September 11th true or false?

[centrajapan]

Did cell phones work at 30,000 feet in 2001? How many hijackings were attempted? How many flights were diverted?

Demolition Hypothesis

What caused the collapse of a third skyscraper, WTC 7, which was not hit by a plane? Were the Twin Towers and WTC 7 brought down by explosives?


What did officials know? How did they know it?

Multiple allied foreign agencies informed the US government of a coming attack in detail, including the manner and likely targets of the attack, the name of the operation (the "Big Wedding"), and the names of certain men later identified as being among the perpetrators.

Various individuals came into possession of specific advance knowledge, and some of them tried to warn the US prior to September 11th.

Certain prominent persons received warnings not to fly on the week or on the day of September 11th.

Able Danger, Plus - Surveillance of Alleged Hijackers
a. The men identified as the 9/11 ringleaders were under surveillance for years beforehand, on the suspicion they were terrorists, by a variety of US and allied authorities - including the CIA, the US military''s "Able Danger" program, the German authorities, Israeli intelligence and others.
b. Two of the alleged ringleaders who were known to be under surveillance by the CIA also lived with an FBI asset in San Diego, but this is supposed to be yet another a coincidence.

Obstruction of FBI Investigations prior to 9/11

A group of FBI officials in New York systematically suppressed field investigations of potential terrorists that might have uncovered the alleged hijackers - as the Moussaoui case once again showed. The stories of Sibel Edmonds, Robert Wright, Coleen Rowley and Harry Samit, the "Phoenix Memo," David Schippers, the 199i orders restricting investigations, the Bush administration''s order to back off the Bin Ladin family, the reaction to the "Bojinka" plot, and John O''Neil do not, when considered in sum, indicate mere incompetence, but high-level corruption and protection of criminal networks, including the network of the alleged 9/11 conspirators. (Nearly all of these examples were omitted from or relegated to fleeting footnotes in The 9/11 Commission Report.)

Insider Trading
a. Unknown speculators allegedly used foreknowledge of the Sept. 11th events to profiteer on many markets internationally - including but not limited to "put options" placed to short-sell the two airlines, WTC tenants, and WTC re-insurance companies in Chicago and London.
b. In addition, suspicious monetary transactions worth hundreds of millions were conducted through offices at the Twin Towers during the actual attacks.
c. Initial reports on these trades were suppressed and forgotten, and only years later did the 9/11 Commission and SEC provide a partial, but untenable explanation for only a small number of transactions (covering only the airline put options through the Chicag

THE TOP 40 Reasons to Doubt the Official Story

 

[centrajapan]

Former U.S. Army Air Defense Officer and NORAD Tac Director, decorated with the Purple Heart, the Bronze Star and the Soldiers Medal stated that "there is no way that an aircraft . . . would not be intercepted when they deviate from their flight plan, turn off their transponders, or stop communication with Air Traffic Control ... Attempts to obscure facts by calling them a 'conspiracy Theory' does not change the truth. It seems, 'Something is rotten in the State.'"

Patriots Question 9/11 - Responsible Criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report

Former 20-year Marine Corps infantry and intelligence officer, the second-ranking civilian in U.S. Marine Corps Intelligence, and former CIA clandestine services case officer stated that "9/11 was at a minimum allowed to happen as a pretext for war", and it was probably an inside job.

Robert David Steele - Wikipedia
911proof.com

Former high-ranking Reagan official and very influential conservative doubts the official story about 9/11

Polls show that 36% of Americans do not believe the official story. Setting aside the 25% of the public that is so uninformed or uninvolved as to believe that Saddam Hussein was responsible for the 9/11 attack, leaves 39% of the public who believe the official story. However, this 39% is essentially relying on the mainstream media's endorsement of the official story. Griffin believes, perhaps naively, that truth can prevail, and it is his commitment to truth that has motivated him to shoulder the enormous task.

http://vdare.com/roberts/070326_evidence.htm

New Yorker Article 8/12/02: "Musharraf told me that he was still unconvinced that bin Laden was the main figure in the attacks. "I didn't think it possible that Osama sitting up there in the mountains could do it," he said. "He was perhaps the sponsor, the financier, the motivating force. But those who executed it were much more modern. They knew the U.S., they knew aviation. I don't think he has the intelligence or the minute planning. The planner was someone else.

General Mirza Aslam Beg – Former Chief of Staff of the Pakistani Army.

"Many of us in this region believe that Osama or his al-Qaeda were not responsible for 11 September attacks in New York and Washington, yet the coalition led by United States is busy on 'Afghan bashing,' chasing objectives, which go much beyond Osama bin Laden. The information which is now coming up, goes to prove that involvement by the 'rogue elements' of the U.S. military and intelligence organization is getting more obvious. Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda definitely do not have the knowhow and the capability to launch such operations involving such high precision coordination, based on information and expertise.

Patriots Question 9/11 - Responsible Criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report

I think when you look at this country, right now, we need a 2-party system that works. We need Congress to do its job. We need real investigation of some of the abuses of authority that are apparently going on at the Executive branch. ... We've never finished the investigation of 9/11 and whether the administration actually misused the intelligence information it had. The evidence seems pretty clear to me. I've seen that for a long time.

General Wesley Clark, U.S. Army (ret) – Former Commanding General of U.S. European Command, which included all American military activities in the 89 countries and territories of Europe, Africa, and the Middle East. Additionally, Supreme Allied Commander Europe (SACEUR), which granted him overall command of NATO military forces in Europe 1997 - 2001. Awarded Bronze Star, Silver Star, and Purple Heart for his service in Viet Nam and numerous subsequent medals and citations. Graduated valedictorian of his class at West Point.

 

[Goldiegirl]

It's good when you can't have a thought of your own, but can only post the thoughts of others. I'd like to something original not just regurgitated words.....

 

[centrajapan]

I am still waiting for the source to back up the clamis from the Japanese American architect. I'd really like to see it.

When you are called this and that it is good to know that I am not alone. Infact many world leaders, millitary leaders, scientists just say that this is just impossible. Musharaff who is an US allie in Pakistan don't believe the official story. Here is USA's man in Pakistan waging war against the terrorists. Side by side by US and he doesn't believe itwas bin Laden. What does that say? The president of Pakistan does not believe Bush? Whats going on?

I personally am very happy to hear General Wesley Clark, U.S. Army and other American millitary leaders aswell as former advisors in the Reagen administration. They are not liberals but concervatives just shake their head in disbelief and say.

The official story just does not add up.

 

[Sarapva]

The Bush administration wasn't the only ones who cut corners. The Clinton administration did too. There were several key people pardoned, dropped off the list, and the like who were real threats to this country by Clinton. The Clinton administration also did their fair share of ignoring threats as well. The blame game goes around full circle starting back since the Cold War. I'm surprised that you think only now it all started with Bush. Oh how wrong you are. The problem lies much deeper than you think. This is something that will haunt the world for years to come, given that the world is still around in fifty years.
-Doc

That's probably true - there has been corruption in our government for a long time. I don't think we'll know one way or the other about whether 9/11 was an "inside job" or not, but something's not right when known terrorists get past all hurdles, even through airport security when their names are flashing on computer screens as being a threat (the only decision about this was to check their luggage before putting it on the planes).

 

[Goldiegirl]

You seem to be able to work the Internet very well....I gave you all the tools you need to do some more research. I won't do the work for you.

 

[centrajapan]

Loose change.

http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=7866929448192753501

To understand 9-11. We should study the various events prior to the attacks aswell as each incident very carefully. bin Laden was aparently getting treatment in an American hospital after 1998 in Dubai. 1998 was when bin Laden officially got on the wanted list. Most people be it Americans and non Americans were so numbed that they stopped asking quesions.

This web page is good place to start.

THE TOP 40 Reasons to Doubt the Official Story

The hole in Pentagon is so small. A Boeing 767 jet just evaporates like that? A building collapses without getting hit by a jet? Thats the conspiracy theory.

 

[Mycernius]

It's good when you can't have a thought of your own, but can only post the thoughts of others. I'd like to something original not just regurgitated words.....

Once his type get a silly idea in their head you cannot shift it, no matter how much info and links and reference material you give him. Bad as YE creationists. No matter the overwealming evidence against they perfer to use the weaker evidence for, despite is shaky science/references/the man nexts door wifes cousin sister said.

 

[centrajapan]

You haven´t given any links and just called them silly and paranoid and anti American. Maybe you are the one who should do some more research to it?

according to a poll by the New York Times and CBS News. 53 per cent of respondents think the Bush administration is hiding something, and 28 per cent believe it is lying.

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/view/13469

Thats over 50%. I guess those people are all pchycotic anti Americans then. And it is not only the next door´s wife or whatever. There are many high ranking officials both in US and outside of US who says the official 911 story does not add up. People in CIA, FBI, the millitary aswell as presidents and prime ministers.

Former minister of national defense in Canada Paul Hellier thinks it is hoax too.

http://www.septembereleventh.org/kc/multimedia/movies/Hellyer.mov

Another theory is that US let it happen to be able to wage a war on terrorism. Just think about it. Had it not been for 911 then US would not have waged war on Afghanistan or Iraq.

 

[Haruspex]

You haven´t given any links and just called them silly and paranoid and anti American. Maybe you are the one who should do some more research to it?

Honestly, we all know that the American government ain't flawless, but there's a limit to suspicions. Conspiracies are interesting, they move your brain, but you see, something that sounds ridiculously dumb is usually ridiculously dumb in real life, this is the same. Some dirty things might happen, corruption exists, but some cannot.
You label pro-America sources liars and manipulators... why? I want proof NOW, not proof about the WTC events, I want proof that the P-A sources are lying, please confirm that their information is wrong, that they're paid by the government behind locked doors, that they're accepting bribes from senators. If you can't, you have no right to label those sources anything.
Suspicion does not equal proof, unless someone is proven guilty, he is innocent.

 

[centrajapan]

A state of war only serves as an excuse for domestic tyranny

.

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

False flag operations are not anything new.

The Operation Ajax was the code name of an operation lead by CIA and MI6 in the 1950s. The background for this was because Mossadeq who was the democratic elected president in Iran went on to nationalise the oil and denied Brittish Petrolium to enter the market. So US,UK carried out terrorism and blamed it on Mossadeq. They bombed the home of a religious leader, bombed mosques, shot into crowds with machine guns and blamed it on Mossadeq. They gave out propganda material and leaf lets stating things such as down with Allah up with communism when the truth of the matter was Mossadeq was not a communist.

Mossadeq was then over thrown and a new government took place in Iran. And the CIA then went on a trained the secret police Savak in Iran.

All this was done to secure Iran's oil wells.

Operation Gladio was a NATO operation carried from the 40s up until the 80s. IN western Europe, Middle East, Latin America. What they did was bombed civilians, buses, trains and blamed it on leftists and communists. Italian presidensts have admited to be apart of Operation Gladio and in the 90s. The EU came with a resolution condemning Opration Gladio.

This is declassified information. Western governments bombed trains, buses, civilains and blamed it on leftists and communists.

Gulf of Tonkin in Vietnam was a fabricated story where US said American boats were fired eventhough the truth of the matter is that they wern't being fired by Vietnamese boats. They used this lie as a pretext to enter the Vietnam war.

In 1976. A CIA agent planted a bomb on a Cuban commercial airliner killing all the passegers on board but did not take responibility of it until many years later.

BBC NEWS | Americas | Cuba 'plane bomber' was CIA agent

Here are just a few examples of false flag operations carried out by USA.

 

[centrajapan]

You label pro-America sources liars and manipulators... why?

You should not think pro or anti American. There are both Americans non Americans liberals and concervatives who don't buy the story of the Bush administration.

I am glad it has sparked your interest. I think it is quite interesting to read books and watch movies on this matter. You have the FEMA report. The official Bush administration report which people are questioning. I want proof too. I think US should have an independent investigation. A hearing. How much did the Bush administration know? If there is suspicion wouldit not be better to get rid off the suspicion by going public and have a hearing?

Just prior to the attacks the stock markets was behaving very strange.

Unknown speculators allegedly used foreknowledge of the Sept. 11th events to profiteer on many markets internationally - including but not limited to "put options" placed to short-sell the two airlines, WTC tenants, and WTC re-insurance companies in Chicago and London.

Mystery speculator bets on disaster: Who's sure enough to gamble $4.5 billion on Stock Market taking 40% nosedive?

inteldaily.com - Registered at Namecheap.com

Common sense says that there were people who know what was going to happen and they made alot of money from it.

 

[scorpion da black]

seriously the information centrajapan is providing make a lot of sense..and make you think!!

take that seriously ..i am not saying this as a biased person..
just read the information as an observing peer and judge

 

[centrajapan]

Thank scorpion da black.

 

[scorpion da black]

i was being honest no need to thank me

i am reading and reading and still cant finish..that is one marvelous argument you have there...all the links you provide are so rich...neat work..keep doing your best centrajapan san

 

[Haruspex]

Ok, now, I don't believe that the government did all that.. but lets say they did it.
Now lets imagine the information surfaces, it leaks somehow, people find out about it.
Imagine the chaos, imagine millions of people wreaking havoc all around, the unrest, it would turn into a bloody rebellion. Now lets decide, do we want a rebellion?
People even believe in hypothetical information such as this, some are howling for blood even without facts, not everyone can discuss it on forums in a civil manner. Let us admit, there are loads of idiots out there who only need an excuse to go and destroy, and this, this would be a great excuse for them.
I say: Obscure minds must be kept obscure for their own good.
Whether this is true or not (I still say its false), it shouldn't spread too much.

 

[karlyboo]

seriously the information centrajapan is providing make a lot of sense..and make you think!!

take that seriously ..i am not saying this as a biased person..
just read the information as an observing peer and judge

And for those of us who can think for ourselves we'll make up our own minds, cheers.

Until he addresses the thirty-odd points I made, Centra is just posting baseless theory as far as I can see. He still has yet to explain to me why the Americans started a war for control of a pipeline which has not been built and who's construction has in fact been delayed by the war (amongst other things he hasn't explained).

Or alternatively, let's hear it for factless anti-Americanism based on internet articles written by unqualified hacks who usually write for Health magazines! Yay! If only Dimitree were still around, this complete lack of analytical reasoning was really his forte.

 

[centrajapan]

And for those of us who can think for ourselves we'll make up our own minds, cheers.

Until he addresses the thirty-odd points I made, Centra is just posting baseless theory as far as I can see. He still has yet to explain to me why the Americans started a war for control of a pipeline which has not been built and who's construction has in fact been delayed by the war (amongst other things he hasn't explained).

I already gave you the BBC link for the pipeline. Cheers. For those who can think of ourselves. Your flaw is that you only believe the coorporate media therefore you are not thinking for yourself. Dig in a bit deeper. Read not only BBC, CNN, FOX, Al Jazeera but Indian, Pakistani press too.

I already gave you 130 odd points which you haven't answered. Think for yourself indeed.

 

[Haruspex]

And for those of us who can think for ourselves we'll make up our own minds, cheers.
Until he addresses the thirty-odd points I made, Centra is just posting baseless theory as far as I can see. He still has yet to explain to me why the Americans started a war for control of a pipeline which has not been built and who's construction has in fact been delayed by the war (amongst other things he hasn't explained).
Or alternatively, let's hear it for factless anti-Americanism based on internet articles written by unqualified hacks who usually write for Health magazines! Yay! If only Dimitree were still around, this complete lack of analytical reasoning was really his forte.

What? Are you talking bout these sites he always brings up?

Well why not? Aren't random sites the best? Maybe he does an "america crime" search on google and links all the sites on by one as the topic advances.

 

[sabro]

Karlyboo... don't let logic and facts interfere with this dicussion!

 

[centrajapan]

Lets turn the question around. On 9-11 Saudi Arab terrorists hijacked airplanes crashed into 2 buildings. 3 buildings collapsed. And another in Pentagon.

USA knew nothing about the events. It would have been impossible for US and the CIA, millitary intelligence to do anything about it and waged war on terrorism and invaded Afghanistan and then Iraq? To over throw Taliban and Saddam.

Think for yourself?

 

[Mycernius]

Stopping acts of terrorism isn't an easy thing to do. You might have some info saying that one is to take place, but you must find out where, when and how, and when dealing with terrorist that isn't exactly easy. If it was the UK wouldn't have suffered over 30 years of terrorist truobles from the IRA. The US couldn't even stop one of its own commiting the Oklahoma bombing. If you where now to commit an act of terrorism, either as a group of nutters of as an individual, how would the police/government stop you?
Instead of sitting behind a computer in your nice ideal world of hindsight try to view the problem with what it really entails. You are the one that should be thinking.

 

[karlyboo]

I already gave you the BBC link for the pipeline. Cheers. For those who can think of ourselves.

The link said exactly what was in Wikipedia- it was still being planned. It brought nothing new to the discussion: why was the war started for a hypothetical pipeline who's construction was delayed by the war anyway?

Your flaw is that you only believe the coorporate media therefore you are not thinking for yourself. Dig in a bit deeper. Read not only BBC, CNN, FOX, Al Jazeera but Indian, Pakistani press too.
I already gave you 130 odd points which you haven't answered. Think for yourself indeed.

I've answered every single one of your points in nauseating detail, one by one, and most of my ripostes have been ignored. Thanks, by the way, for deciding where I get my information from and what I believe (I wasn't aware you were a mind reader).

Let me guess, am I either brainwashed by them or am I in fact one of them?

 

[centrajapan]

The link said exactly what was in Wikipedia- it was still being planned. It brought nothing new to the discussion: why was the war started for a hypothetical pipeline who's construction was delayed by the war anyway?

As of 1992, 11 western oil companies controlled more than 50 percent of all oil investments in the Caspian Basin, including Unocal, Amoco, Atlantic Richfield, Chevron, Exxon-Mobil, Pennzoil, Texaco, Phillips and British Petroleum.

Centre for Research on Globalisation (CRG)

The reason why it is still planned is because Afghanistan is in turmoil. There needs to be stability in Afghanistan before one can start with the pipeline. Thats why there needs to be a pro western government in Afghanistan.

Here is a map of the various pipelines.

Oil - Central Asian Pipelines


Pakistan already has a pro western millitary dictatorship. Most countries around the Caspian sea already have a pro western dictatorship.

The Caspian Basin already is rich on natural resources. US and other western countries want to make sure to have control over these natural resources by privatizing the oil, gas fields as much as possible. The oil being in a land locked area needs to be transported in pipelines.

Let me guess, am I either brainwashed by them or am I in fact one of them?

Let me guess. You think US is waging a war on terrorism?

I've answered every single one of your points in nauseating detail, one by one, and most of my ripostes have been ignored. Thanks, by the way, for deciding where I get my information from and what I believe (I wasn't aware you were a mind reader).

I assume you have heard of the strange movements in the stock markets prior to the attacks.

Put" options on Morgan Stanley and Merrill Lynch, two of the World Trade Center's most prominent occupants, also spiked in the days before 9-11. The 9-11 Investigation Committee made no attempt to pursue this highly sensitive matter.

inteldaily.com - Registered at Namecheap.com

Financial transactions in the days before the attack suggest that certain individuals used foreknowledge of the attack to reap huge profits. The evidence of insider trading includes:

Huge surges in purchases of put options on stocks of the two airlines used in the attack -- United Airlines and American Airlines
Surges in purchases of put options on stocks of reinsurance companies expected to pay out billions to cover losses from the attack -- Munich Re and the AXA Group
Surges in purchases of put options on stocks of financial services companies hurt by the attack -- Merrill Lynch & Co., and Morgan Stanley and Bank of America

9-11 Research: Insider Trading

The stratnge movements in the stock market has not been investigated.

 

[centrajapan]

Stopping acts of terrorism isn't an easy thing to do. You might have some info saying that one is to take place, but you must find out where, when and how, and when dealing with terrorist that isn't exactly easy. If it was the UK wouldn't have suffered over 30 years of terrorist truobles from the IRA. The US couldn't even stop one of its own commiting the Oklahoma bombing. If you where now to commit an act of terrorism, either as a group of nutters of as an individual, how would the police/government stop you?
Instead of sitting behind a computer in your nice ideal world of hindsight try to view the problem with what it really entails. You are the one that should be thinking.

It is well documented that the officials topping the chain of command for response to a domestic attack - George W. Bush, Donald Rumsfeld, Richard Myers, Montague Winfield - all found reason to do something else during the actual attacks, rather than assume their duties as decision-makers.

It is standard procedure to respond to commercial airliners who has diverted. On 9-11 the US air defense system failed completely. The year before US responded 67 times to airliner diverting. On 9/11 mothing. The various agencies, the Pentagon, the US Air Force, as well as the 9/11 Commission have given different explanations to why the defense system failed that day.

After the attacks while no airplanes could fly in or out of US the bin Laden family was flown out of US.

Despite having responded successfully on 67 occasions during the preceding year, the US air defense system failed to follow standard procedures for responding to diverted passenger flights four times on the morning of 9/11.

http://911curious.org/questions.cfm

Here are other pilots who question 9-11.

Patriots Question 9/11 - Responsible Criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report

"I flew the two actual aircraft which were involved in 9/11; the Fight number 175 and Flight 93, the 757 that allegedly went down in Shanksville and Flight 175 is the aircraft that's alleged to have hit the South Tower. I don't believe it's possible for, like I said, for a terrorist, a so-called terrorist to train on a [Cessna] 172, then jump in a cockpit of a 757-767 class cockpit, and vertical navigate the aircraft, lateral navigate the aircraft, and fly the airplane at speeds exceeding it's design limit speed by well over 100 knots, make high-speed high-banked turns, exceeding -- pulling probably 5, 6, 7 G's. And the aircraft would literally fall out of the sky. I couldn't do it and I'm absolutely positive they couldn't do it

Capt. Russ Wittenberg, U.S. Air Force – Retired commercial pilot.