てもらう have someone do... / passive form (楽しまれる）/ まだ + になった

[raikado]

Hello,

There are these 3 sentences that I'm not sure I'm getting right:

1) エルシィの羽衣 返してもらうか？
羽衣 is basically a cloth

So a girl stole the 羽衣 from Elsee and this guy happens to find an opportunity to take it back. But I learned that てもらう means to have someone do something (in this context, at least) >> To have the girl return the cloth. In english though, this makes it sound like he is making the girl return it to Elsee personally, when in fact the guy simply takes it without even saying a word.

2)楽しまれちゃマズイんだよ・・・困ってくれなきゃ・・・

The context is about a girl who was depressed for a while and then she started to feel better, but the guy doesn't want that.
I'm not quite sure why passive is used in the first part. I don't think it's the honorific usage, since these are actually the guy's thoughts and he is not the type to speak respectful anyway.
So, I think the topic of that sentence would be something like "this situation", but then, in the second part the topic would be "the girl"? Is this correct?

3)これであんたが大出世でもしてたら・・・まだ話のタネぐらいになったかもしれないけど、こんな化け物みたいな姉・・・恥なだけよ。
So, the girl has turned into a giant (literally), and now her sister is expressing her disgust. I don't understand this part at all まだ話のタネぐらいになったかもしれないけど; the past tense and まだ. I think the first part means "If you become a huge success because of this (being a giant) ..."

EDIT:
4)どうして私がこんな目に遭うのよ！！ 私・・・何をしたって言うの！？
Is って言うの just for emphasis? If so, a literal translation would be: "I'm saying....what did I do?". I'm asking because this sentence is translated as "Are you telling me that I did something bad?". So...who is the subject of って言うの?

 

[Toritoribe]

1)
Isn't that 返してもらおうか?

2)
That's "passive of adversity".

Need a word or phrase translated?

The subject(the one who suffers adversity) is "we", and the actual doer(the one who enjoys the situation) is "she".

俺たちはお前に楽しまれちゃマズイんだよ。お前が困ってくれなきゃ。

3)
まだ means まだ少しは / 幾分 "somewhat".

The reason why the past forms 大出世でもしてた and 話のタネぐらいになった are used here is that these are contrary to fact. She didn't get a huge success and (therefore) it can't be a thing to talk about.

4)
「私が何をした」って言うの？

The subjects of した and 言う are "I" and "you", respectively.

 

[raikado]

1) No. Even so, would the question change? I mean, I would still translate it as "Should I make her return it?" (返してもらおうか sound a little more cocky to me)

2) Thank you. That passive...took me a while to understand it.

4) So...literally it would be "Are you saying [What did you do?]"? Is this just the way a japanese person thinks? Because I, for example, would say 私が何かしたって言うの？

Also, I found this sentence 私に何の関係があるというのだ. Here, the subject of という is "I", right?

3) Ok...I get the grammar...but now I don't understand just what she wants to say. What becomes the thing to talk about and to whom? At first, I assumed that the giant girl becomes a topic of interest to everyone (becoming popular), but I don't know now.

Also, to give more context...the girl is actually an actress, so she already is a success(although I'm not sure her sister recognizes this). After a long time she returns to her hometown and meets her sister. A while after that she turns into a giant. Her sister then tells her how much she hates her for leaving her home. And then...that sentence.

Could you tell me how you would translate this?

 

[lanthas]

Maybe 1) is instead derived from "てもらえない"? Then it would be a direct request, rather than having someone do something.

4) "I did what, you say?" -> "What are you saying that I did?"
"私が何かしたって言うの" would translate to "Are you saying that I did something?", which would be slightly different. The original is about *what* I did, this version is about *whether* I did something.

私に何の関係があるというのだ is probably similar: "What are you saying this has to do with me?"

 

[raikado]

Maybe 1) is instead derived from "てもらえない"? Then it would be a direct request, rather than having someone do something.

4) "I did what, you say?" -> "What are you saying that I did?"
"私が何かしたって言うの" would translate to "Are you saying that I did something?", which would be slightly different. The original is about *what* I did, this version is about *whether* I did something.

私に何の関係があるというのだ is probably similar: "What are you saying this has to do with me?"

Something that might be important and I forgot to mention about 1. He isn't saying that sentence to anyone, just thinking it.

4) Yes, I realize the difference between the two. I was just trying to say that for the translation to be this "Are you telling me that I did something bad?" (which is how it was translated in english), 何か would have to be used. And also that it sounds weird.

As for the other sentence, it seems different because it isn't a question like the other one was.

 

[lanthas]

1) In that case, I'd translate it as "Will she (do me a favour by) giving it back?" Literally, "will I receive her returning of the 羽衣?"

4) Translations are not always literal; just because the English translation uses the word "something" doesn't mean that the Japanese sentence should too. "What are you saying that I did?!" has the tone of "What are you accusing me of?!", and by extension, "Are you accusing me of doing something bad?"

And are you sure the 関係 sentence is not a question? After all it contains 何 (a question word) and ends with のだ (short form of んですか).

 

[Mike Cash]

The use of giving/receiving verbs in cases such as #1 is cocky and somewhat facetious. To leave that out would be to totally miss the point and misread the situation.

 

[Toritoribe]

1)
返してもらおうか? is a word being said to HER, i.e., a request/order to her, weareas 返してもらうか? is said to HIMSELF. "He isn't saying that sentence to anyone, just thinking it." shows that that's the latter and there's no typo. (In this case, he is saying to himself what he is going to do from now on.)

3)
Two interpretations are both possible; 1)the speaker doesn't know the giant girl is an actress now and 2)the speaker doesn't think actress is a huge success in life(大出世). In either way, 大出世 is contrary to fact for the speaker. The context must show which is correct.

As for 話のタネ, the speaker thinks that a fact that her sister becomes giant could be a thing to talk about if her sister got success in life, i.e., she can talk about her sisiter to other people, but actually she feels that her sister is just a shame to her because (she thinks) her sister didn't get success in life.

4)
「私が何をしたからこんな目に遭う」って言うの？ makes sense? The speaker is asking WHAT the cause/reason of her trouble is, not "she got trouble because she did something(= 何か)". (Probably she thinks she did nothing wrong, though.) The meaning is close, but the nuance is different, just like そこで何をしてるの vs そこで何かしてるの.

Also, I found this sentence 私に何の関係があるというのだ. Here, the subject of という is "I", right?

No. The subject of いう is "you" or "people in general", as lanthas-san pointed out.

 

[raikado]

1)
返してもらおうか? is a word being said to HER, i.e., a request/order to her, weareas 返してもらうか? is said to HIMSELF. "He isn't saying that sentence to anyone, just thinking it." shows that that's the latter and there's no typo. (In this case, he is saying to himself what he is going to do from now on.)

I'm not sure I get this. Would the full sentence be エルシィが私に羽衣を返してもらうか？so it translates more or less as "Should I return the hagoromo to Elsee?"

3) Most likely the second one is the right choice.

4) Ohh...it's that という that is like "it is said that...".

 

[nekojita]

てもらうか is not referring to his actions directly.

Literally it would be something like thinking "Shall I have her return it?", but from the start he doesn't mean "shall I ask nicely for her to return it", but "I'll make her return it by force"/"take it from her".

Similarly if someone thinks something along the lines of "死んでもらうか", they don't intend to quietly wait in the hope that the person will keel over, they're actually planning to kill that person (this is a bit of a cliche in some kinds of fiction).

 

[raikado]

I understand now. It's like I thought of it initially, but I didn't understand how from "make her return it" it could become "take it from her". I didn't know it could have an "aggressive" intent.

Thanks to everyone for helping me.