-た form + らよい

Fociis · 18 Nov 2006

Can someone please explain to me what this verb form is and the translation and usage. The context is:
あなたはどこできっぷを買ったらよいか、知っていますか？

Also what does the だし mean in the following context:
今日も仕事だし

is it a particle?

Thanks!

J44xm · 19 Nov 2006

「買ったら」, the past tense of 「買う」 with 「ら」 appended, is one of the conditional forms available for use in Japanese (meaning "if" or "when"). 「よい」 is a formal way of saying 「いい」, meaning "good." So very, very literally, this sentence is asking "As for you, at what place if I buy a ticket is it good--do you know?" Does that make sense? A far more natural translation would be "Do you where where it'd be good to buy a ticket (or, tickets)?"

This kind of conditional is formed with any verb by attaching 「ら」 to the past tense form. Some examples:
たべる → たべた → たべたら
のむ → のんだ → のんだら
する → した → したら

And some example sentences:
1. 病気（びょうき）になったら、大変（たいへん）ですね。 (If I become sick, it'd be difficult.)
2. しゅくだいをなくしたら、どうしますか。 (When you lose your homework, what do you do?)
3. なにを言（い）ったらいいか、まだわからない。 (I still don't know what it would be good to say.)

I'll have to let someone else handle the 「し」 question for now. Hope this helps.

MrWabu · 19 Nov 2006

Fociis said:
Also what does the だし mean in the following context:
今日も仕事だし

is it a particle?

Thanks!

The だ is just the plain form of です and the し on the end indicates this is one of a few (or many) "reasons" for something. The way you'd learn this construct is to include more reasons and add a それで on the end re-iterating the situation:
Ａさん：どうして行かない？
Ｂさん：今日も仕事だし、つかれたし、それで行かない。
MrA: Why won't you go?
MrB: Well I have to work today, and I'm tired... That's why (I can't go).

In your example, just one reason is mentioned, but it implies there may be others. So it means something like "Well (because) I have to work...". There is obviously a question this is in response to.
I don't think it is a particle, but I could be wrong.

is2scooby · 19 Nov 2006

Wow. I've learned a lot in this thread. Outstanding explanation J44xm. This was after my native Japanese-speaking fiancee failed to illuminate the dim bulb over my head.

Fociis · 19 Nov 2006

MrWabu said:
In your example, just one reason is mentioned, but it implies there may be others. So it means something like "Well (because) I have to work...".

Thanks J44xm and MrWabu for your responses. That really shed some light for me.

For だし, the full context is:

今日も仕事だし、早く帰りたいです！

This is an informal email I received via cellphone from a Japanese friend. It doesn't explicitly state any other reasons so I would take it to be translated as (working from what you've written):

"Well (because) I have to work, I want to go home quickly!

Is this correct?

J44xm · 19 Nov 2006

Sounds right to me, @Fociis . And remember that 「し」 indicates the probability of other reasons as well. (Oh, the subtlety.) Also, 「も」 is often used with 「し」, as seen in that sentence. I think it replaces 「は」, 「が」, and 「を」 alone but I'm not about that.

「たくさん宿題（しゅくだい）もあるし、あの人もいるし、それで帰る！」
Because I have a lot of homework and also because that person's here (and possibly because of other unstated reasons that I might or might not even have taught of), I'm going home.

I've also seen this construction, I believe:
「たくさん宿題（しゅくだい）もあるし、あの人もいるから、それで帰る！」
Note that the final 「し」 is replaced with a standard 「から」. My supposition is that this quietly indicates that these are the only reasons. But someone more experienced than I would need to delve into this.

(And thanks for the compliment, @is2scooby .)

eric · 20 Nov 2006

I learned alot of Japanese in this thread, great explanations guys

Elizabeth · 20 Nov 2006

I've also seen this construction, I believe:
「たくさん宿題（しゅくだい）もあるし、あの人もいるから、それで帰る！」
Note that the final 「し」 is replaced with a standard 「から」. My supposition is that this quietly indicates that these are the only reasons. But someone more experienced than I would need to delve into this.

Hmmm....I had never considered that as a difference but I suppose it may be more limiting. I'll have to ask someone to make sure. Although there could be reasons they haven't thought of, it does sound reasonable (sometimes you see ので with these constructions to the same effect btw).
And in natural conversation between friends I think the それで is usually left off, at least I don't see it that much.

仕事もあるし、疲れてるから行かない（行けない）。。。

Or simply 「どうして行かないの？」「仕事もあるし、疲れてるから」

本当に日本人がこの会話をした場合だともいます。。。

Elizabeth · 20 Nov 2006

J44xm said:
Sounds right to me, Fociis. And remember that 「し」 indicates the probability of other reasons as well. (Oh, the subtly.) Also, 「も」 is often used with 「し」, as seen in that sentence.

I'm not sure it's related to the reason of work in that sentence, though.
Because I'm also working (even working) today....etc I want to get home early.

この場合、「だし」の後にはその前の文と反対のいみがきますね。

J44xm · 20 Nov 2006

面白いですね。授業で、「し」という文法を使ったら、「も」も使うと言われました。でも、それはいつものことではありませんか。 Hmm. In English, for the sake of everyone: I was told in class that when you use the 「し」 grammar, you use 「も」 as well. However, is this not an automatic thing?

Elizabeth · 20 Nov 2006

J44xm said:
面白いですね。授業で、「し」という文法を使ったら、「も」も使うと言われました。でも、それはいつものことではありませんか。 Hmm. In English, for the sake of everyone: I was told in class that when you use the 「し」 grammar, you use 「も」 as well. However, is this not an automatic thing?

I think that is too narrow. There isn't always a way to make it possible. For instance, Nihon wa (natsu wa) astsui shi, (fuyu wa samui shi) amari sukijanai desu. Shi is simliar to the te form in the case but as you deduced, implies the stronger possibility of unstated reasons.

やっぱり、はっきり物を言うのを嫌う日本人はよく使います。

-た form + らよい

Fociis

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J44xm

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MrWabu

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is2scooby

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eric

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Elizabeth

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Elizabeth

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