USA the biggest threat to world peace.

[Haruspex]

The facts don't change, only how you answer your "Why?" questions. It is quite sad i agree, but thats how things are. And the events in Israel are an abnormality if you view it as a member of a certain group, but it looks so calm and obvious and normal when you just attempt to fly outside of your skin, just view it all from above, as the sole specie of your own individual race, say the "scorpion da black" race or the "derfel" race or whatever, with no bonds, no relatives, no connection at all. Yes you maybe feel some sadness, but it all becomes obvious, and you immediately see the reasons you wouldn't otherwise. Try it that way, it is not any less sad, but perhaps its worth a try to give a shot at this view too.

 

[scorpion da black]

when humans loose their bonds they loose their humanity..
we are social creatures, we cant break free from our binds.

 

[Pachipro]

If Not The US Then Someone Else Will Be

Is anyone here representing their government or their governments views? If not then please keep the insults private. There are plenty of other forums for that.

Quite correct in that, but Saudi Arabia is a big trading partner with the US and the Bin Laden Family are business friends with the Bush family.

And it was Bin Laden's family who were given air transport out of the US a day or two after 911 when no planes were "allowed" to fly.

Face it the war in Afghanistan and Iraq are all about money and power.

And do not forget about oil (and pipelines across Afghanistan which the Taliban opposed) for which Iraq has the second largest supply, and drugs (which also =money and power), particularly opium.

The Taliban had succeeded in eradicating the poppy farms and that took billions of dollars out the world economy and "someone's" hands. After the invasion of Afghanistan, the poppy fields again flourished and they are now, again, the biggest exporter of opium (which is used in heroin) in the world. Much of it destined for the streets of the US and Europe. Why was this allowed to happen? Look at who profits.

History lesson:

Throught history the ruling nations of the world have profited from addictive substances like sugar, tobacco, coffee, opium, alcohol etc. and today they clandestinely profit from the same today.

In 1560 Charles V of Spain built vast palaces using taxes on sugar trade.

In fact in 1660, the British found sugar "pushing" so profitable that it became a matter of national security. They passed the British Navagation Act of 1660 to prevent the transport of sugar, tobacco, or any product of the American Colonies to any port outside England, Ireland, and the British posessions. In 1662 Britain was importing 16 million pounds of sugar per year. Shortly afterwards humans started to suffer from diabeties which was an unkown disease until then.

It was also the most important export for Germany, France and Holland. They all profited from it while their people became sick and addicted to it.

In 1665 London was swept by the Bubonic plague and it was noticed that that the people who lived without sugar escaped harm when over 68,000 died. Hmmmmm.

In 1773 The Molasses Act of 1773 (same link as above) was passed by Britain putting a heavy tax on sugar and molasses coming from anywhere except the British sugar islands in the Caribbean. Sugar was also essential for the production of rum (alcohol), to which a significant percentage of humans were already addicted. Tobacco (nicotine) also began to gain more significance in world use at this time. Need I go into how Britain pushed and exported opium to China and other countries and profited vastly from it?

Therefore, it is to the great benefit of nations to have their people and others addicted to something whether it be alcohol, sugar, nicotine, opium, etc. Trade in these drugs is very profitable for them. On the one hand they tell us how bad it is for us, yet it is never fully prevented from happening or strict laws passed as any government can stop it if they really wanted to. Just as the US could stop the terrorists in Iraq if they really wanted to. After all, the US has the greatest technology and military the world has ever seen and yet they still cannot subdue some terrorists with absolutely no technology? Give me a freakin break! If the Bible is any indication then maybe David (the terrorists with no military or technology) will defeat Goliath (the US) as they seem to be doing.

So, is the US really the major threat to world peace? Not really, but it is they who have the strongest military right now so it is easy for one to say so. If it wasn't the US today, it would be some other country threatening world peace as, as has been going on for centuries, there will always be another force or country to step in and attempt to control the world. It's just the way of the world and it will never change. Ever!

Basically, the Earth is a morally corrupt and violent planet. It always has been and always will be and those that rule it (the fallen angels referred to in the Bible) will be here forever fighting among themselves for control as they have for millennia.

We pass through this plane of existance to learn and experience life on the physical plane (basically a kind of hell). If we succumb and our souls are corrupted by even one of the "seven deadly sins" (Lust, Gluttony, Greed, Sloth [laziness], Wrath [anger], Envy, and Pride) we are doomed to return again and again until we eventually do learn to overcome them. Only then can we move up to a higher plane of existance.

Therefore, do not be ruled by your so-called leaders, but do and act as you feel in your own heart as there will forever be a major threat to peace on this planet. It's just the way it is.

 

[Haruspex]

when humans loose their bonds they loose their humanity..
we are social creatures, we cant break free from our binds.

Yes we can, I personally don't view myself Armenian or Hungarian unless someone views me as one, and talks to me as one. To me, both of these races are primarily people, I don't really care which race they belong to. Same for everyone else, they're individuals, a single of their kind, before they're representatives of a nation in my eyes.

 

[Skullcrushergurl]

Geez. I wouldn't go as far as to say America is the biggest threat to world peace!!
FACE IT: THERE WILL NEVER REALLY BE WORLD PEACE.
And secondly it isn't America--It's Bush. When Clinton was in office it wasn't so bad. Now every other country hates us. Just relax. THE ONLY THING STOPPING PEACE BETTWEEN AMERICA AND ANY OTHER COUNTRY IS GEORGE W. BUSH!!
No matter what, countries will always fight over land, food, even oxygen AND ESPECIALLY RELIGION AND CULTURE!!

 

[Haruspex]

Yeah, imagine life as a True Metal song and you're quite near, except for the different weaponry lol

 

[centrajapan]

I disagree that it is impossible to have world peace. Despite the world problems we have today I believe the world is less barbaric today than it was just 50 years ago or 500 years ago.

Each country has laws and regulations but the world we live in does not. Its pretty much anarchy, the survival of the fittest. Hopefully by time we will have laws and regulations and countries will start to respect them.

As small kids we used to fight but msot people grow out of it at a certain age. It should be the same with countries. We learn not to start killing each other over disagreements. Why should it be any different with countries and governments?

 

[RegDunlap]

skgirls wrote;

And secondly it isn't America--It's Bush. When Clinton was in office it wasn't so bad. Now every other country hates us.

You are joking, right?

Have you forgotten what happened on Clinton's watch?

Bosnia
Kosovo
Rwandan genocide
Bombing Sudan
Somalia fiasco
Bombing Iraq

Have I forgotten any?

 

[Sarapva]

We pass through this plane of existance to learn and experience life on the physical plane (basically a kind of hell). If we succumb and our souls are corrupted by even one of the "seven deadly sins" (Lust, Gluttony, Greed, Sloth [laziness], Wrath [anger], Envy, and Pride) we are doomed to return again and again until we eventually do learn to overcome them. Only then can we move up to a higher plane of existance.

This would have been a useful argument on the "Ghost Stories" thread! I agree that the physical life is the hard one where we have to navigate through a perpetual "war" in one form or another. But I'm hanging on to the hope that it's possible one day to have world peace. It's a good idea that we as individuals do what we feel is right and not always listen to what our governments tell us.

Originally quoted by centrajapan:

I disagree that it is impossible to have world peace. Despite the world problems we have today I believe the world is less barbaric today than it was just 50 years ago or 500 years ago.

Each country has laws and regulations but the world we live in does not. Its pretty much anarchy, the survival of the fittest. Hopefully by time we will have laws and regulations and countries will start to respect them.

As small kids we used to fight but msot people grow out of it at a certain age. It should be the same with countries. We learn not to start killing each other over disagreements. Why should it be any different with countries and governments?

I agree with everything you said here, centrajapan. When I was a kid there were about 6 of us who played together in the neighborhood, and at one time we created "sides" (where there were 3 against the other 3). After a few weeks of being on one side or the other, we decided that having sides didn't really work and that it was better to all be on the same side. We decided that at 10 years old - you'd think governments could also see that!

 

[scorpion da black]

Yes we can, I personally don't view myself Armenian or Hungarian unless someone views me as one, and talks to me as one. To me, both of these races are primarily people, I don't really care which race they belong to. Same for everyone else, they're individuals, a single of their kind, before they're representatives of a nation in my eyes.

you just say that...
lets say some forign country invaded hungary , and they happened to be more inlighted and more righteous, would you side with them??
"""""no"""" you will side with your pack...

dont try to convince your self other wise.

 

[Haruspex]

I would side with the party that offers better overall welfare for the country. The EU is very similar, you take on more, way more responsibilities, boundaries but in return, you receive better commonwealth. I say yes to that, half-breeds like me fall into different groups, my sense of national identity had been grinded up, what good does nationality do me except for offering a colourful world of traditions and a few unique traits? Nothing, radical patriotism is an anachronism that was necessary in the past, but not anymore.
As for world peace. I think a weird twisted form of world peace can be achieved, but as long as we're humans, we'll fight for earthly motives, and fight back for the same earthly, very very profane motives. You can't help it, only the means change, the type of warfare, but still, it remains warfare.

 

[scorpion da black]

that is a weird way to put it but i understand your point of view.
and it deserves second thought.
great reply Derfel

 

[bakaKanadajin]

Saying that the US is the biggest threat to world peace is like saying we should be afraid of the shadows on the wall instead of the hands that are making them. It doesn't matter what shape or form they come in, the money-lenders and ancient bloodlines that actually control global events are far more dangerous than any president or government.

 

[Hezam]

When I was a kid there were about 6 of us who played together in the neighborhood, and at one time we created "sides" (where there were 3 against the other 3). After a few weeks of being on one side or the other, we decided that having sides didn't really work and that it was better to all be on the same side. We decided that at 10 years old - you'd think governments could also see that!

what a great story !!!

If that right I can say you are great team ..

thanks Sarapva for the story ..it touch me a lot ...

 

[Sarapva]

what a great story !!!
If that right I can say you are great team ..
thanks Sarapva for the story ..it touch me a lot ...

Thank you, Carlos! When I look back on it now, I can see that as kids we had a small "society" in the neighborhood. We made rules that everyone had to go by - one that I remember was that no one could eat in front of anyone else unless everyone had some food. That was to keep from being envious and to make sure no one flaunted something in front of everyone else. I think governments could learn from us!!

 

[Haruspex]

Dunno, my childhood was a tad bit different.
In my first three years I was hated quite a bit, one time the brats in my class beaten me up.
Cool, that taught me a lesson:
-deeds => talk, threats
-brains => fairness
So what did I do? Yes exactly, I beat them up whenever they weren't together, other times when there was a bunch of them, I was cautious.

 

[Sarapva]

Dunno, my childhood was a tad bit different.
In my first three years I was hated quite a bit, one time the brats in my class beaten me up.

I also had my share of being bullied in school, but at home in the neighborhood it was different somehow.

 

[Mars Man]

I think governments could learn from us!!

This is exactly what I have been saying all along...even before, but also on that thread having to do with a compromise for the Middle East. It is also for this very reason, that I reason that we, as one among the many life forms that there are, will probably never be able to realize world peace.

On this thread, by 'peace' we mean that state wherein two or more animals exist and persist in the activity of a livelihood in such manner as to not willfully inflict physical harm on another from which harm such activity cannot be maintained.

You see this is the amplified concept of how we usually define peace. What most folks forget to include within the boundries over which the effort to apply the definition is the social groups themselves !!

You see, the boundries cover all the nation/political/cultra-religio groups, AND those groups as well !! That means both between and within any and all groups!! Even if all the various national groups had a maintained peace between all others, as defined above, they would have to have that state, as defined above, within their own borders too !! You see what I have been driving at? We have to apply this all the way down to the very, very bottom to really make it world peace. We have to go all the way down to personal relationships, domestic states, neighborhoods, villages, towns, and cities, regions, states, and countries--not to mention various social groups within all these.

When do you think we will have an international political/national state with a single government head (say the UN with much greater power due to the individual national governments relinquish of a great portion of sovernty) wherein we do not need a police/military branch of government?!! Really, now...think about it realistically folks.

It will never happen. For that reason, we will never have world peace, unless we want to define it differently--maybe like it's ok to have some social groups going around within a certain country killing, on occasion, those of opposing social groups within that country as long as there is no fighting between any two countries?

Or, maybe it's ok to have a particular country with a fairly high homocide rate, as long as that doesn't spill over into another country or cause that country into which the homocide tendency had spilt over into to wage war with that former particular country in order to protect the citizens on that second country?

No. World Peace will more likely than not, never happen, even if the homo sapien were to totally become extinct. This is nature. This is the bottom line. We have big brains and can really think about, even more than our primate relatives (who, by the way, have been shown to at least think about it a little, in some ways). I too really, really, REALLY wish it could, and in and with my life vitality have work towards such a goal, but after these years, and not afraid--all the while still working towards that goal--to admit that it will never happen. At least not in any fully (100%) internationally/intranationally way.

 

[Sarapva]

I think it's true that it has to start from the ground up, in families, and even within each individual. If we could learn to live with ourselves and our families harmoniously, I think there would be a chance at world peace, because then it would spill outward, throughout a social group, then the country, then maybe the world.

But yes, world peace would not be just governments being at peace, but the people getting along together on a small scale. How could we have world peace when young people are going into schools and malls and shooting other people and then themselves? It would actually be a revolution for each individual person to come to terms with himself, because if everyone did that, there would be world peace.

 

[包龙星]

Some people always say the extence of imperialism caused fighting and killing. But what caused the imperialism ? Maybe it is the imbalance of the power in the world.

Considering that Marxism and Communism were responsible for more than 100 MILLION deaths in the past century,I dont think the USA needs to apologize for very much.

My friend~ My major is phylosophy, I'm tackling several kinds of western wisdom,inclding Marxism. If you don't know much about a phylosophy,please don't draw a conclusion lightly. :genji:

 

[Haruspex]

While Marxism cannot be called guilty, it is responsible for couple of thousands of deaths, so are almost all of the social "philosophies".
But please let me quote Winston Churchill, as no one could have said it better:


"Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except all those others that have been tried from time to time."

Winston Churchill

 

[Hezam]

We made rules that everyone had to go by - one that I remember was that no one could eat in front of anyone else unless everyone had some food. That was to keep from being envious and to make sure no one flaunted something in front of everyone else.

me too ...i was like you ...these are called high ethics ...

I think governments could learn from us!!

i hope to see that...but the governments are different...

thanks alot

best wishes
Hezam

 

[centrajapan]

If USA stops bombing countries and wage wars the world will be more safe. I am not saying it will be perfect but more perfect than if US keeps bombing countries and ignoring international law.

USA refuses to renounce the first strike use of nuclear weapons. It won't commit to refraining from using nuclear weapons against non-nuclear weapon states.

USA refuses to sign a treaty to establish an international criminal court that could prosecute war crimes free from its interference.

USA refuses to sign a treaty banning land mines and cluster bombs.

Here are a few easy steps to make this world better than it is today.

 

[Hezam]

yes ..i think that's right ...i don't see any wrong ..

so i can agree with you dear centerjapan ...

and thanks ..

 

[Sarapva]

If USA stops bombing countries and wage wars the world will be more safe.

USA refuses to sign a treaty banning land mines and cluster bombs.

This is true - though there are Americans who have been trying to get land mines banned for a long time. We the American people don't want any bombing and killing.