The Chinese city of Harbin decided to erect a statue in honour of Ahn Jung-geun, the assassin of Ito Hirobumi, the first prime-minister of Japan and later Resident General of Korea. China thereby followed a suggestion of South Korean president Park Geun-hye. While this step must be seen in its historical context, it also shows how deep the rift between Japan and its neighbours has become.
The politics of statues China helps South Korea honour the assassin of a Japanese colonial official
"Ahn Jung-geun is a famous anti-Japanese martyr in history, who is also respected by the Chinese," said Hong Lei, a Chinese spokesman, on November 19th. He defended China's decision to press ahead with the statue.
This will not be the first tribute to Ahn in China. A statue of him is displayed at the prison in the north-eastern city of Dalian where he was held, now a museum, and Harbin station commemorates the site of the shooting too. In 2010 North and South Korean religious leaders gathered in Dalian on the 100th anniversary of his execution. A rally was also held outside the Japanese embassy in Seoul to mark that date.
But for China and South Korea, co-operation on a new statue also carries contemporary significance. The two countries have been getting along better in recent months than they have in years. "The most overlooked development in north-east Asia is the rapid strengthening of China-South Korea relations," says John Delury, a historian at Yonsei University in Seoul. In October Mr Xi met Ms Park again, in Indonesia, and urged that the two move forward on a bilateral free-trade agreement.
Japanese officials have responded by calling Ahn a criminal. To the Japanese, Ito was a towering figure, an architect of the Meiji constitution. A government spokesman said the move to honour Ahn with a statue in China would not help Japan-South Korea relations. But that seems to have been precisely the idea.
If you compared this to the West, in the West, there would be no hard feelings about Americans or other Allies countries honouring a WWII soldier. The problem seems to be that Japan has a hard time remembering that they were on the bad guys side of WWII. Without even reading about Ito, I think it's safe to say that if he had been home in Japan, he wouldn't have been assassinated. I normally get pretty tired of China and South Korea's political whining about the War, but I think this is fair for them to do.
I guess it's all about timing. While Japan definitely has been remiss in coping with its aggressive past (see the debate on history text books used in schools or the "historical ignorance" of young Japanese, not to mention Yasukuni), such steps only serve to widen the gap, as can be seen by Japan's reaction, calling Ahn a criminal. It's disheartening to see escalation all around.
Also (and I'm sure [MENTION=58848]Mark of Zorro[/MENTION] will love this debate), who decides what makes a murderer a "hero", a "freedom fighter", a "soldier" or just an "assassin"?
Btw, Ito was killed in 1909, so that's not even closely related to WWII.
I don't really think there's anything honorable about an assassination, honestly. It's sort of underhanded. I know that the man who was killed isn't seen favorably by the Chinese, but that doesn't mean honoring an assassin is a good way of creating positive relations, or setting a good example for citizens.
I'm also rather concerned about what a Chinese-South Korean alliance means. It would be bad enough if US relations with China went bad, which they might... but now, if we have any kind of conflict with China, we may have to face South Korea as well. Given China's historical ties to North Korea, it might even lead to a united Korea siding with China, which is something I would really hate to see.
A lot of important industries and technologies are in South Korea, and if they side with China, that shifts the balance of power in their favor. That sounds troubling.
Also (and I'm sure [MENTION=58848]Mark of Zorro[/MENTION] will love this debate), who decides what makes a murderer a "hero", a "freedom fighter", a "soldier" or just an "assassin"?
Yes but its pretty common to lump all of Japan's imperial misdeeds into WWII. You are technically correct thomas, but nahadef has just used a common (although fallacious) shorthand.
At any rate, the Japanese response is very poor and stupid. They think he was assassinated because he was Japanese apparently and take it personally. He was assassinated for being a self determination stealing invader, and all such invaders deserve to die the moment they become a self determination stealing invader. And that goes double for the leaders. Hardly matters what he did before or even if he accomplished great good in the world. Stealing people's self determination always results in the poor and brutal treatment the Koreans suffered and it was obvious to any fool it would wind up that way.
Any Japanese taking offense is clearly sending a message that Japanese imperialism, meddling, and slave taking was completely okay, and what a dumb message to send.
The Chinese and Koreans are completely right in honoring the killer of such a scumbag, just as Germany is beginning to honor Claus von Stauffenberg more for at least attempting to take out Hitler.
At first, Ito opposed Japanese annexation of korea.
most Japanese agreed with Ito at that time
as a result of Assassin of Ito, M&A was done because a group of annexation became strong..
Ahn was a kind of fool because Ito believed the korean could modernize by themselves
a Korean professor at Kaya university
anyway it is ok Ahn is a hero in Korea. however as for japan, he was a just fool or a stupid terorist. whoever, a terrorist never become a hero even in Japanese history
as for Ahn, he was a pro-Japan and believer of Tenno. south korea hides a lot of things about him.
if china allow it, it would be interesting because there are alot of terrorist in china..
Kim Ok-gyun [김옥균; 金玉均] (1851–1894) was a reformist (Gaehwapa, 개화파) activist during the Joseon Dynasty of Korea. He served under the national civil service under King Gojong, and actively participated to advance Western ideas and sciences in Korea. The goal of the reform movement was to develop Korea in government, technology, and military by using Japanese resources, so that Korea would become stable enough in time to withstand increasing Japanese Imperialism. Kim was assassinated in Shanghai, and later was given the posthumous title "Chungdal"............
even today many Japanese worshiping him
his grave is in Aoyama, Tokyo
Yes but its pretty common to lump all of Japan's imperial misdeeds into WWII. You are technically correct thomas, but nahadef has just used a common (although fallacious) shorthand.
The Chinese and Koreans are completely right in honoring the killer of such a scumbag, just as Germany is beginning to honor Claus von Stauffenberg more for at least attempting to take out Hitler.
Ito was no more of a scumbag than other leaders of his era and even less of a scumbag than other of his Japanese contemporaries. It's far-fetched to compare him to Hitler.
Al historical aspects aside, the point I actually wanted to make is that such acts only cause further unnecessary escalation in a region currently dominated by brainless nationalism. The event in this thread has just been topped by an even more incredulously stupid act, namely the imposition of China's ADIZ. Wrong step, wrong time, really sad.
親日派から見た日本の朝鮮統治
Korea Under Japanese Rule as Observed by Koreans
朴栄喆（ぼくえいてつ）Bak Yeong-cheol
「五十年の回顧」より
Bak Yeong-cheol, 50 nen no kaiko (Fifty years of recollections) (Tokyo: Osaka Yago Shoten, 1929) 朴栄喆は、併合前の明治三五年に日本の陸軍士官学校に入校し、帝国陸軍少佐を経て日本ﾂｭ統治時代に道知事にまでなった人物
Bak Yeong-cheol entered the Imperial Japanese Army Academy in 1902, prior to annexation. He rose to the rank of major in the Imperial Japanese Army, and later served as a provincial governor.
彼はその著「五十年の回顧」（昭和四年）の中で、日韓併合による韓国滅亡を次のようにﾂｭ教訓化しています。
In Fifty Years of Recollections, published in 1929, Bak moralizes on the destruction of Korea by means of Japanese annexation:
『公平無私なる観察を下すときは、いくら日本の朝鮮統治に反対しても善政は善政に相違ﾂｭなく、A certain critic once said,
""If we were to express an observation -- one formed fairly and impartially, that is -- we would have to conclude that Japan is practicing good government in Korea,
如何に伊藤（博文）公を毛嫌いしても公の真意には感謝せざるを得ない、とはある評者のﾂｭ言であった。
[no matter how opposed we are to the government of Korea by Japan. No matter how much we loathe Ito (Hirobumi), we cannot help but appreciate his intentions."
究竟するに韓国を亡ぼしたのは日本でもなければ之を責めるにも当たらぬ。
In any case, it was not Japan that destroyed Korea; therefore, we cannot blame Japan.
また当時の李完用始め自余の責任者でもなければ之を攻撃するの必要なし。Furtheﾂｭrmore, we should not attack Lee Wan-yong or others in high positions at the time.
詮ずるところ、その責任は二千万同胞にあるのである。
No, the responsibility rests with us -- all 20 million of us.
思うに韓国自体が独立の要素を欠き、独力独行することが出来なかったためであって、
Korea lacked the requisites for independence, and was not able to move forward on its own power.
古今問わず韓国国民全体が無気無力為す事なかりしの致すところであって、まことに自らﾂｭ招ける禍であると云わねばならぬ。
Throughout history all Koreans have been lazy and impotent, and have truly brought their troubles on themselves.
日露戦後、韓国の保護啓発に努力したるも韓国の上下は少しも日本の誠意を理解せず陰謀ﾂｭを策し、
After the Russo-Japanese War, when Japan made a concerted effort to protect and develop Korea, Koreans in all levels of society refused to believe that Japan was acting in good faith.
脆謀を企て陰に陽に敵対行動を取ったので
They hatched out plots and conspiracies openly and secretly, treating Japan like an enemy.
日本はついに止むを得ず最後の手段として日韓併合を断行するに至った。Consequﾂｭently, Japan was forced to exercise its last resort: the annexation of Korea.
・・・今日あるは自業自得であると云わねばならぬ
We have no one to blame but ourselves for the situation in which we find ourselves today.
Korea Under Japanese Rule as Observed by Foreigners
It is beaten to death by the remark that a 95 years old man "had good rule in Japan"
ニュース 2013年09月14日
"I am dead and am natural" in the Korean net beaten to death by the remark that "the rule in Japan was good" for, and a 95 years old man "is an umpire of the justice"
I made a present man angry when a 95-year-old Korean man made a remark "to answer in the affirmative", and to do the rule era in Japan in Korea and had a case to be hit, and to die.
The man testifies that it is the crime of "the patriotism reason", and a voice of the protection breaks out from Korean net users. Surprise spreads through the too cruel case in Japan.
■ Take the stick of the old man; a head as for how many degrees …
According to Korean paper "world daily report," it is about May, 2013 that a case happened. Ancestral mausoleum of the Imperial Family citizen Park in Seoul became the spot.
The park is known as a tourist attraction, and it is the place of recreation and relaxation for elderly people living in the neighborhood, and many people enjoy Go and a chat under the blue sky. It was one that such a ring increased Boku (95) of the victims.
It is yellow defendant (38) to have come over there. He drank in large quantities and completely got drunk. While Boku talked with this drunkard, casual word conflicted with "the wrath" of the yellow defendant.
"The eagle thinks that the colony rule of Japan was good"
I do not know it what kind of point Boku judged "to be good", but anyway Boku is already 27 years old at the time of 95 years old, the end of the war. I did the actual situation of the rule in Japan and the later Korean contemporary history in one of eyes, and there would be heaviness in the remark. One yellow defendant is the generation who hardly memorizes it even for 37 years old, Park Chung Hee Era.
what did you say?
However, the yellow defendant who "was a patriot" flew into a rage with a speech of Boku. I took the stick when I kicked Boku and kept entrusting anger, and hitting heads. Of the thing which Boku suffered a serious wound in the skull or brain, and was treated died. Although I insisted, "I got dead drunken, and feeble-mindedness was in a state", the yellow defendant arrested for a charge of inflicting bodily injury resulting in death was sentenced to penal servitude five years on September 10.
"An old man is a criminal when he praised an emperor on a day"
It does not have few apologetics to this yellow defendant in Korea to be surprised. When "went too far with the patriotism by force of the liquor judging from an above-mentioned world daily report," is slightly sympathetic,; but more on the net the yellow defendant calling himself "patriotism young men,"
"In the first place I am murdered, and, as for the old man, a criminal is natural when I praised an emperor on a day"
"Rather penal servitude is a decoration thing"
"It is an umpire of the justice"
"A judge traitor!"
Comment to justify など murder is added to an article a lot. Of course, some says that I grieve when "it was in the country which may kill a person in Korea whether this is what the constitutional state does if different in historical view how long", but the power of a radical opinion is pushed on the strong Korea net and is slightly.
In late years, over the evaluation to the rule era in Japan, I make much of progress of the modernization from some researchers in Korea, and there is movement to evaluate partially. However, domestic public opinion rolls up boiling, the politics when the textbook that such an opinion was reflected passes official approval on August 30; develop for a debate very much, and watching it is still deep-rooted "a taboo".
Sure enough, an uyoku nut wants to make it seem like Japan was doing Korea a favor. Unfortunately for them, nobody on the planet agrees outside of their little group.
truth of anti-japan
stupid Japanese media begins to realize the truth at last?
it seems it is as same as north korea's group hypnosis or Unification Church's
sorry only in Japanese language
Japanese uyoku is just cute compering to korean Uyoku because the emotion is priority matter.
and they are brainwashed by media and politician to sell newspaper and to avoid complain..
Japanese wives never tell the truth(honne)to korean husband because of fighting...lol
Japanese young people know these well. foreigner Just does not know about it.
there are are full of information in Japanese about that based on documents at that time.
if Japanese young seriously study about that, oppositely, they would realize the truth..
it can research them by themselves because it is written in unchanged Japanese unlike korean.
anyway Many japanese know Chinese history is political propaganda and korean one is fantasy.
it is sure there are many views from various directions and dimensions.
it knows Ahn is hero of korea,. who cares about the korean history in Korea.
some foreigner here would labele easily you are Uyoku
they say you are "historical ignorance" of young Japanese"
they never show the evidence logically..
It's amazing that such a racist nitwit is smart enough to use the Internet. It's like watching a monkey use tools.
Seriously, would anyone else equate a passport with intelligence or access to the truth, other than a nitwit racist nationalist? Will humanity be burdened with having to accidentally find such inane posts on the Internet until the end of time? Lord knows, no literate person would think seeing a nationalist explain why 'annexing' a country and forcing prostitution on the locals was great! is even remotely interesting. It's comparable to seeing someone pissing on the street at night and claiming they were making the town better when called out for it.
Caster, for the record, are you married? Are you happy?
that was the event and what people thought at that time. of course might be wrong in Today's sense of value.
and if annexation as a result existed, there would be effect at that time.
Japanese history was based on cause and effect. at least
that is why it is not written Ryoma sakamoto is the greatest hero in History text book. and Akech was so bad guy..
it is free for you to judge those in them. at least poor Uyoku knows why and what happened.
to tell those is nationalist explains...LOL
most Japanese admit the existence of comfort women as prostitute
a nationalist explains what comfort women was..
it is so sad women was sold to brothel by their parents and some agency at that time because of poverty
it became a trouble from a lie
interview of Glendale city...
It's so sad to see Japan is glorying Ito Hirobumi by branding Ahn as a criminal when the real Criminal was Ito when it comes to Japanese invasion of Korea .
Ito coerced the notoriously unfair treaty between Korea and Japan in 1905 and 1907 to control Korea, implemented plundering policies as a Resident-General in Korea only for Japanese interests and caused lots of death of Koreans. Japanese politicians calling Ahn a criminal shows they have no real remorse for their aggression in invading Korea.
It's so sad to see Japan is glorying Ito Hirobumi by branding Ahn as a criminal when the real Criminal was Ito when it comes to Japanese invasion of Korea.
Ito coerced the notoriously unfair treaty between Korea and Japan in 1905 and 1907 to control Korea, implemented plundering policies as a Resident-General in Korea only for Japanese interests and caused lots of death of Koreans. Japanese politicians calling Ahn a criminal shows they have no real remorse for their aggression in invading Korea.
Welcome to the forum and thanks for sharing your perspective!
While history is full of blunder and mutual aggression, and while Ito's role is certainly controversial, honouring the murder of politician - in particular in times like these and after more than 100 years have elapsed - is sending the wrong signal. I will not raise the issue of past Japanese apologies and compensation paid, but I'd be profoundly interested in your views on how the ties between Korea and Japan could be improved.
It seems you are talking from the prospective of Japan. "How the ties between Korea and Japan could be improved?" As you may know, definitely it's not a simple question to answer and the history issue is the main obstacle. Korea and Japan have different stances on this matter probably like you and I. Before talking about this broad topic, I'd like to ask what the wrong signal honoring Ahn sends. And what do you think Japanese politician calling his neighbor's hero a criminal in this particular times? One more thing, is there anything wrong with a nation honoring their hero anytime they need?
Having read up on Ahn I do of course understand why he is considered a hero in Korea. Not that it matters, but I didn't know he was a devout Catholic.
While it's true that Ito initially opposed the occupation, he became - as the resident-general - the very symbol of occupation. Thereby, his elimination was a symbolic act that might have triggered fiercer opposition against Japanese colonization. However, we should not close our eyes to the fact that Korea, China and Japan have moved on and are no longer the same nations they once were. Therefore - again - what I'm objecting to is mainly the bad timing.
I don't have the time to put all my thoughts into words, but drawing parallels between East Asian and European history, I'm surprised how little willingness East-Asian nations display in dealing with historic events that date back more than seventy years. Europe has been a battlefield for centuries, yet managed to lay aside its differences; former arch-enemies have become friends and political partners. In the East China Sea, meaningless rocks still divide nations.
Back to Ahn: I'm Austrian and not in the slightest patriotic. Yet I'd be quite disturbed if the Republic of Serbia decided to erect a new statue honouring Gavrilo Princip, who in 1914 assassinated Archduke Franz Ferdinand in Sarajevo and thereby triggered the outbreak of WWI. It's about overcoming the past, creating mutual respect and working on a common future. With the current governments in place, there seems to be no silver lining on the horizon.
PS: the young Japanese lady's videos posted further up in this thread are quite interesting and of surprisingly emotional nature, but I doubt that Koreans asked for annexation or had much appreciation for the roads, trains, factories, hospitals, and all the other civilisatory blessings bestowed on them by the Japanese. ;-)
PS: the young Japanese lady's videos posted further up in this thread are quite interesting and of surprisingly emotional nature, but I doubt that Koreans asked for annexation or had much appreciation for the roads, trains, factories, hospitals, and all the other civilisatory blessings bestowed on them by the Japanese. ;-)
I'm not even going to bother with the vids, every argument like this is just patently offensive, whether from Japanese about their role in Asia, or from Westerners justifying some of the West's nastier history (which isn't common, but I've heard it before). Not a single act of the Japanese government in Korea was for the benefit of Korea, it was simply to exploit the country more effectively. Likewise, these uyoko fools try to say that Japan liberated Asia from the West, but it was only because they lost the war. If they had won, they would have exploited the continent worse than the European powers of the time.
Asian people really do care about the past too much, too ready to fight over old arguments than to start something new.
"Perhaps, according to today's judgment, they might have made mistakes but back then they were doing their best for the country. In Japan, our way of thinking about the dead souls is that we don't criticize them. They were protecting the Emperor and, by extension, the Japanese people." That vital point, he says, is now understood by a growing number of Japanese politicians.
Doing their best for their country, I can believe. Protecting the emperor the Japanese people? That is offensive. How many Japanese died in WWII? They did a horrific job 'protecting' them. In fact, their 'protection' was the main reason Japan suffered so horribly. These uyoku guys are the an anchor holding Japan back, more concerned with honouring the past rather then understanding it.
I hope u actually can read Japanese but 親日派 has about the same connotation as 売国奴 from the Korean perspective. Don't know how 朝鮮人 and 親日派 can both mean Koreans. No bias there.
Ito was instrumental in the invasion of China. Good thing the guys dead. Next.
I totally agree both should move on. All Koreans and Japanese long for it. But there are too big gap between Korea and Japan in facing the history. Moving on for Japan means going forward with attempts to reinterpret and rewrite the past? Korea is often asked to get over the past. How can Korea move on when its history is being revised? Japan's compensation (according to your term) and previous apology don't grant Japan a privilege to do whatever they want regarding history.
As to the timing, it's bad when considering the current deteriorated relation, but it seems there's no any good timing by judging from Mr. Suga's comment "We have been telling the South Korean government that Ahn Jung-Geun was a criminal." Japan would protest no matter when it's. I don't think Japan takes the timing into account when they do or say something contributing to the deterioration of relation. I'm sorry if President Park's idea worsened the current relation of two countries, but on the other hand, I think on the part of Korea, it's not so bad timing when considering Japan's historical revisionism is expected to continue. I hope this issue serves as a valuable opportunity for Koreans expecially young generation to learn how Koreans resisted Japanese invasion and for Japanese to learn how Imperial Japan aggressed Korea.
You drew an analogy between Ahn Jung-geun and Gavrilo Princip. Yes, both caused others lives, but the difference is if i'm not mistaken, Servia and Austria were at war as foes each other and Korea and Japan didn't. Japan was an aggressor and Korea was a victim. Japan admitted their aggression and apologized for it, which means what Ito did to Korea was the act of aggression. I think Japan's treating Ahn as a simple criminal is far from the so-called genuine apology.(Of course, I'm not asking for Japanese respect for Ahn. Actually, I think it doesn't matter how the Japanese call him, but at least the top Japanese politician shouldn't call his neighbor's a criminal.)
I'm surprised how little willingness East-Asian nations display to deal with historic events that date back more than seventy years.
I know the relation of three nations are not understandable from the western viewpoint. It would be hard to understand if you don't know the history three countries share. In case of Korea, Korea was under Japanese colonization for 4 decades. You can't completely understand the current relation between Korea and Japan without exactly knowing the past of two nations.
It's about overcoming the past, at least attempting to create mutual respect and working on a common future. With the current governments in place, there seems to be no silver lining on the horizon.
I totally agree with you. It seems to be a long way to go, but I'm sure there's a hope.
the young Japanese lady's videos posted further up in this thread are quite interesting and of surprisingly emotional nature, but I doubt that Koreans asked for annexation or had much appreciation for the roads, trains, factories, hospitals, and all the other civilisatory blessings bestowed on them by the Japanese
Are you talking about the first video by caster55? It's typical one of the YTube videos against Korea or Koreans based on the historical distortion and falsehood to justify and glorify their past. I'm trying to be as calm as possible in writing this after watching that video. The fact Japan coerced Korea to sign the Treaties led to Japan's annexation was proved by historical documents from both Korean and Japanese side. Saying "Koreans asked for annexation" is the denial of those evidence. Japan's annexation is equivalent to Japan's invasion of Korea . That is the truth like the Earth orbits the Sun. Japanese Prime Minister Kan said Japan's colonial rule was against Korean will in his speech of 2010 commemorating the 100th anniversary of the Japanese annexation of Korea as follows:
"In August precisely one hundred years ago, the Japan-Korea Annexation Treaty was concluded, making the beginning of the colonial rule of thirty six years. As demonstrated by strong resistance such as the Samil independence movement, the Korean people of that time was deprived of their country and culture, and their ethnic pride was deeply scarred by the colonial rule which was imposed against their will under the political and military circumstances."
Technically, Korea was annexed by Japan in 1910, but Korea lost its independence in 1905 when a protectorate treaty was forced by the Japanese. F. A. McKenzie British Far Eastern correspondent for Daily Mail then described how Japan forced the treaty of 1905 in his book "The Tragedy of Korea"(1908). The link below was quoted from his book.
This video is disgusting. Is the pictures of the working class women in the countryside with their breasts exposed for the purpose of easily breastfeeding their babies the ground supporting this man's comment "It was absolutely impossible to modernize Joson on its own."? That's ridiculous. It's true Korean was not modernized at the time, but it doesn't mean modernized Japan had the right to take advantage of it and invade Korea.
As nahadef said, Japan didn't build the roads, trains, factories, hospitals, etc. for the sake of Koreans. All were involved with Japanese interests. For example, Japan built railroads initially for Sino-Japan War (1901) and later Russo-Japan War(1904) and they became the means to transport Korean resources and corps to Japan after the Wars. Japan's real purpose of building railroads in Korea was well reflected in Prime Minister Katsura Taro 's statement "If Japan constructs the Gyeongui Line on our own and connects to the Gyeongbu Line, all major railways will be in the hands of our empire, in effect keeping Korea under our influence." in 1902. The link below explains the role of Korea's Railway Network in Imperial Japan's ruling of Korea.
Thank you for your reply, Kim, I'll respond to your post soon. I just want to link the following article analyzing the current state of affairs between South Korea and Japan:
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The fact Japan coerced Korea to sign the Treaties led to Japan's annexation was proved by historical documents from both Korean and Japanese side. Saying "Koreans asked for annexation" is the denial of those evidence. Japan's annexation is equivalent to Japan's 
