I think I may be being tricked into a bad tattoo idea

[Billy Hann]

I want to get a tattoo that will constantly remind me to never give up on my Japanese studies. Can you recommend something along the lines of "perseverance" or "never give up"

I think I am being tricked by this person.

( 不撓不屈 (ふとうふくつ) die hard
刻苦勉励（こっくべんれい） work hard
As you know, in Japan, male like the simple 4 letters idioms.
Choose any one you like, they are all the same sense.
Better, if you put them framed in a Japanese traditional playing card "HANAFUDA".
Source(s):

"HANAFUDA"

花札 )

I really want this tattoo. (Don't worry this isn't an impulse thing I have other tattoos and learning Japanese has been a life long goal I'm only just now acquiring the resources. I like these ones (臥薪嘗胆（がしんしょうたん） endurance and perseverance & 百折不撓（ひゃくせつふとう） never give up never surrender) But I don't like the idea of the "four letter idioms" because they look difficult to read which makes me think they are kanji which i am not ready to learn yet. Google translate doesn't give the same translations as this person, but I know that could be an issue with the site because Japanese is difficult to translate to English. Also the romaji of those would help me decide as well. Please help and I will appreciate it very much. Arigatou gozaimasu/ありがとうございます

 

[nahadef]

Well, just a word in advance, it's not always good to get a tattoo in a language you don't understand. That being said, maybe you want to get things done in a Japanese style.

For example, Japanese just throw out the old 頑張ろう！(do one's best) as a never give up idiom. That's the mantra for everything from marathons to tsunami recovery.

If you want to have "never give up," do you want it as a command or a statement? As a command, something like 諦めるな sounds cute to me, from a JSL speaker's perspective. But, probably 諦めない is better, as a personal mantra.

I would hold off on it a few years though, and make that your goal and motive to learn Japanese.

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

Ask the yakuza. I'm sure they'll give you good advice.

 

[Mike Cash]

Wait until your studies progress enough that you don't have to ask.

 

[Billy Hann]

Wait until your studies progress enough that you don't have to ask.

I thank you all for your replies. After enough searching I've decided to go with Ganbaru (頑張る) Most likely written in hiragana (がんばる) as it will cost me less and quite frankly I am terrified to learn Kanji even though I know eventually I have to learn at least some of the most common kanji. The reason for this tattoo is so that when me (or my girlfriend) notice the tattoo I (or my girlfriend) will force me to go, I dunno, say "learn this particle and when/why is is used) or to go study a few kana I am not familiar with. This isn't a tattoo I will regret or be even slightly embarassed about having forever (even if it was slightly incorrect). The only embarassing thing would be to move to Japan (when I hopefully do) and people laugh at my tattoo, but at that point I will have the money to fix the tattoo so it means something more, umm, formal? correct? I guess are the words I'm looking for. I appreciate everyone's responses. Even the one about the Yakuza, I got a laugh out of that one actually . Thanks everyone!

P.S I do have a minor understanding of the language and am improving daily. And as for the culture, I've learned a lot from books, and also Gaki no Tsukai and various other Japanese shows I watch daily.

P.P.S If anyone hasn't watched Downtown no Gaki no Tsukai ya Arayhende!! (Probably not spelled correctly) I highly recommend it for a laugh.

 

[Mike Cash]

Seriously, Billy, wait a while on this.

Learning kana only takes a few hours and if your studies are at the point that seeing the tattoo is going to inspire you to go learn a few more kana, then your studies aren't at the point where you know if you're going to stick with this or not. People all afire to learn Japanese have a way of burning out and dropping out very quickly. That tattoo that is supposed to be a reminder to study right now could very well turn into a lifelong reminder of how you burned out and gave up anyway after a short while. Frankly, if you need some ink on your skin to motivate you to study, then you don't have enough motivation to stick with it anyway. This is a really bad idea.

 

[Billy Hann]

Once again everybody thanks for your opinions. But as previously stated I've already decided on Ganbaru, if this doesn't mean perseverance or the various other similar translations or what it states on the wiki page Ganbaru - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia then I don't need to be talked out of this. I'm getting the tattoo because I absolutely love Japan and their culture. I have friends with their names in kanji as tattoos, now I'm not an idiot, their "name" for all I know is actually stating "I have the clap" or something not even close to their name. Atleast I know what mine says and stands for. And learning kana doesn't take a few hours. Not the way I want to learn it. I want to know how to read and write it not just learn how to write or read simple common greetings and such. Sorry that you guys think this is a bad idea. I already have the motivation, the tattoo isnt my sole motivation, it will also be a reminder at the end that I persevered and self taught my self a whole new language. Thanks.

Also, I like to stick with things. If I didn't stick with the Japanese then being able to read ganbaru on my arm and knowing what it means, whether it is in a different language or not, is not going to be a constant reminder that I didn't learn Japanese, it will be a constant reminder to persevere.

 

[Mike Cash]

How long do you think it is going to take you to learn to read and write the tiny handful of kana symbols?

Anyway, please don't make this question the sum total of your participation with us. We have a "Learning Japanese" section in which you can post questions about learning Japanese and receive good help.

 

[Glenski]

Just because you love a country or its culture today, that doesn't mean you should decorate your body with semi-permanent etchings of its language. Get a t-shirt if all you want to do is show phrases or expressions that suit your taste.

It's cheaper.
It's less likely to be snubbed by others.
It's more likely to be seen and asked about innocuously by others.
If there is a mistake, you can throw away the shirt and have a new one made more cheaply.
More Kanji Tattoo Mistakes | BME: Tattoo, Piercing and Body Modification News
Cool Tat, Too Bad It's Gibberish - New York Times
Kanji Tattoo Mistakes - How to Avoid Them
Oh. My. God. (Unbelievably bad kanji tattoos) - Herro Flom Japan


And, it's not just foreign languages that tattoo artists misspell.
The 10 Greatest Misspelled Tattoos | The Measure
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Tattoo's WORST SPELLING MISTAKES!!! - Gallery

If you sometime down the road lose your interest/love for Japan for any reason that you can't imagine now, you can always throw away the shirt.

Have you ever been here, or are you basing your love of the culture on books, movies, a girlfriend, and manga?

 

[Billy Hann]

How long do you think it is going to take you to learn to read and write the tiny handful of kana symbols?
Anyway, please don't make this question the sum total of your participation with us. We have a "Learning Japanese" section in which you can post questions about learning Japanese and receive good help.

Tiny handfull. To my understanding there are 46 hiragana and 46 katakana 1 each corresponding to the sound of the other. Plus there is a lot of kanji, A LOT OF KANJI. I need to do more than learn to read and write. I need to learn to read, write, and speak the language, which will take a lot of time and perseverance. Not just learn the syllabaries. I need to be able to compose my own phrases and understand other peoples. I apologise if you were led to believe otherwise, if so, my bad. And don't worry, I can't learn an entire language from books in a country where very little people speak the language. I will make full use of the forum in the very near future. Once again I'm sorry that you think this is a bad idea. You may be correct. If so, I will alert you in the future through this forum and let you know you were correct and I'm an idiot.

EDIT: I apologize if I seem like I'm being rude or disrespectful in anyway, just trying to give my opinion and hear you guys out when it comes to your own.

---------- Post added at 19:49 ---------- Previous post was at 19:41 ----------

Just because you love a country or its culture today, that doesn't mean you should decorate your body with semi-permanent etchings of its language. Get a t-shirt if all you want to do is show phrases or expressions that suit your taste.

It's cheaper.
It's less likely to be snubbed by others.
It's more likely to be seen and asked about innocuously by others.
If you sometime down the road lose your interest/love for Japan for any reason that you can't imagine now, you can always throw away the shirt.

Have you ever been here, or are you basing your love of the culture on books, movies, a girlfriend, and manga?

I've been fascinated with Japanese culture and their writing system since I was 11 years old. I follow their news and exclusively watch and read their TV and literature over Canadian and US. I've donated to Japanese relief funds after major natural disasters. This has been a semi life long passion. But it really seems like people on here think I just want a Japanese tattoo to look cool or something. If that was the case I would get a samurai fighting a dragon on my back.

 

[Mike Cash]

Yes, Billy, I am well familiar with the kana. I learned them a long time ago. It didn't take that long to learn them. Learning them isn't that big a deal. They are a tiny handful in comparison to kanji. If the prospect of learning the kana seems that daunting to you, then kanji are going to blow your mind. I'm not going to try to talk you out of the tattoo. I've said my bit on that and I assume you're an adult. You're perfectly free to take or ignore any advice you wish.

Ordinarily I wouldn't ask, but since we don't know your current age it is hard to place "since I was 11" in context. How old are you now?

 

[Billy Hann]

Yes, Billy, I am well familiar with the kana. I learned them a long time ago. It didn't take that long to learn them. Learning them isn't that big a deal. They are a tiny handful in comparison to kanji. If the prospect of learning the kana seems that daunting to you, then kanji are going to blow your mind. I'm not going to try to talk you out of the tattoo. I've said my bit on that and I assume you're an adult. You're perfectly free to take or ignore any advice you wish.

Ordinarily I wouldn't ask, but since we don't know your current age it is hard to place "since I was 11" in context. How old are you now?

I'm 23, and I'm well aware kanji is going to blow my mind. That's what scares me about it. Like I've previously stated Kanji is obviously something I need to learn. But the fact that I am learning kana now and need to learn kanji later on is irrelevant we both know I need to learn them. But to be fair, I'm starting to get kind of sick of my Japanese conversations going as far as , "Konnichiwa, Genki desu ka? Genki desu! Kumori desu ka? Kumori desu. " This isn't just a hobby of mine. It's a passion. I'm done with this forum for now though because it's just making me feel bad (not you in particular). I'll repost something after my tattoo is finished and maybe I'll add a dragon just so it "looks cool" as some of the yahoo answers community so openly suggested to mock me. Bye for now. Looking forward to communicating with you guys later on when I need help with my studies.

 

[nahadef]

Once again everybody thanks for your opinions. But as previously stated I've already decided on Ganbaru, if this doesn't mean perseverance or the various other similar translations or what it states on the wiki page Ganbaru - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia then I don't need to be talked out of this.

I think you didn't read my post very well. I used kanji, but it shouldn't be any trouble to copy paste it into google. I wrote a better version of "ganbaru."

You want "ganbaru." That's weird. Like, Japanese people will snicker at you weird. You almost never hear that. Verbs in Japanese aren't the same as in English, and having that is a bad idea. You need to conjugate it. Bad plan, if you're level is that low that you can't see that.

For the record, I started studying Japanese when I was 28 (37 now), and am mostly fluent now (in daily conversation, at least). My wife is Japanese, and we use Japanese at home daily. I have about 500 kanji, the level of a 10 year-old, and it gets you through life here well enough. But it was useless to study kanji at all until I had a base of vocabulary to attach them to.

I really recommend you read and listen to stories like this to keep you motivated rather than getting ink. If you get this "がんばる" tattoo, it will be the number one deterrent in ever dating a girl here. They will be too busy snickering to take you seriously. You're going to have to be very, very handsome to get away with something as silly as that permanently etched on your body.

 

[Mike Cash]

I hear ganbaru quite a bit.

 

[nahadef]

I tend to hear gambarou, gambare, gambatte, gambarimasu, but not so much gambaru on its own. But, the point is, if the OP can't tell the difference between them all, it's a bad idea.

 

[Mike Cash]

You would think that after a dozen years of a "passion" he'd be a bit further along.

 

[Billy Hann]

I think you didn't read my post very well. I used kanji, but it shouldn't be any trouble to copy paste it into google. I wrote a better version of "ganbaru."

You want "ganbaru." That's weird. Like, Japanese people will snicker at you weird. You almost never hear that. Verbs in Japanese aren't the same as in English, and having that is a bad idea. You need to conjugate it. Bad plan, if you're level is that low that you can't see that.

For the record, I started studying Japanese when I was 28 (37 now), and am mostly fluent now (in daily conversation, at least). My wife is Japanese, and we use Japanese at home daily. I have about 500 kanji, the level of a 10 year-old, and it gets you through life here well enough. But it was useless to study kanji at all until I had a base of vocabulary to attach them to.

I really recommend you read and listen to stories like this to keep you motivated rather than getting ink. If you get this "窶堋ｪ窶堙ｱ窶堙寂?堙ｩ" tattoo, it will be the number one deterrent in ever dating a girl here. They will be too busy snickering to take you seriously. You're going to have to be very, very handsome to get away with something as silly as that permanently etched on your body.

Well thats why I came to this forum, for someone to give me advice on what I should get, not get scorned for getting a tattoo. If it needs to be conjugated that was the kind of help I was looking for. Not people telling me not to get ink. I have received zero help with my question, the only responses I've received is people telling me it was a bad idea and I dont understand the culture and yadda yadda yadda. If this is a bad idea then I guess it's my own bad idea and my own bad choice. But I've had this planned for six months now.

"After the 2011 Tōhoku earthquake and tsunami, "gambaru" was one of the most commonly heard expressions"

"Gambaru focuses attention on the importance of finishing a task and never stopping until a goal is achieved. The continuing effort to overcome obstacles (even if not successful) is an important concept in Japan.
The word ganbaru originates from the corollary concept of gaman.[10] Unlike gaman which is passive, ganbaru is the active process of doing something.[11]"

finishing a task and never stopping until a goal is achieved, The continuing effort to overcome obstacles (even if not successful) is an important concept in Japan. These really sound like the message I am trying to convey to myself.

If you would like to conjugate this for me then be my guest and I would be greatful for you doing it and explaining why it needs to be conjugated and what the importance of it is. Also if girls will snicker at me and not date me over a tattoo they dont deserve me. Not to mention I already have a girlfriend that loves me no matter what I have written permanently on my body.

---------- Post added at 22:10 ---------- Previous post was at 22:04 ----------

I didn't have access to resources to learn until a short time ago. Nor am I not so sure if I want to learn after the feed back I have been getting. Maybe you guys are right and I should just give up.

---------- Post added at 22:15 ---------- Previous post was at 22:10 ----------

I hear ganbaru quite a bit.

Could you explain to me in what context you hear the term? If I can look at my arm at any given time and it is correctly telling me to continue, don't quit, persevere, push yourself, that kind of thing then I am more than happy with it. Even if Japanese girls will snicker at it, let them snicker. I've been laughed at for worse and I suffered far more severe trauma than being laughed at for a tattoo that can be covered up by a long sleeve shirt.

 

[nahadef]

Well thats why I came to this forum, for someone to give me advice on what I should get, not get scorned for getting a tattoo. If it needs to be conjugated that was the kind of help I was looking for. Not people telling me not to get ink. I have received zero help with my question, the only responses I've received is people telling me it was a bad idea and I dont understand the culture and yadda yadda yadda. If this is a bad idea then I guess it's my own bad idea and my own bad choice. But I've had this planned for six months now.

Then you still haven't read my first post, where I told you what you should get. I tried. You're welcome.

 

[Billy Hann]

Then you still haven't read my first post, where I told you what you should get. I tried. You're welcome.

I apologize I kind of got distracted with all the other posts.

 

[Mike Cash]

Nobody said you should give up. I suggested you postpone a decision about the tattoo until your studies have progressed. Your "oh well, maybe I should just give up" reaction was precisely what I had in mind when I suggested the tattoo could end up being a reminder of a failure you'd rather not be reminded of rather than a reminder to study. If you're going to give up before you even have a chance to burn out, then your passion was actually an mild obsession rather than a passion.

Don't get in a rush. You're looking at a very long process when it comes to learning Japanese, if you truly want to learn it well. You mention perhaps living here someday. Have you looked into visa eligibility? What sort of work do you envision yourself doing here?

Regarding the contexts in which I hear "ganbaru"....I hear it in contexts where that is the appropriate conjugation rather than some other conjugation.

 

[nahadef]

I just had a silly chat about this with my wife. She laughed a lot. She said it would look very uncool. And that though someone might get a kanji word, having a word using hiragana is strange (I've never seen it, for sure). Having it all hiragana would be really weird. And she agreed that it would be unattractive. Not because the girl is shallow, but because you're being weird. You have to consider that it's their culture, so you can't judge them for their reaction to your poor use of their language. I can't think of a great comparison into English, but you might as well have a spelling mistake in your tattoo.

Anyway, my wife said something like 忍耐 (nintai) might be used to get that across. If you refuse to use kanji, good luck!

 

[Mike Cash]

What is silly is the contrast between ardent professions of a long-held zeal to do this no matter what and mere hours later contemplating giving up.

 

[Billy Hann]

Nobody said you should give up. I suggested you postpone a decision about the tattoo until your studies have progressed. Your "oh well, maybe I should just give up" reaction was precisely what I had in mind when I suggested the tattoo could end up being a reminder of a failure you'd rather not be reminded of rather than a reminder to study. If you're going to give up before you even have a chance to burn out, then your passion was actually an mild obsession rather than a passion.


Don't get in a rush. You're looking at a very long process when it comes to learning Japanese, if you truly want to learn it well. You mention perhaps living here someday. Have you looked into visa eligibility? What sort of work do you envision yourself doing here?

Regarding the contexts in which I hear "ganbaru"....I hear it in contexts where that is the appropriate conjugation rather than some other conjugation.

But the conjugations are the part I don't understand. I probably shouldn't have said give up that was the wrong choice of words. I never plan to give up. But isn't "Ganbaru" conjugated exactly how I need it to be in my situation? it is me saying to myself persevere to the point where I try my hardest to succeed (even if unsuccesfully) , committing myself to a task until it is completed (or as near completion as I can get I guess because I can't learn everything about Japanese before I pass away). I'm not saying it formally, saying it forcfully to someone, asking nicely or impolitely. I hope you get my point.

 

[Mike Cash]

Personally, if I were in your shoes I'd forget any conjugation of ganbaru, whether kanji or kana, and go with something like 忍耐 or 辛抱. Probably 忍耐. Not only does it make a better and more appropriate tattoo, you have the kewlness of using one of the same kanji as in 忍者 (ninja ).

 

[Billy Hann]

I just had a silly chat about this with my wife. She laughed a lot. She said it would look very uncool. And that though someone might get a kanji word, having a word using hiragana is strange (I've never seen it, for sure). Having it all hiragana would be really weird. And she agreed that it would be unattractive. Not because the girl is shallow, but because you're being weird. You have to consider that it's their culture, so you can't judge them for their reaction to your poor use of their language. I can't think of a great comparison into English, but you might as well have a spelling mistake in your tattoo.

Anyway, my wife said something like 忍耐 (nintai) might be used to get that across. If you refuse to use kanji, good luck!

Well if your wife and you speak fluent japanese then can you suggest a way for me to write ganbaru in a combination of kanji and hiragana, kanji and katakana, or kanji and kana? Or would this still be a bad idea. I just want to convey "perseverance". Thats all I'm asking for. I'm just been getting so frustrated with the whole "this is a bad idea" that ive been getting from most people. I'll deal with the kanji if thats what needs to be done.