My biggest enemy - Relative and subordinate clauses

[dairwolf]

Hey there. I was just wondering if somebody here feels the same way i do. I figured that to me the hardest part when it comes to learning Japanese is actually relative and subordinate clauses. It´s not that i don´t know how to build them, that´s actually quite easy, i think. I get problems when i´m talking Japanese. I always have to think so much because the structure is just the other way round compared to the languages i know or have learned yet (German, English, French, Spanish). That which describes the Noun is in front of it in Japanese, and not behind it. What I´m trying to get at is this:

Has anyone found a way to easily use relative clauses in free speech without having to think about building them anymore?

The only way I've come up with yet is that you could ALWAYS learn how to make a relative clause out of new verbs or adjectives you learn, but you can imagine that would be tedious as hell. Is there any overview as to what possibilities there are in Japanese to build those sentences?

Whou, this one got quite long! I hope it´s still ok and that this is a thread that a lot of people can benefit from. んの人に便利なトピックになると思いますよ。 (Uh, hope this one´s right... )

Cheers, Tobi

 

[Glenn]

If you already know how to do it, then all there is left is just to do it. You have to practice it like any other skill. It's as simple as that. Listening and reading a lot helps too.

 

[Elizabeth]

The only way i´ve come up with yet is that you could ALWAYS learn how to make a relative clause out of new verbs or adjectives you learn, but you can imagine that would be tedious as hell. Is there any overview as to what possibilities there are in Japanese to build those sentences?

What's unbearable about that ? Certain word orders won't make sense of course, but grammatically you can modify nouns to make sentences with relative/subordinate clauses using complete sentences that end in anything but だ (AFAIK).

 

[sporkthedork]

I'm actually a little confused because it seems the same to me in English. You just put the relative subordinate clause in the plain/short form followed by a の, のは, or some other nominative particle after it. Can you give me an example. I do realized that your talking about actually using it in speech rather than writing/typing.

 

[Elizabeth]

I'm actually a little confused because it seems the same to me in English. You just put the relative subordinate clause in the plain/short form followed by a の, のは, or some other nominative particle after it. Can you give me an example. I do realized that your talking about actually using it in speech rather than writing/typing.

Are you thinking of 気になるのはトピック ? What is worrisome (the thing that I am concerned about) is the topic....


Subordinate clauses directly modify the noun (In this case, the worrisome トピック)

気になるトピックについて
気になるトピックとは
気になるトピックを削除したい場合は
気になるトピックをブログに書いて ....

 

[nhk9]

Hey there. I was just wondering if somebody here feels the same way i do. I figured that to me the hardest part when it comes to learning Japanese is actually relative and subordinate clauses. It´s not that i don´t know how to build them, that´s actually quite easy, i think. I get problems when i´m talking Japanese. I always have to think so much because the structure is just the other way round compared to the languages i know or have learned yet (German, English, French, Spanish). That which describes the Noun is in front of it in Japanese, and not behind it. What i´m trying to get at is this:
Has anyone found a way to easily use relative clauses in free speech without having to think about building them anymore?
The only way i´ve come up with yet is that you could ALWAYS learn how to make a relative clause out of new verbs or adjectives you learn, but you can imagine that would be tedious as hell. Is there any overview as to what possibilities there are in Japanese to build those sentences?
Whou, this one got quite long! I hope it´s still ok and that this is a thread that a lot of people can benefit from. たくさんの人に便利なトピックになると思いますよ。 (Uh, hope this one´s right... )
Cheers, Tobi

I am surprise to hear this from someone who knows German. The subordinate and relative clauses in Japanese are much easier.

My advice is this:
Read lots and lots and lots. Try to pick out some simple encyclopedia articles (such as the ones relative to the topics that you know.)
Forget about the grammatical structures themselves, and focus on what exactly you want to say instead.
You need to know how the Japanese say and use the language themselves. If you try to make your own sentences with your knowledge of vocabulary and grammar, you will come up with your own strange sentences that baffle the native speakers.
(eg. "it smells good".... a foreigner might say "香ばしく嗅いでいる" when in fact it is usually said as "いい匂いがする"