Israeli teens murdered

Dotanbatan said:
A quick search showed this from The Independent newspaper in the UK:

A top Hamas official admitted the three Israeli teenagers whose deaths in June caused the current spiral of violence were taken by the military arm of the organisation.
Hamas has until now refused to respond to Israeli accusations it planned the abduction and murder of the three boys, one a joint US-Israeli citizen, in Hebron.

Reuters and The Huffington Post also run the story ... All news sources that I normally trust.

it is interesting how The BBC haven't run the announcement however.

I have found Al Jazeera biased on too many occasions and don't trust them.
CNN, apart from a few like Fareed Zakaria and Amanpour, are a bunch of ******.
Click to expand...
You could share the link instead of copy paste.
i can't help it if you browse news website that post what you like to hear, You need different sources, otherwise you will keep walking in a circle.
BBC is a pro-israeli (zionist) news channel, Alarabiya.com is a zionist channel, Fox too, but i like to browse them as well.
My news list:
1-Aljazeera.net
2- Alarabiya.com (zionist)
3- cnn.com
4- bbc.co.uk (zionist)
5- sabq.com (local news).

These channels inriched my info and each of them is as important as the other, i also search in the israeli boards and i really enjoy reading some topic, Sometimes it suprise me how many jews defend the Palestinian rights.
I didn't knew that Sephardic jews were victims of the Western polictics and Ashkenazi interests.
So my advice to you is, Don't rely on sources that say what you like, You will end up one-eyed if not blind.

alecgraham, It's worthless to talk about who did it when we have hundreds of victims of civilians, It's sad to see people stand with bloodshed and justify civilians murder in dozens.
 
If the story is true it means those members did it without orders, As the report says they did not tell Hamas leaders, if a soldier act by himself then their leader is not responsible for indivisual mistakes, Am i wrong ?
 
If this story is true, it means the entire premise of this thread is wrong.
 
Your question seemed to be a rather insignificant one considering the ridiculous premise of this thread was that the Israeli teens were most likely killed by Israeli agents in order to generate support for Israeli military action in Gaza.

I don't know if their leader is responsible for the individuals' actions. If they were acting against Hamas's wishes, I would have expected the Hamas leader to denounce them. Instead, Khaled Mashaal said "If indeed there was a capture, those who did it must be saluted". If they are to be saluted, I don't think Mashaal considers their abduction a mistake.
 
Majestic said:
Your question seemed to be a rather insignificant one considering the ridiculous premise of this thread was that the Israeli teens were most likely killed by Israeli agents in order to generate support for Israeli military action in Gaza.
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It doesn't deny the fact that israel has never been in a good situation with Arab government as it's today, It's the best chance for israel to attack Hamas, All Arab nations except Qatar, Tunis and Sudan have completely sided with israel.

Majestic said:
I don't know if their leader is responsible for the individuals' actions. If they were acting against Hamas's wishes, I would have expected the Hamas leader to denounce them. Instead, Khaled Mashaal said "If indeed there was a capture, those who did it must be saluted". If they are to be saluted, I don't think Mashaal considers their abduction a mistake.
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Mashaal is right, Those who abduct my kids deserve the same until they release my kids, Mashaal did not say 'murdering' he said abducting. But i assume you have a different opinion.
 
Majestic said:
Abduction of teenagers for political motives is contemptible and ought to be denounced in the strongest terms.
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Will you hold to what you said if it was your kid who was abducted while the abductor's kid is playing around you ?
Politic speech is beautiful but not realistic and mostly useless, It's not that i agree with abducting teens but i know if it was me i wouldn't think too much about it.
 
Majestic said:
If this story is true, it means the entire premise of this thread is wrong.
Click to expand...

Something is seriously wrong here. Earlier it was reported that a guy was hired by another guy to set up the op. He was told the money came from Hamas (who knows if that is true?) Then the guy sought men to do the job....and they were Hamas members??? They just happened to be Hamas? As a non-Hamas middle man he believes he has money from Hamas, and runs out and hires Hamas members for the job?

Not impossible, but really, really bizarre. Feeling manipulated yet?

Also, Majestic, the article title in your post does not match with the title shown in the link. There it says "Hamas admits its men abducted Israeli teens, says its leaders didn't know"

Other reports say "Hamas official admits group abducted, killed Israeli teens" and "Hamas official takes credit for kidnap, murder of Israeli teens"

Feeling manipulated now? Neither of those headlines agree with the first one provided by Majestic.

How can we not be suspicious of the press at this point and not question what was really said and what really happened?
 
Hezam said:
Will you hold to what you said if it was your kid who was abducted while the abductor's kid is playing around you ?
Politic speech is beautiful but not realistic and mostly useless, It's not that i agree with abducting teens but i know if it was me i wouldn't think too much about it.
Click to expand...

I would not go for anybody's kids. I would be going for the abductors throat, not his family.

That said, I know other people easily lose their sense in tough circumstances. Most people would not hold up well if put in Palestinians shoes, but they expect perfection from them anyway.

Its a hell of a lot easier for an Israeli to be moral, in the comfort and freedom they have. So I wonder what is stopping them from being moral? Well it sure as hell is not hardship and oppression. Its more like selfishness and greed, isn't it? Which do you suppose I find easier to overlook or have even a teensy amount of understanding for?
 
Zorro, Did you notice how some ppl are dying to finda lead to prove Hamas is responsible for teens abduction ?
i wonder why it's so hard for majestic and Dotanbatan to understand the obvious like Zorro !!
 
Guess I better cover my @$$ and provide sources.

First headline was FOX news. Hamas official admits group abducted, killed Israeli teens | Fox News

Link actually says Hamas orchestrated it!

Watch the video if you can avoid puking. They show the aftermath of a Palestinian rocket in Israel at a health clinic, talk about some Israeli civilian injuries and interview an Israeli mother and talk about number of rockets fired, then blithely go on to say Israel responded with missiles, including hitting a house but killing Hamas leaders as if that was all. No pictures from Palestine and no talk of Palestinian civilian injuries and deaths from missiles.

FOX is a plague on journalism and all that is holy.

Second was rediff Hamas official takes credit for kidnap, murder of Israeli teens - Rediff.com India News

Top two search results when I looked this up. Both outrageous lies. But I have no doubt Israel supporters will call it just a slight bending of the truth. Would they say the same thing if headlines read "Pentagon admits it orchestrated the Kandahar Massacre"? Hell no. They would stomp and fume that Sgt. Bales acted alone!
 
seems like rediff quoted the article from Ha'aretz which is an israeli newspaper,


A senior Hamas official has admitted the militant group's involvement in the kidnapping and murders of three Israeli youngsters which sparked off the current violence in Gaza, contrary to the outfit's earlier claims that it had nothing to do with the killings.

Salach Al-Aruri, considered a senior figure in Hamas, boasted at a conference in Istanbul on Wednesday that the group's military wing was behind the kidnapping and murders of the three Israeli teenagers in the West Bank in June, the Ha'aretz daily reported.
Click to expand...

i'm curious why i can't see this on Aljazeera or Alarabiya or any other Arabic sources !!
 
Hezam, no one is dying to find proof of Hamas's culpability. The relevant facts are being widely reported in the media. Why its not being reported in the pro-Palestinian press one can only speculate. Hamas leaders are claiming their mujahadeen did it. The leader of Hamas says the perpetrators deserved to be saluted. A Palestinian man has been arrested in connection with this, and has confessed to it. Whether or not it was officially sanctioned by Hamas is beyond my level of interest at this stage. It may not have been. It may indeed have been militants acting without official Hamas sanction. None of the Hamas leadership are denying the events as they are being reported. None of the Hamas leadership is expressing outrage at the kidnappings and killings. Rather, they seem to be quite pleased with the outcome.

And yet, some are still clinging to the conspiracy theory that Mossad is responsible for the abductions (for the seemingly unnecessary purpose of fomenting anti-Palestinian sentiment). Well, you are welcome to your own opinion - it just seems fantastically implausible and unnecessary, and requires us to disbelieve everything being reported from any news source.

Zorro, I am not responsible for how the CNN link displays in this thread. The link headline leads the video, which is surplus to my requirements - I only needed the story underneath. At any rate I pasted the link, and that is how the headline showed up. The article is what is important. Since Hezam seemed to be upset earlier that a) CNN (one of his preferred sources) had not yet reported on this, and b) someone had cut-and-pasted some text without providing a link, I made sure I provided the link. Apparently that wasn't good enough either. Anway, if you wish to find your jewish conspiracy in a CNN headline, be my guest.

Hezam-san, you always claim you want to hear the honest opinions of other people, and yet when people give you honest opinions that collide with your own views, you tend to insult those people or make some disparaging remark. Its becoming tedious. Its no wonder that only a few of us bother to say anything in these middle-east based threads.
 
First, Alarabiya is anti-Hamas and they did not report the article.
Second, i did not insult anyone, if you feel insulted then i'm sorry, Serious discussion can lead to anger, misunderstanding, facts & rumors, Lies and turth, and you should not get angry because your source is lacking sense or your story is not legit.
i haven't seen any post of yours stands for people in M.E threads, i only see you defending Western wars on others! It's not fair to show up only to defend the wars/crimes that western nations do and blame the victims for the result !!
 
I feel compelled to point out that neither Fox nor BBC are Zionist organizations - but if you like I will listen to your arguments as to why you think they are Zionist.

I am happy to stand up for Middle East people who aren't hoping for some sort of genocide or who don't seek to establish a religious utopia. . In another post you complained about Iraq's Al-Maliki. I agreed with your grievances, but you didn't seem happy about that. Two days later Maliki was gone, thanks largely to US pressure. I think it is a good use of US influence. But of course it has the potential to cause further disruption. But on the whole it seems to be a positive step for Iraq's political evolution. Hopefully you agree. You also hoped that the US would do more to oppose ISIS. I agreed with you again, but you didn't like that either. Anyway, by the end of that week the US was committing millions of dollars and resources to repel ISIS - this seems to be a good thing for the Middle East. We can continue that discussion in that thread if you like.

One thing the US could do would be to withhold resources from Israel until they remove their settlements in the occupied territories. I think you and I would agree that would be a positive thing, yes? Another thing the US should do would be to put more pressure on Saudi Arabia to allow more freedoms, more democracy. Unfortunately this could be destabilizing in a way that won't benefit Saudis, so I understand this has big risks.

In general I'm for freedom of thought, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, emancipation of women, public (secular) education for all. Anything that helps these concepts take hold in the ME I support.
 
Hezam, I agree with Majestic. You are hostile to those with different viewpoints.

Personally, I'm not American, Muslim, nor Jewish, so I have zero personal stake in this topic. I roll my eyes when I hear about Zionist conspiracies. The BBC as a Zionist operation?! The BBC isn't even supportive of the British government. That's hard to have a reasonable conversation about.
 
Hi Hezam

Majestic has covered everything really well and to add to it would just be "painting eyes on the dragon." I just want to confirm that, yes, I pasted the link about Al-Aruri (aka Arouri) & the kidnappings because this whole thread began with the premise that it could be a false flag, i.e. an Israeli attack on their own young civilians to use as a pretext for war.

Also, the BBC seems so anti-Israel to me that I had a good laugh when I read your post labeling them as "zionist." I'm going to smile all day because of that one. : - )

But, I agree with you that the kidnappings are less important than other factors. The tunnels are the real reason Israelis have felt the need for a ground incursion for some time now.

Whether news sources can be categorized as pro- or anti-Hamas, I don't know. I just know that when the British carved up Palestine in '48, the Arabs didn't like it and decided use the Arab armies for genocide, but never wanted to help the Palestinians or give them citizenship. They failed, and for the next half century, the Palestinians have been caught in between Israel and those Arab nations. The only thing they have going for them is that much of the west now joins them in (stupidly) blaming Israel for all their problems.
 
I don't have much time for detail right now, but I just want to ask, with regards to Hamas being blamed for the kidnappings, can you guys seriously not see the giant plot hole in how the press is reporting it?

Do you think this new information rules out the possibility that it was a Mossad false flag?
 
An important distinction with regard to your false assertion that Hamas is being blamed.

Saleh al-Aruri said it was members of al-Qassam's mujahedeen who did it. He called it a "blessed, heroic action". Whether or not it was performed with the official sanction of Hamas or Mashaal, I leave you to speculate on. Mashaal said he had no knowledge of it. He also added that the perpetrators ought to be saluted.

I have no reason to doubt either of the above statements. I have every reason to doubt that al-Aruri would have said what he said had these events unfolded at the hands of Israeli agents. I have every reason to doubt that Israel "needed" to drum up even more anti-Palestinian sentiment. I have every reason to doubt that Mossad would have hatched such a ridiculous plan as to kidnap and murder three teenage boys, then bury them on a Palestinian's property.

All of this says nothing of the arrest and confession of the man involved in this plot.

To ignore all of this and to continue speculating on the mathematical odds of this being a false-flag operation, seems a bit pathetic, if not pathological to me.
 

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