct on this, though.

::Edit::
My guess is that your teacher had done a direct translation of "with". Like I've said in my last post, it is NOT a mistake. One may intentionally use と for the reason I've pointed out. Still, if I were to translate "...my father introducing me to computers when I was very young and letting me play with them..." , I would go with で everytime.

 

[TheMinion]

I wasn't doubting you, but if you weren't a native Japanese speaker I would have expected more speculation than statement in your reply. It's more likely that it was just a typo on her part, probably from being in America for so long (since the 1980's). I'll just highlight it and bring it up during my next lesson.
Thanks for your replies!

 

[undrentide]

コンピューターで遊ぶ and コンピューターと遊ぶ have different nuance/connotation.

General statement is コンピューターで遊ぶ.

When one is saying コンピューターと遊ぶ, the person is personifying the computer, as if it is a living thing - a friend, maybe.
You can even say コンピューターが遊んでくれない as a joke/for a fun when your computer does not work properly when you try to use it.

 

[TheMinion]

Oh, ok, thanks!

So which would you say fits the context better?

 

[Toritoribe]

In addition, と has a nuance of "mutual", so, for instance, when you play a game fought against computer, コンピューターと遊ぶ might be acceptable.

So which would you say fits the context better?

I second で. It's far more common.

 

[TheMinion]

I asked my teacher about it today, and she said that the "と" here was intentional. She said that because I was a young child at the time, it was more like playing with the computer, as if it were a friend, as opposed to playing on the computer, as if I understood it.