five things()

[santana3]

It's a great interview if humans continue to layer them a lot of chronic diseases that we see today, such as skin diseases, infectious diseases, to read and ponder ....


1
- Nail trimming:
Scientific research has shown that failure to cut the nail and prolong the cause of the accumulation of germs and dirt under it, and therefore cause infections and odors. The bacteria accumulated under the nails grow and multiply rapidly because of the conditions for it, then move to inside the human body during the food. Thus, the Prophet forbade mercy peace be upon him for prolonging the nails because of the resulting pollution and poisoning, and if prolonged may lead to a lot of inflammation in the ends of the fingers and cracks due to bleeding and trauma injuries.
2
- Removing the pubic hair:
It means removing the hair from around the masculine User In other words, shaving pubic hair, a delegate to the male and female and if so, for the Holy Prophet peace be upon him. Has been scientifically proven that this region accumulated sweat and secretions of the skin significantly and are prone to dirt contamination because of its proximity to the place of front and back passages. The neglect of shave pubic hair will help lead to hair abundance in this region and thus find germs and fungi fertile ground to grow it.
This leads to infection of many chronic skin diseases. Thus, the process of removing hair from this area are cleared continuously, and become easier to remove when washing and microbes.
3

- Plucking the armpit:
For the reasons the former, we find that the area under the armpits where hair grows and increases sweating and secretions of the fat, the fungi and bacteria find a suitable place to live. Thus removing the hair from the underarms means to remove these bacteria remains pure, clean body.
4


- Circumcision:
Is removed or cut off excess skin that covers the User masculine men. If you do not remove this skin which will accumulate dirt and germs and bacteria grow and multiply until the cause of many diseases Calcelan and syphilis. With the continued accumulation and the growth of bacteria may become infected men with penile cancer, or the futility of the whole man is not circumcised will accumulate under the foreskin remains of urine and the magnitude of the bacteria and fungi may move this to the bladder and kidneys and cause many infections and excruciating pain. The matter becomes complicated if the bacteria moved to the wife during sex, causing a variety of infections may end infertility, or cancer of the uterus. As a result, there are many risks due to lack of circumcision: So the Prophet ordered us to peace be upon him promised that this matter of human nature by order of God.

5
- Cut the mustache:

The area above the nose, mouth and under the mustache is also a fertile ground to collect bacteria and transmitted easily to the inside of the mouth during eating and drinking. So it must Sa mustache to avoid this infection.
Thus it is clear good effect to worship the believer and that is what we find ratifications him to tell the truth the Almighty: ((97) Whoever does righteousness, whether male or female, while he is a believer - We will surely cause him to live a good life, and We will surely give them their reward [in the Hereafter] according to the best of what they used to do) [Nahl: 97].
The Prophet and upon him blessings and peace: (five of the instinct of circumcision, shaving the pubes, plucking the armpit hairs, cutting the nails, trimming the mustache) [Bukhari]. This should be a great talk on every believer to take it and apply it in his life. The scientifically proven benefits that accrue to the believer's application of the teachings of the Holy Prophet. Now, to enumerate some of the medical benefits of all that came in the Hadith.

Glory to my Lord has great praise for the blessing of Islam, that Islam is the religion of all prophets and messengers, which urges us always on the purity and cleanliness

 

[santana3]

Facial hair must be removed for women to be clean and beautiful

Facial hair for men

Is often a light on the cheeks

If you use a razor to remove no problem with that
But

Should not remove the beard because this is Suuna about Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him

Cleanliness - Islamic Morals and Manners - YouTube

 

[nahadef]

- Removing the pubic hair:
It means removing the hair from around the masculine User In other words, shaving pubic hair, a delegate to the male and female and if so, for the Holy Prophet peace be upon him. Has been scientifically proven that this region accumulated sweat and secretions of the skin significantly and are prone to dirt contamination because of its proximity to the place of front and back passages. The neglect of shave pubic hair will help lead to hair abundance in this region and thus find germs and fungi fertile ground to grow it.
This leads to infection of many chronic skin diseases. Thus, the process of removing hair from this area are cleared continuously, and become easier to remove when washing and microbes.

And it looks sexy too. There's a reason shaved bush for women has become the norm in porno, and a trimmed, if not shaved, pubic area for men. aka the extra inch: Urban Dictionary: extra inch

- Plucking the armpit:
For the reasons the former, we find that the area under the armpits where hair grows and increases sweating and secretions of the fat, the fungi and bacteria find a suitable place to live. Thus removing the hair from the underarms means to remove these bacteria remains pure, clean body.

While the armpits don't really make a huge difference to me, I prefer nothing. At the very least trimmed.

- Circumcision:
Is removed or cut off excess skin that covers the User masculine men. If you do not remove this skin which will accumulate dirt and germs and bacteria grow and multiply until the cause of many diseases Calcelan and syphilis. With the continued accumulation and the growth of bacteria may become infected men with penile cancer, or the futility of the whole man is not circumcised will accumulate under the foreskin remains of urine and the magnitude of the bacteria and fungi may move this to the bladder and kidneys and cause many infections and excruciating pain. The matter becomes complicated if the bacteria moved to the wife during sex, causing a variety of infections may end infertility, or cancer of the uterus. As a result, there are many risks due to lack of circumcision: So the Prophet ordered us to peace be upon him promised that this matter of human nature by order of God.

Circumcision really seems anti-God to me. If you believe God created man whole, why add that extra layer of protection that needs to be chopped off. If you know what soap is, foreskin is zero danger. It's the way people were made.

- Cut the mustache:
The area above the nose, mouth and under the mustache is also a fertile ground to collect bacteria and transmitted easily to the inside of the mouth during eating and drinking. So it must Sa mustache to avoid this infection.
Thus it is clear good effect to worship the believer and that is what we find ratifications him to tell the truth the Almighty: ((97) Whoever does righteousness, whether male or female, while he is a believer - We will surely cause him to live a good life, and We will surely give them their reward [in the Hereafter] according to the best of what they used to do) [Nahl: 97].
The Prophet and upon him blessings and peace: (five of the instinct of circumcision, shaving the pubes, plucking the armpit hairs, cutting the nails, trimming the mustache) [Bukhari]. This should be a great talk on every believer to take it and apply it in his life. The scientifically proven benefits that accrue to the believer's application of the teachings of the Holy Prophet. Now, to enumerate some of the medical benefits of all that came in the Hadith.

Again, soap. People know how to wash, right? There's reason why modern people can eat pork and the whatnot without getting sick: humans figured out how to be sanitary. We don't need God telling us to shave our moustaches. You're killing Burt Reynolds with statements like that.

So yes to shaving places that get in the way, no to shaving places that look awesome And a big no to severing the protective layer God built into guys. And soap! We aren't living in the 1100's!

 

[Mark of Zorro]

Herein lies one problem I have with typical Muslim thought; that whatever told us by God or Mohammad over 1000 years ago is still strictly applicable today. When nahadef says "soap" he is pointing to a whole and widespread system of sanitation and a level of personal hygiene that did not exist at that time. Hot water on demand at home and sometimes even in store lavatories, sewage treatment, water purification systems, waste water collection or at least having it drawn away from population centers...not every country has these, but where they do the people are ridiculously clean compared to just 100 years ago. And you can add to that the use of machines to do dirty work. How often does the average person in a modern country even need to dig in the dirt these days?

And as much as I approve of all this shaving and trimming ( I practice this over my entire body as well) the reasons of 1000 years ago don't always really apply to today, or become seriously insignificant. That said, I salute the intelligence behind it as it was promoted at the time...but...this is the 21st century.

I also find it somewhat bizarre and conflicted that so many Muslim societies require males to grow beards, despite all this concern with cleanliness, shaving and trimming.

And of course it opens up the question of why did God give us all this hair if we are supposed to shave or trim it? I mean, I think you can make a good argument for why nails grow, and since they grow, must be maintained. But why the hair on your bum if you don't really need it? Its blasphemy, I know, but I am going to say it; God is not perfect or all capable. Perhaps he just could not make us any other way. And I think that is fine. He did what he had to do. Its way more than I could do. So props to God even if He is not perfect.

That may also apply to circumcision. God Himself might consider the foreskin a design flaw. As a circumcized American male, I am not sold on the issue either way. If there is some big benefit to having or not having foreskin, I sure don't know what it is. I have read studies that indicate it *may* be harder to contract venereal diseases if one is circumcized. But I also read that there *may be* more sexual stimulation for both a man and his partner if he is uncircumcized. But none of this is conclusive or Earth shattering enough for me to make a hard and fast choice. In the end I decided to leave my son's foreskin alone because I saw no reason to subject him to that pain or the chance that operation could go wrong (and when it does, its horrible).

And yes, there is also the point of passing bacteria and viruses to the partner if one is uncircumcized...but...again...hygiene should take care of that, certainly better than circumcision alone would.

 

[santana3]

Good discussion

. Yes, removal of body hair is not only permissible, it is required. For a man, the beard and eyebrows must be left alone; for a woman the eyebrows. The absolute removal of hair around the penis and testicles, vagina, anus and under-arm is a crucial element of Sunan al-Fitra. The hair must not grow beyond 40 days.

Fitra is a code of requisite personal hygienic conduct for Muslims and Sunan al-Fitra is the code of requisite personal conduct to do with the body. The Sahih al-Bukhari explicitly states that all Muslims are required to pluck away the hairs that grown from the base of the naval through the genital area and behind to the anus—it goes on to say that the underarms must be removed of hair in a likewise fashion. Shaving with a razor is allowed instead of plucking or waxing,

but laser hair removal might prove the most effective. Whilst other body hair apart from the genital and underarm area are not mentioned in any detail, the majority of Islamic scholars have understood and continue to hold that the complete removal of all body hair from the neck down to the soles of the feet is a required element of Sunan al-Fitra before one engages in a profound holy struggle—known in Arabic and now in English also,
as jihad.

There is the Greater and Lesser Jihad. The Greater Jihad is the internal spiritual struggle of the Muslim toward submission to Allah. The Lesser Jihad is Holy War against non-Muslims based on principle of belief. The greater jihad is the basis of one being obedient to Allah and is undertaken every minute of the day, every day of the year. Therefore it is necessary for men and women to make sure that every stalk of hair is removed from their bodies and that they remain hairless all the time.

------
1. Pork prohibited in Qur'an
The Qur'an prohibits the consumption of pork in no less than 4 different places.
It is prohibited in 2:173, 5:3, 6:145 and 16:115.
"Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine,
and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than Allah."
[Al-Qur'an 5:3]
The above verses of the Holy Qur'an are sufficient to satisfy a Muslim as to why
pork is forbidden.
2. Pork prohibited in the Bible
The Christian is likely to be convinced by his religious scriptures. The Bible
prohibits the consumption of pork, in the book of Leviticus
"And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be cloven footed, yet he cheweth
not the cud; he is unclean to you".
"Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcass shall ye not touch,
they are unclean to you." [Leviticus 11:7-8]
Pork is also prohibited in the Bible in the book of Deuteronomy
"And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud,
it is unclean unto you.

Why is the eating of pork forbidden in Islam? Dr. Zakir Naik (Urdu) - YouTube

Dr Zakir Naik proved that having Pork is prohibited haraam in Islam as well as in Christianity - YouTube

Dr Zakir Naik - Is Pork Allowed In Christianity (urdu) - YouTube





-----

- Circumcision:
-
- Apart from those who require the procedure for medical reasons of course.
-
-
- For health reasons in the first place
-
-
- see here
-
- ????? ????? - ?????? ?????????? - ??????? - YouTube
-
-
- 1.8 billion Muslims (and millions of Jews)

Circumcision as prescribed by Islam involves cutting the foreskin covering the glans of the ***** only. Those who flay the skin surrounding the ***** or flay the entire *****, as is done in some savage countries, and claim in their ignorance that this is the circumcision prescribed in Islam, this is nothing but something prescribed by the Shaytaan and made attractive to the ignorant, and it is a torment to the one who is circumcised. It goes against the Sunnah of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and the Islamic sharee'ah which is based on ease and which enjoins preservation of life.

It is haraam for a number of reasons, including the following:



1 - The Sunnah mentions cutting off the foreskin covering the glans of the ***** only.



2 - This is torture and mutilation, and the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade mutilation and torture of dumb beasts, committing outrages upon them or cutting off their limbs. It is more appropriate that tormenting the sons of Adam should be more forbidden, and a more serious sin.



3 - This is contrary to the humanity and kindness encouraged by the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) when he said, "Allaah has decreed humanity in all things."



4 - This may lead to disease or death of the one who is circumcised, and that is not permissible because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):



"And do not throw yourselves into destruction"

[Al-Baqarah 2:195]

"And do not kill yourselves (nor kill one another)"

[Al-Nisa '4:29]

 

[santana3]

The issue here
That there are some women and girls

They have a large clitoris and slightly high

In that case requires circumcision
By a very small

This is to avoid falling into adultery in early age

This makes her think of committing adultery with the other

And circumcision in those cases
Protection and prevention

These very few cases when girls


You're talking about something completely different
You are talking about the peoples and tribes apply circumcision on girls
Simply the application of the customs
Without regard to the need for it or not

Circumcision is not a basis for girls

But very few cases that require

This is a result of medical examination

Not affected by the girl physically and psychologically

Circumcision is Mandatory for men but for female but not obligatory.

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is reported to have passed by a woman performing circumcision on a young girl. He instructed the woman by saying: "Cut off only the foreskin (outer fold of skin over the femalecore; the prepuce) but do not cut off deeply (i.e. the femalecore itself), for this is brighter for the face (of the girl) and more favourable with the husband."

??? ???? ?????? ???? ???????? - ???? ??????? - YouTube

????? ????? ??????? ?? ?????? ?????? - Plaigirism in The Bible?? - YouTube

 

[nahadef]

Oh! You were telling us this because it was written in an old book! I thought there was a good reason for it, like, things that weren't applicable when that book was written a millennium ago.

The issue here
That there are some women and girls

They have a large clitoris and slightly high

In that case requires circumcision
By a very small

This is to avoid falling into adultery in early age

That's just flat out barbaric. I rarely say things like that about religions, I'm willing to let people live and let live, but that is barbaric: mutilating children's genitals because it will prevent adultery? No. That's not acceptable, and my sympathy to any girls who suffers parents like that, who think they are doing it for her good.


Good luck with your proselytising. Hopefully nobody is crazy enough to fall into what you're selling here.

 

[Mark of Zorro]

Whatever the "purpose", I don't see how female circumcision is barbaric and male circumcision escapes your wrath nahadef.

In santana3's post, he points out that Mohammad said to only cut the foreskin (clitoral hood I suppose). What's the difference? Or were you condemning both when you just said "children"?

Also he points to likelihood of committing adultery as the "problem" and is not just defending it as being from an old book. Not that I agree one wit that adultery is a "real" problem, but Muslims are by far not the only ones thinking that way. They may be one of few dealing with it by mutilation though.

But, what I fail to see is how cutting the clitoral hood but not the clitoris itself prevents adultery anyway.

All that said, it is difficult to follow the post. He seems to completely contradict himself in that later half of the post you quoted. It seems the part you quoted was a paraphrase of someone else?? I am really not sure.

 

[nahadef]

I think male circumcision is appalling too, but it's much less appalling than female circumcision, since men can still get lots sexual pleasure afterwards, and women lose their most sensitive and pleasurable spot.

They are both bad, but female circumcision is far worse. It's not really something I'm interested in debating. Anyway, all that stuff is pretty close to nonsense, so don't bother making an issue over the fact I picked one point in particular to point at. It's a waste of time to go through it point by point, and the guy isn't interested in reading a reply.

 

[SevenStarsHK2N]

Whatever the "purpose", I don't see how female circumcision is barbaric

Good god, i have no idea how you can say this - you REALLY must be ignorant.

seriously wow -

as for shaved pubes, lol

funny how that actually increases your risk of infection, std's and disease. - modern science, isn't it great

on women in general:

 

[Hezam]

As i expected, Santana is throwing posts randomly trying to explain some Islamic things but he confused people by wrong explainations !
I will be back to explain the " Reasons " in few hours.
*Laughs*

 

[Mark of Zorro]

since men can still get lots sexual pleasure afterwards, and women lose their most sensitive and pleasurable spot.

They are both bad, but female circumcision is far worse.

Well, I guess we have already established that you don't listen sometimes.

It's not really something I'm interested in debating.

Then don't debate. Listen.

so don't bother making an issue over the fact I picked one point in particular to point at. It's a waste of time to go through it point by point, and the guy isn't interested in reading a reply.

There was a reason why I asked if you thought it barbaric for both boys and girls. Its pretty much essential to establish if you are being a hypocrite or not. Glad to see its "not."

 

[Mark of Zorro]

Good god, i have no idea how you can say this - you REALLY must be ignorant.

seriously wow -

Its simply incredible how ignorant and rude you are and somehow, you don't realize it at all.

I could be nice and say you have been socially conditioned by the mass media, but I won't. You are BRAINWASHED. The mass media lies and embellishes with IMPUNITY, and one of the major topics they do that with is anything concerning a feminist agenda. And you lap it up like its mother's milk.

I recently watched a video about a British woman with huge hanging labia. She went to the doctor to get them removed. He called it labiaplasty. But if it happened in Africa you and the press would call it female circumcision or genital mutilation.

There are different types of female circumcision, and I bet you did not know that because the ignorant presumptuous one here is YOU and always has been. You know, you can actually look stuff like this up from decent sources instead of trusting the Daily Mail for your information?

That said, I do not support the types of female circumcision that entail cutting any part of the clitoris or sewing up of the vagina. That is just plain sick. But I see no reason to get all throw down angry over cutting the labia and clitoral hood. Once those are healed, the effect on sexual pleasure is debatable at best.

And now that you have been educated again 7stars, I wonder if you are going to abandon this thread like you did the last?

 

[nahadef]

Well, I guess we have already established that you don't listen sometimes.

Your establishing point is an insult. Again, look in the mirror.

I think it's the relentless hostility and arrogance in your posts causing me to blank out on them at this point. When you act like a complete dick 95% of the time, people will simply ignore you, or ask you to be quiet. That's what I have chosen to do. The thing is, it wasn't about listening, it was about listening to the broken record that you have become.

Good day to you sir. I'll block your posts to keep you from being further frustrated at my inability to listen to you insult my intelligence time and again.

 

[Mark of Zorro]

The thing is, it wasn't about listening, it was about listening to the broken record that you have become.

Right. When I started talking about female circumcision, I was actually talking about something else, right? Cause I don't do honest discussion.

I think it's the relentless hostility and arrogance in your posts causing me to blank out on them at this point.

Yeah, I know. You can see how I dived right into this thread with hostility and arrogance, so we can see why I should get the responses I got from you and 7stars quite clearly, you with your fingers in your ears to me and not wanting to even talk about how you just insulted the traditions of several cultures, and him calling me ignorant. But yeah, clearly I am the dick here.

And yeah, I suppose I could sugar coat the truth to the point that you won't actually taste the bitterness of the truth bit, but then I could write messages to no one in particular, stuff them in a bottle and toss them in the ocean as well.

 

[Mark of Zorro]

When female circumcision comes up, its like telling a South American jungle tribesman about male circumcision in America and he responds, "What!? You chop off baby boy's penises! That's crazy!" And you are like "No, no, no! Its different." and he says "Oh, you Americans are fracking crazy! I got to keep you away from poor sons! Get out of my hut and of my lands you crazy person!".

Female circumcision is complicated enough that every culture does it a bit differently. There are three somewhat distinct types. Type 1 is removal of the clitoral hood only or both the hood and the clitoris. The only type I would let go is removal of the hood only and IMHO only that should be termed female circumcision. Removal of the clitoris is horrible and evil in my view. And types 2,3 and 4 (four is more random) only get worse. Those are rightly called female genital mutilation. I find it rather bizarre that the types don't make a distinction between removal of the clitoris and leaving it intact. Its night and day.

In the west, some women get clit piercings, so imagine the sentiments of people who frown on female promiscuity even more than the west does. Its also useful to note that female circumcision was sometimes practiced in the west to reduce female promiscuity, but that was stopped completely in the 60s. And was probably practiced primarily thanks to this nutcase John Harvey Kellogg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One possible modification that exists for the opposite reason is to have the hood pierced and insert jewellery, both for adornment and physical pleasure. Though much less common, other women opt to have their own hood surgically trimmed or removed so as to permanently expose part or all of the clitoral head. Such procedures, and FGM in general, were once performed on many children in Western countries such as the United States as well, to discourage masturbation and reduce diseases believed to relate to it, but by the 1960s this practice was recognized[by whom?] as abusive and discontinued.

Clitoral hood - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Mark of Zorro]

Here is an interesting link explaining why reflexive condemnation of female circumcision reduces knowledge that could aid women who have had it, and how it does not help convince people to break with the tradition.


Female ﾂ"Circumcisionﾂ"

 

[Mark of Zorro]

as for shaved pubes, lol

funny how that actually increases your risk of infection, std's and disease. - modern science, isn't it great

I have to cast serious doubts on that. My initial sentiment was that people who shave would reasonably be expected to be more sexually promiscuous and active.

And I also imagine it would be for specific diseases, such as herpes, rather than STDs in general.

Further, if people are getting infections for using unsterilized razors, well, its not the shaving, ITS THE DIRTY RAZOR.

But hey, if you could link us to where you got this information, it would be a big help.

 

[SevenStarsHK2N]

ok raise your hands if you actually know people (specifically women) from a region of Africa where female circumcision is carried out on young girls?

*raises hand* - *looks around*

no, no one else?

Ok so seeing as I am taking my information from first hand sources, and not wikipedia i shall let you in on a little secret. It's barbaric.

It's no good you just deciding - oh well I only call THIS circumcision , well i only call the stressful eradication of a race genocide, anything less than success is just a hate (war) crime.

Adults can do whatever they want to their body, but you should not force children to have parts of their genitals hacked off.
It can easily create complications later on in life, physical as well as psychological.

I can't stand it when ignorant assholes assume to understand the will of god.
how can you say something so ridiculously blasphemous and ignorant.
and i don't even believe in the f*cker (being an agnostic)

What is worse is that they take the're own dumb *** interpretation of a book THAT WAS WRITTEN BY A MAN / MEN WITH AN AGENDA and use it as a means to justify attacks and restrictions on other people.

Take what you know of your religion, take what you know of god, take what you know and understand of his message - now distill it down into a single word. If the word you have is anything other than love - you've done it wrong.

 

[Mars Man]

Boy... this is going nowhere faster than a super bullet train trying to make it to the station before the latter waves of the earthquake rise up and really start shaking things up !! The only thing I'd like to offer here, is that treating the female sexual organ can be both good and bad. The entire context of the circumstances must be considered. Vaginal stimulation is arguable the better method of orgasm contraction initiation, but some of the sensory receptors are more 'up front' for stimulation and lubrication. So, to put it kind of humoursly (and please allow me this one once, ladies of the house...if any are reading) if you remove the flaps, the plane will have a slightly harder time getting off the ground--though not altogether impossible in some cases. But if the flaps are not working correctly, causing other troubles, or whatever, then yeah, removing them will at least eliminate that possible (in such cases, I take it) trouble.

So, carry on, but... folks, it might be good just to let the OP have his soap box? If no one happens to be in the park, well, at least no one will then have to be concerned about misguided folk given a bit too narrowly offered and misinformed sermons. We might not want to get too worked up over it all, in the meanwhile, right? (Just and only to see if I can prevent further trouble?)

 

[Hezam]

The issue here
That there are some women and girls

They have a large clitoris and slightly high

In that case requires circumcision
By a very small

This is to avoid falling into adultery in early age

This makes her think of committing adultery with the other

And circumcision in those cases
Protection and prevention

First, It's allowed not a must...That means the girl can do it if she wants or not if she does not want to.
Second, Not even 001% of Muslims do this to their women ! so please don't make it sounds like "Muslims" cut their women's ....!
Third, If this is not allowed some people will come and say " Why can't girls do that if they want ?".

And for Men, It's a Must to remove that part for "Cleaning & Health" purpose not for anything else.

And By the way Santana, i already told you that posting about Islam randomly without true explanations does NOT serve it at all, And i find your posts as a " Spam" if not "Preaching" !!

 

[Mark of Zorro]

ok raise your hands if you actually know people (specifically women) from a region of Africa where female circumcision is carried out on young girls?

*raises hand* - *looks around*

no, no one else?

Ok so seeing as I am taking my information from first hand sources, and not wikipedia i shall let you in on a little secret. It's barbaric.

So, because you claim to know some women I don't know, you expect me to ditch empirical evidence collected from health care professionals and compiled into resources that Wikipedia and others make use of? Meanwhile, I have serious doubts that you ever saw the vaginas of these women. I am positive you were not there when and if the circumcision or genital mutilation was done. Plus, these are the women who left their countries right? Not the women who remain in their countries proud of their status as circumcised women, right? You are talking about, for all intents and purposes, angry refugees, yes?

And not once have you gone into the different types of female circumcision or even told us what type those women have. Yet, you dead pan declare that its ALL barbaric, totally dismissing all caveats I have put forth, which makes 3.5 of the 4 types I have mentioned as unacceptable to me. I mean you do realize that I agree with your position in 3.5 of the 4 types yes? So you just have to get all high and mighty and froth at the mouth righteous over that .5, yes?

You are real frakking piece of work, you know that?

It's no good you just deciding - oh well I only call THIS circumcision , well i only call the stressful eradication of a race genocide, anything less than success is just a hate (war) crime.

You say this without challenging directly any specifics I have said. Look dude, if you have a problem with wiki or any of my statements, you can either challenge each piece of information directly or you can just stop being such a self-righteous A-hole, how bout that?

For example, if you have some sort of clear reason why removal of the clitoral hood but not the clitoris is so horrible and barbaric, you could just come out and explain it.

Adults can do whatever they want to their body, but you should not force children to have parts of their genitals hacked off.
It can easily create complications later on in life, physical as well as psychological.

Nobody does convoluted quite like you man. NOBODY should be forced to suffer any sort of non-consensual alterations of their genitals, NOT JUST CHILDREN. That said, pre-teens growing up in these societies realize the consequences of refusing these proceedures, and so it is basically consensual in some cases. However, I don't consider their educations to be complete or unbiased. Trouble is, adults are just as poorly informed, so its hard for me to see this as a case of out and out trickery. But yes, physical force is absolutely out.

Take what you know of your religion, take what you know of god, take what you know and understand of his message - now distill it down into a single word. If the word you have is anything other than love - you've done it wrong.

What you don't understand is that these people are confused on one hand and have some stupid social mores even more stupid than some of the ones we have. Working in the confines of those things, they have come up with this to help girls fit in, adjust and survive. THIS IS LOVE. If they did not do this, in these societies, the girls would SUFFER EVEN MORE in many if not most cases.

But yes the stupidity of removing clitorises really should end. But that won't happen until female sexuality receives at least the same degree of acceptance of other places in the world, and even western society and Christianity are hardly totally accepting of female sexuality. Its very nearly a case of "Doctor heal thyself" as intolerant of female sexuality even the west is. It was not all that long ago that John Harvey Kellogg was burning of women's clitorises with carbolic acid in America (if I did not already mention this). 20th century.

 

[santana3]

Good discussion

The problem is not in the you know many things

But

Problem is to apply what I learned from the things

That is the surprise and the monopoly of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him

A commitment to the application of Islamic law

Unlike other religions

I see long nails - and the hair under the armpit - and the genitals Harafy

Are revolting
That makes me feel that Islam is a religion of cleanliness

Purity and hygiene
Inherent
Permanently
Every Muslim
Prayer and reading the Qur'an
Clothing
And body

As well as bathing
And cleaning by water
After urination and defecation

On the contrary,
West
Wipe the towel and put perfume to hide the smell and drink wine and eat pork

Non-Muslim
Full of germs and bacteria
Internally and externally
More than you can imagine

---------


A New Study

The new study says that Male circumcision decrease the opportunity of the infection by the disease of immunodeficiency (AIDS). Officially United Nations agrees to facilitate Male circumcision in African countries. As UNAIDS declared that Male circumcision is an important step in fighting with AIDS. YOB LANG as an AIDS expert in the medical center of Amsterdam agrees on that opinion.

He says: (there is a lack of prevention from AIDS, every year there are new 4 million infections , we know that condom has an efficiency , but it is not used and is not available and we have to apply all available techniques to reduce the infection by AIDS . Male circumcision reduces the danger of transferring the disease from women to men by 50 to 60 % this is a high percentage.)

In Africa there are 25 million person infected by AIDS from total of 40 million in the entire world. Infection spreads in Africa through sexual relations between man and woman, World health organization and the UNAIDS are expecting reduction of the infection by AIDS because of Male circumcision during the next 20 years by 6 million infection.

There is no evidence that women are less exposed to the disease when they practice a sexual relation with a circumcised man, but there are continuous studies concerning that issue. There is a summarized study which illustrate that AIDS transition ratio from men to women will be deceased. But effect of that could be limited in comparison with the disease transition from women to men. We need to use women techniques which are unknown by men.

But it would be so dangerous if circumcised men decided not to use condom especially in African countries where Rape is common. Edification is so important. If circumcised men will not use condom, reversed results may occur as Circumcision don't offer full protection. And infection by AIDS may increase. United Nations confirms on the linking between the success of Circumcision and dissemination of sexual knowledge to fight AIDS.

In general circumcised men represent 30 % of men in the world. And that is due to religious reasons for Jews, Muslims and in some cases for protective reasons. According to UN, countries should facilitate Circumcision, as cost of the Circumcise operation is from 50 to 100 $ for each male. UN suggests making it free of charge.

Male circumcision is also useful for women

A new three studies confirmed that circumcision may protect men from AIDS and also protect women from a transferred virus through sexual relations which may cause cervical cancer. Published results in journal of Infectious Diseases in 16/12/2008 may increase the debate about the importance of men and new born male circumcision to protect their health and health of their wife in the future.

Dr Bertrand Auvert from Versailles University and his colleagues in South Africa had examined 1200 man who visits a clinic in south Africa and they found that less than 15% of the circumcised men and 22% of the non circumcised men had infected by virus ( HPV) which cause cervical cancer and Genital diseases . Researchers had reported '' these results explains why women who are in sexual relations with circumcised men have a low possibility to be infected by cervical cancer in comparison with other women."

A result of another research on some American men was less clear, but Carey Nelson from University of Oregon for science and health and his colleague said that they had found some new indications that circumcision may protect men. Circumcised men were 50% less possible to be exposed to virus (HPV) than non circumcised men.

In the third study, lee Warner from the American centers for struggling and prevention of diseases and his colleagues had examined afro American people in Baltimore and they found that only 10 % of circumcised men are exposed to be infected by that virus in comparison with 22 % of non circumcised men . Statistics says that 33 million person all over the world are infected by AIDS which is a disease with no treatment. There are 20 million American who are infected by virus (HPV). This virus is the most common virus to be spread through sexual relations and cause cervical cancer which kills every year more than 300000 women.


From here, we clearly see the mercy of Allah and His Messenger for People

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thank's to all

 

[Hezam]

On the contrary,
West
Wipe the towel and put perfume to hide the smell and drink wine and eat pork

Non-Muslim
Full of germs and bacteria
Internally and externally
More than you can imagine

Let me start with the "West", I believe that you agree with me as many muslims do that the Western people epsecially in the US and EU they clean them selves more than many muslims, They look clean..VERY clean, Someone will say "Because they are rich" okay that's true but even tho i don't know why half Muslims in the ME do not care about their Appearance and their smell...It doesn't cost too much to clean your self !
Also, I don't know why 80% of the people in the ME do not use "ToothBrush" or at least the Islamic version of it " Siwak" ....
The problem is that Muslims created amazing things but few muslims use them and toothbrush is one example.

Pork, Many Muslims think that prok meat is dirty ! Well, It's not about dirty it's about Law since pork is forbidden in Judaism and Christianity and Islam.

Non-Muslims, Japanese, Koreans are not muslims, But they are Sooooooooooooooooooooooooo Clean !

 

[nahadef]

Non-Muslims, Japanese, Koreans are not muslims, But they are Sooooooooooooooooooooooooo Clean !

It's true! I shower daily, and wash my face and hands a few times a day.

On top of that, pork is awesomely delicious. Ham, bacon, pork chops, all of it.

Hezam, you were correct earlier stating that Santana does Muslims a disservice (my words, not yours). It's quaint making a book the basis of your life, but confidently expressing untrue 'facts' based on that book makes your cause weaker.

I am not Muslim, and at this point in my life, won't become so. But I'm happy to live along side Muslims, as long as they can respect me. Reading stuff like that only shows that they can't respect me (or at least Santana can't). I live in Japan, and am not Shinto or Buddhist, but in my decade here, have never heard/read of anyone of that culture saying anything as insulting as that.

Santana makes Muslims look bad.