魔法省が何をどうしようが知ったことか

[eeky]

Hi,

1. フレッドとジョージは、魔法省が何をどうしようが知ったことかという顔をした。

I can't understand the phrase 魔法省が何をどうしようが知ったことか. For example, what is the purpose of the second が? Who is the subject of 知った? What does ことか signify?

 

[Mike Cash]

They didn't give a damn what the Ministry of Magic said about anything.

The construction is idiomatic.

JGram - The Japanese Grammar database

 

[eeky]

Thanks, so the subject of 知ったis フレッドとジョージ, is it?

 

[Mike Cash]

Thanks, so the subject of 知ったis フレッドとジョージ, is it?

I guess so.

 

[eeky]

I'm still puzzled why it's not:

魔法省が何をどうしようがと知ったことかという顔

Would that work too?

 

[Mike Cash]

I'm still puzzled why it's not:

魔法省が何をどうしようがと知ったことかという顔

Would that work too?

No, I don't think so.

Here the "know" is more like the "care" in the English usage of "I don't care"

http://ejje.weblio.jp/content/知るか

On a slight tangent, if I may...

I'm assuming these are all books you have already read in English and still own or have access to. I'm curious if when you ever use them side by side and compare troublesome Japanese passages with the original to help work things out.

 

[eeky]

I have not already read it in English, but I have the English text to refer to when I get stuck. Unfortunately I forgot to mention in the original post, to save others the trouble of explaining it, that I already knew broadly what the meaning ought to be. It is the way that the meaning is created that I couldn't make sense of.

 

[Toritoribe]

"The volitional form of a verb/an adjective + が" is a structure for hypothetical adversative conjunction "even if", as same as ～（よ）うと, ～ても or ～たとしても.

が
［接助］
３ （推量の助動詞に付いて）それに拘束されない意を表す。「行こう―行くまい―、君の勝手だ」

が［格助接助終助］の意味 - 国語辞書 - goo辞書

差し上げたい / 思っている / お・あ・い・に・く / 誰がどうなろう | Japan Forum

（たとえ）雨が降ろうが槍が降ろうが、必ず行く。
（たとえ）雨が降ろうと槍が降ろうと、必ず行く。
（たとえ）雨が降っても槍が降っても、必ず行く。
（たとえ）雨が降ったとしても槍が降ったとしても、必ず行く。
Even if it rains or spears fall out of the sky, I will surely go there.
(This conditional clause is a set phrase for "Whatever happens".)

～ことか is a rhetorical question for ～ことではない
知ったことか ＝ 知ったことではない
it's not what they are concerned about / it's not what they care about

魔法省が何をどうしようが知ったことか
whatever and however the Ministry of Magic do, Fred and George don't care