人に対する気配り / 人が何か言う前に... / それに、何かのグループに入れば... / 私は二度目に日本に行った時 ...

eeky

先輩
Joined
8 Jun 2010
Messages
2,431
Reaction score
22
Hi!

1. The speaker has said that he thinks Japanese people place a high value on the group that they belong to, and has been asked for examples. He starts by saying

例えば、まあ、人に対する気配りですか。

I don't really understand this sentence. My best guess is something like "Well, for example, people show consideration to the people they are with, don't they?". Is that anywhere close?


2. 人が何か言う前にその人が何を考えているかということ に気を使う。

My translation: "Before someone says something, they take care to ask what the other person thinks."

Is this OK?


3. それに、何かのグループに入れば、すぐ友達ができるので、自分の方から積極 的にほかの人たちに働きかけなくても友達が作りやすか ったですね。

My translation attempt:

それに = Also,

何かのグループに入れば = if one is in some group [of people]

すぐ友達ができるので = it's easy to make friends, so

自分の方から積極的にほかの人たちに働きかけなくても = even if one doesn't approach other people confidently

友達が作りやすかったですね = it was easy to make friends.

Particular concerns:

a) How does ので work? The way I've translated it as "so" ("It's easy to make friends ... so I found it easy to make friends") doesn't really make sense.

b) Is the speaker talking about himself or people in general, and is he talking about a specific occasion or occasions in general?

c) I translated 自分の方から as "on my part". Is that OK?

d) I translated 働き掛ける as "approach". Is that reasonable here?


4. The speaker is talking about how the Japanese emphasis on the group rather than the individual can have its negative aspects too.

私は二度目に日本に行った時は社会人として行ったんで すが、例えば会社の中で、グループのトップの人に任せて、自分では考えないし、意見を 言わない、ていうか言えない。自分の意見をあまり言う と、それはよくないという雰囲気がありました。

My translation: "The second time I came to Japan, I came as a working adult, but, for example, in the company where I worked, things were entrusted to the group leader, and people didn't think for themselves or speak their own opinions ... or, rather, weren't able to speak them. When I expressed my opinion a little, there was a bad atmosphere."

Is this OK?
 
1. Yeah, I think so. It seems that sometimes you can pose an observation in the form of a question like that when giving examples, but I'm not sure what conditions have to be met to do that. じゃないですか seems to get used a lot for those types of situations.

2. Looks good except for "ask". I think it just means to consider what the other person is thinking, not to outright ask about it.

3. a. "It's easy to make friends" only comes up once. すぐ友達ができる is "make friends quickly". This person is quick to make friends, and because of that (i.e., ので), even without going out of his way he makes friends easily.

b. I'd say about himself specifically, or about someone else specifically.

c. Probably so, but I'd say it's highly context-driven.

d. Yeah, I'd say it's reasonable.

4. Good, but the last part I think is a more general statement: "if one were to give their opinion too much, you'd get the sense that that wasn't a good thing." Also, there's the nuance of ~という雰囲気. The kind of atmosphere it is is "that's not good" (それはよくない).
 
Thanks guys!

Isn't it 人に何か言う前に?
I just checked, and it's が in the textbook.

Further on #1, could anyone possibly explain the grammar of 人に対する気配りですか? I am very uncertain of how it works (my translation was based mostly on guesswork).
 
May I just ask which textbook are you using eeky? (I'm interested in different textbooks etc.)
It's "An Integrated Approach to Intermediate Japanese" by Miura and McGloin. I moved on to this after completing "Japanese for Everyone" (which is for beginners).
 
I just checked, and it's が in the textbook.
その人 refers to 人 at the begining of the sentence. Thus, if it's が, 人 refers to the person who says something. That's semantically odd. I suppose the particle should be に in this case.

何か言う前にその人が何を考えているかということに気を使う。
Before talking to someone, they consider what the person(= the addressee) is thinking.

Further on #1, could anyone possibly explain the grammar of 人に対する気配りですか? I am very uncertain of how it works (my translation was based mostly on guesswork).
(一例は)人に対する気配りですか
Well, an example is the consideration to the people they are with.
 
その人 refers to 人 at the begining of the sentence. Thus, if it's が, 人 refers to the person who says something.
I thought it meant:

人が何か言う前に = Before person A says something,

その人が ... に気を使う = person A takes into account

何を考えているかということ = the fact of "what does (another person, say person B) think?"

Is this interpretation not feasible?

(一例は)人に対する気配りですか
Well, an example is the consideration to the people they are with.
I think my sticking point is where the word "to" in your translation comes from, when the sentence just has 人に対する juxtaposed with 気配り with no linking words. Is this grammar similar to what we discussed here when you said that

お世話になったお礼 = "appreciation for your kindness to me"

In other words, we add what in English is a suitable preposition ("to" or "for"), even though this word is not explicitly expressed in the Japanese?
 
~に対する means "to, towards, against" etc. That's where the "to" comes from.
 
I
I thought it meant:
人が何か言う前に = Before person A says something,
その人が ... に気を使う = person A takes into account
何を考えているかということ = the fact of "what does (another person, say person B) think?"
Is this interpretation not feasible?
In that case, the subject of 考えている must be stated, for instance as below.

人が何か言う前に、その人が相手が何を考えているかということに気を使う

It sounds too repetitive and awkward, though. Anyway, it's natural to interpret その人 as the subject of 考えている and the subject of 気を使う(= Japanese people) is omitted in その人が何を考えているかということに気を使う.


I think my sticking point is where the word "to" in your translation comes from, when the sentence just has 人に対する juxtaposed with 気配り with no linking words. Is this grammar similar to what we discussed here when you said that
お世話になったお礼 = "appreciation for your kindness to me"
In other words, we add what in English is a suitable preposition ("to" or "for"), even though this word is not explicitly expressed in the Japanese?
As @Glenn -san explained, 対する acts as a kind of particles.

2 〔ある対象に向かう〕

質問に対する答え
an answer to a question

それに対して全く無関心だった
He was utterly indifferent to it.

友人に対する思いやり
consideration for a friend
「対する」の検索結果 - Yahoo!辞書
 
Back
Top Bottom