歌舞伎町 ヤバさの真相

[Elizabeth]

The title of a new 溝口 book, "Kabukicho―Yabasa no Shinso" (Kabukicho―The Truth of Its Dangerousness). My first thought at the English was odd things that lose in translation.
The difference between dangerousness and danger in the nominative case as I see it is that the former speaks to a quality or level of vulnerability/not being safe while 'danger' is the source of threat itself or exposure to a harmful situation.

So since they're basically interchangable but in English we talk of "Real truth of it's Dangers/Risks/Perils" and "The Truth of its Dangerousness" sounds more like criminal law texbook than anything a normal person want to run out and grab, it really would be very, very odd. Most Americans are probably not even positive that dangerousness is a valid word. The communication is transferred starkly but there is no emotion or cultural understanding behind it.

And because finding equivalents that work best in a given context is of course the essence of good translation, after that shock wore off, it made me wonder....are there any particularly critical differences in the choice of ヤブさ as opposed to much more common 危険性、あぶなさ、etc ? Does ヤバさ restore a colorfulness or even sensationalism for a naming that would otherwise feel rather cold and distant? Objectively it's a decision for those who really know the market--the editor and the author. I'm not contesting that, only asking about the connotations language-wise.




【レビュー・書評】歌舞伎町・ヤバさの真相 [著]溝口敦 - 新書の小径 - ＢＯＯＫ：asahi.com（朝日新聞社）

 

[GreenCat]

The title of a new 溝口 book, "Kabukicho―Yabasa no Shinso" (Kabukicho―The Truth of Its Dangerousness). My first thought at the English was odd things that lose in translation.
The difference between dangerousness and danger in the nominative case as I see it is that the former speaks to a quality or level of vulnerability/not being safe while 'danger' is the source of threat itself or exposure to a harmful situation.

So since they're basically interchangable but in English we talk of "Real truth of it's Dangers/Risks/Perils" and "The Truth of its Dangerousness" sounds more like criminal law texbook than anything a normal person want to run out and grab, it really would be very, very odd. Most Americans are probably not even positive that dangerousness is a valid word. The communication is transferred starkly but there is no emotion or cultural understanding behind it.

And because finding equivalents that work best in a given context is of course the essence of good translation, after that shock wore off, it made me wonder....are there any particularly critical differences in the choice of ヤブさ as opposed to much more common 危険性、あぶなさ、etc ? Does ヤバさ restore a colorfulness or even sensationalism for a naming that would otherwise feel rather cold and distant? Objectively it's a decision for those who really know the market--the editor and the author. I'm not contesting that, only asking about the connotations language-wise.




Does ヤバさ restore a colorfulness or even sensationalism for a naming that would otherwise feel rather cold and distant?
You are exactly right

Not the sort of things I would like to translate as it is pretty hard

Anyway, the expression "ヤバさ" is like a kaleidoscope in the way it is perceived because it can mean both positive and negative. This expression "ヤバさ"is a lot of things!!!

Let us see how the word is used in efferent forms:
ヤバすぎるぜ。俺たちずっとかっぱなしだ。
Emphasise unusualness or extremity of state or being

あいつヤバイよ、凄すぎ。
Same as above

あっちは色々ヤバイぜ、稼げるけどな。
Describing liveliness, dangerousness and unusualness(chaotic but well fun and locative)

あいつのヤバさこんなもんじゃないぜ。
(Probably we see something like this in Managa)
Referring to capabilities or potential, degree of being different or special

あいつはヤバイやつだ、手は出すな。
Dangerousness

Excuse me for vulgar examples but the word itself is pretty vulgar.

So "ヤバイ歌舞伎町" or "歌舞伎町はヤバイ", I think mean otherworldly, lively, chaotic, special, colourfulness, gayness(in the meaning of slightly being repulsive, attractive and carefree) or maybe even more of things

So meaning of "ヤバさ" probably is partially dependent on the perceived meaning of a word it is used with like "very" or "sheer"

How would I translate?
I am never in position or like capable of translating the statement but hmm, Kabukityou-Its chaos and extremity!!!

 

[Toritoribe]

As far as reading the review Elizabeth-san linked to, the author/editor seems to use this ﾆ停?榿弛窶堋ｳ as the original meaning; dangerousness.

Does ヤバさ restore a colorfulness or even sensationalism for a naming that would otherwise feel rather cold and distant?

And I agree here, too. ヤバい is originally a slang, so the nuance of colorfulness/sensationalism might be from that.

やばい - 語源由来辞典

やばい

【意味】 やばいとは、あぶない。不都合な状況が予想されるさま。ヤバい。

【やばいの語源・由来】
やばいは、「具合の悪いさま」「不都合」を意味する形容動詞「やば」を形容詞化した語で、もとは盗人や香具師などの隠語であった。
戦前、囚人が看守を「やば」と呼んだことを語源とする説もあるが、「やば」は江戸後期には既に使われているため、形容詞化の由来としては考慮できるが、「やば」の語源としては誤りで、「彌危ない（いやあぶない）」「あやぶい」と同じ語系と考えられる。
その他、「夜這い」が転じ、「やばい」になったとする説もあるが、民間語源説である。
1980年代頃から若者言葉で「やばい」が「格好悪い」の意味として用いられ、90年代から「凄い」の意味が派生し、肯定・否定問わず「やばい」が用いられるようになった。

 

[Elizabeth]

The title of a new 溝口 book, "Kabukicho―Yabasa no Shinso" (Kabukicho―The Truth of Its Dangerousness). My first thought at the English was odd things that lose in translation.
The difference between dangerousness and danger in the nominative case as I see it is that the former speaks to a quality or level of vulnerability/not being safe while 'danger' is the source of threat itself or exposure to a harmful situation.

So since they're basically interchangable but in English we talk of "Real truth of it's Dangers/Risks/Perils" and "The Truth of its Dangerousness" sounds more like criminal law texbook than anything a normal person want to run out and grab, it really would be very, very odd. Most Americans are probably not even positive that dangerousness is a valid word. The communication is transferred starkly but there is no emotion or cultural understanding behind it.

And because finding equivalents that work best in a given context is of course the essence of good translation, after that shock wore off, it made me wonder....are there any particularly critical differences in the choice of ヤブさ as opposed to much more common 危険性、あぶなさ、etc ? Does ヤバさ restore a colorfulness or even sensationalism for a naming that would otherwise feel rather cold and distant? Objectively it's a decision for those who really know the market--the editor and the author. I'm not contesting that, only asking about the connotations language-wise.




Does ヤバさ restore a colorfulness or even sensationalism for a naming that would otherwise feel rather cold and distant?
You are exactly right

Not the sort of things I would like to translate as it is pretty hard

Anyway, the expression "ヤバさ" is like a kaleidoscope in the way it is perceived because it can mean both positive and negative. This expression "ヤバさ"is a lot of things!!!

Let us see how the word is used in efferent forms:
ヤバすぎるぜ。俺たちずっとかっぱなしだ。
Emphasise unusualness or extremity of state or being

あいつヤバイよ、凄すぎ。
Same as above

あっちは色々ヤバイぜ、稼げるけどな。
Describing liveliness, dangerousness and unusualness(chaotic but well fun and locative)

あいつのヤバさこんなもんじゃないぜ。
(Probably we see something like this in Managa)
Referring to capabilities or potential, degree of being different or special

あいつはヤバイやつだ、手は出すな。
Dangerousness

Excuse me for vulgar examples but the word itself is pretty vulgar.

So "ヤバイ歌舞伎町" or "歌舞伎町はヤバイ", I think mean otherworldly, lively, chaotic, special, colourfulness, gayness(in the meaning of slightly being repulsive, attractive and carefree) or maybe even more of things

So meaning of "ヤバさ" probably is partially dependent on the perceived meaning of a word it is used with like "very" or "sheer"

How would I translate?
I am never in position or like capable of translating the statement but hmm, Kabukityou-Its chaos and extremity!!!

Hmmm.....So what I get is that yabai can be used for moments or danger or when something is truly unbelieveable (beyond joyous to terribly inconvenient/dangerous) but becomes true because it did occur -- kind of similar to sugoi with more passion ? :?

As far as reading the review Elizabeth-san linked to, the author/editor seems to use this ヤバさ as the original meaning; dangerousness.

Very true. But sooooo "katai" !!! Too embarrassing to even say in polite company ! (Although for "Real truth of its dangerousness" would a little less resistant than "truth" alone...for some reason, bringing the reader back to the American mobster-filled feeling of a "noir/true crime" genre ??

 

[Toritoribe]

Hmmm.....So what I get is that yabai can be used for moments or danger or when something is truly unbelieveable (beyond joyous to terribly inconvenient/dangerous) but becomes true because it did occur -- kind of similar to sugoi with more passion ? :?

Right. Young people use ヤバい as すごい. I was surprised that some dictionaries already have this meaning.:bikkuri:

若者は「最高である」「すごくいい」の意にも使う。「この料理―・いよ」

サービス終了のお知らせ

［3］ 若者言葉で、すごい。自身の心情が、ひどく揺さぶられている様子についていう。

・ この曲、―・いよ
〔補説〕 若者言葉では「格好良い」を意味する肯定的な文脈から、「困った」を意味する否定的文脈まで、広く感動詞的に用いられる

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1980年代頃から若者言葉で「やばい」が「格好悪い」の意味として用いられるようになり、90年代から「凄い」の意味が派生し、肯定・否定問わず「やばい」が用いられるようになった。

ヤバい／やばい - 語源由来辞典

 

[GreenCat]

Agree with Toritoribe

If I am to add something, "ヤバい" (Warning!! I might be wrong because it is not like I know everyone living in Japan and I live in a rural part) is probably more often used in fictions for stronger emphasis rather than in everyday life, action movie or gangster movie is full of colourful languages but I doubt all Americans speak like the actors do in those movie.

The word is relatively vulgar yet!! Not maybe in coming decade or so though.