USA the biggest threat to world peace.

[Haruspex]

Why? This is a fact. To be able to not repeat the same mistakes one should not forget the past. The tereatment of Indians and salves was an outright crime against humanity. No?
Most countries did not kill most of the native people and bring over slaves so I am not sure how much crueler than that you can get. US is giving arms to Israel so that they can keep on oppressing people. If you agree with racial discrimination than no, what US is doing is not wrong. If you don't agree with racial discrimination then what US is doing is wrong. So my dear friend Derfel. Do you support ethnic cleansing, racial discrimination? If yes, who is your favorite ethnic cleanser?
Jews can stay in Israel as long as they don't oppress non Jews.

No lets sum up your BS:

When did all that take place? That happened quite a time ago, you're starting ti brand the American nation as criminals now (I sense racism).
You BS day and night about the indians, but you forget about the cruelty of your own nation. “Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.” Now you have no right to throw stones left and right. Or perhaps you forgot about the murdered clericals and defiled monasteries? Thats your 2 in 1 pack, ethnic and religious cleansing.

Who is my favorite ethnic cleanser? I'll tell you, he's called INTERNATIONALISM. He will one day cleanse all nations without actually injuring someone.

 

[centrajapan]

Why are you stating facts as BS? Please look up the word ethnic cleansing because you seem not to be able to understand the meaning of the word.

You on one hand say why should not US support Israel because Israel is an ally of US but yet to fail to see that Israel is a racist country which practice severe discrimination. If most Americans support Israel does that mean that they are racist? Do you agree that US is fueling alot of ARab hatred by supporting Israel apartheid.

The reason why I mentioned the Indians and the slaves was because you said Americans are not cruel occupiers so I came with historic facts. Then you start to label me as a racist.

US has also in the past bombed no less than 20 countries. Over thrown democracies installed ruthless dictators. It makes you wonder. Do the average American support these atrocities? If not then why do they keep electing these kind of people?

US on 1998 bombed a pharmacy plant in Sudan and have yet given an apology.

In 1986 the International Court of Justice (The Hague) ruled that
the US was in violation of international law for "unlawful use of force" in
Nicaragua, through its actions and those of its Contra proxy army. The
US refused to recognize the Court's jurisdiction. A UN resolution calling
for compliance with the Court's decision was approved 94-2 (US and Israel
voting no).

Goldie Girl talking about how "we" don't bomb countries. I found her statement to be ironic beyond belief.

 

[Haruspex]

I did not say America is not cruel at all, I simply pointed out that America isn't the most cruel occupant, which is undeniable.
Please, bark when you have lost your country like Jewish people did. Was that not cruel? Did they deserve it? Do they have no right to their native land? Of course they do. When both sides are right at the same time, things get decided by the team game called War. Its that simply, and since Jewish forces are way more powerful, they're the winners of the game.
However cruel it may sound, the bombing of a pharmacy is nothing but a minor detail on a global scale.
Lol btw good joke, teaching someone of Armenian descent what ethnic cleansing is, funny boy.

 

[Goldiegirl]

We don't use suicide bombs strapped to our young people. We don't use car bombs. We don't bomb civilian airliners or use them as the bombs. I don't even own a bomb! If you think you can attack a country and not be attacked back, well then you surely have a problem. The past is not the present. I think the big difference is that here in the USA our law is not based on religion. We have a separation of church and state. Our laws aren't religious laws, that's why we can live more harmoniously in our country. The United States is not perfect, but at least we can strive for "our" each individual idea of perfection and not have to worry about retribution for being or not being the right religion, race, creed. And yes there are times when people are discriminated against, but the REAL difference is that it is NOT LEGAL or sanctioned. People here live in peace, or at least tolerance.

 

[Haruspex]

Yes yes, i think most people understand that, but for some dumb reason its a trend lately to be all "anti-American" with no reason lol You see all these "Im-so-original!" folks complaining that America is this, America done that, America whatever. Lots of people wouldn't even help someone who collapsed due to a seizure on the streets or something, but they complain how America is bombing xy locations and killing people. Look inside you folks and remember once more “Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.”.

 

[Hezam]

the problem is the Masonry in the government ...not the people ....

the Jewish in the government like the Virus in the budy ...

 

[scorpion da black]

so the fight moved from one thread to another???

carlos sanata bro please get hold of your self and dont get mad....this is for your own dignity, trash talk is not from our arab morals.

Derfel my freind you are a great person, i would like to appologize for all this fight on our behalf...may i ask you to calm down too.

i didnt participate on that thread because people there started to loose their civil face and moral way of conversation...

keep this acadimic and keep your mutual respect ...

different point of views is welcomed as long as it is polite.

as for what i think about this thread...
the US has made some of the greatest wars after profit and after destruction of comunism

and each war too many immoral activities happened...
in vietnam destruction of many villages, raping women, killing civilians.
in iraq, the americans were obviously after oil.
in bosnia, they werent there to stop the ratial slaughter, they were there to destroy the comunist yougoslavian goverment.
in koria
horishima, nagazaki.
.
.
.
.
.
and many many more...

YET, what has happened doesnt represent the will of all the american people...
a lot of americans out there march against wars, and yell for peace.
we as people must learn to like each other...leave the politicians kill each other..

 

[Sarapva]

Lots of people wouldn't even help someone who collapsed due to a seizure on the streets or something, but they complain how America is bombing xy locations and killing people. Look inside you folks and remember once more ﾂ“Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.ﾂ”.

This is a good point - we need to have compassion for anyone who needs help.

Scorpion and Carlos also have good points - it's best not to resort to insults.

The "Golden Rule" is a good way to live: "Do unto others what you would have them do unto you."

 

[maushan3]

US has also in the past bombed no less than 20 countries. Over thrown democracies installed ruthless dictators. It makes you wonder. Do the average American support these atrocities? If not then why do they keep electing these kind of people?

Goldie Girl talking about how "we" don't bomb countries. I found her statement to be ironic beyond belief.

It's people on the government doing this things. Have you ever watched the movie 'Fahrenheit 9/11'? if you haven't, do it.

For example, the now Pres. Bush cheat on the 200 elections, having his brother as an accomplice in Florida. Another example, Popular vote on him has severally declined over the years. He brainwashed many Americans by telling us (although, me, not an American) that all this war thing was done to protect the country from our terrorists, when in fact this was done not only for the oil, which can be obvious, but for the reconstruction. By destroing entire villages, the government is forced to reconstruct them. By doing this, he calls up his best buddies who have construction cos. and they all profit from it. Nice Business, huh?

Of course there will be a few percentage of Americans that think like this, extremists. But isn't that the same in ANY country and religion, etc.? Americans don't have the fault in this, stop blaming them, this is just a .00000001% on the population which happens to be the government and does it for profitable reasons.

Mauricio

 

[Mars Man]

What, people, do we mean by the word, 'peace?' Let's define that please.

Now this was back on page two...and no one wished to consider nor respond to the suggestion, so I will take the liberty to define what the word 'peace' means in the title and topic of this thread.

On this thread, by 'peace' we mean that state wherein two or more animals exist and persist in the activity of a livelihood in such manner as to not willfully inflict physical harm on another from which harm such activity cannot be maintained.

So now we have these two terms defined--USA and peace. Also, we have the time frame set--the on-going present as of January, 2000.

With that we can really start discussing this hypothesis that The USA is the biggest threat to peace. I will take the position that the premise is false in its terms, namely, that the superlative can be shown to be untrue, and therefore the premise is faulty. The conclusion is negative--the USA is not the biggest threat to peace.

 

[RegDunlap]

It's people on the government doing this things. Have you ever watched the movie 'Fahrenheit 9/11'? if you haven't, do it.

I've seen it. It's interesting, but total fiction. Michael Moore is a great film maker, but he does not really care about the truth.

For example, the now Pres. Bush cheat on the 200 elections, having his brother as an accomplice in Florida. Another example, Popular vote on him has severally declined over the years. Mauricio

If Bush lost in 2000, why did Gore concede? As for the popular vote for Bush, it was;

2000 Election: 50.4 million

2004 Election: 62 million


It INCREASED by 12 million votes, or more than 20%.

Nice try, though. Thanks for playing.

 

[Hezam]

the USA is not the biggest threat to peace but it is Israel and Zionism ...

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

I thought that for something to be threatened, it had to exist first.

I certainly don't find any reason to believe that world peace exists from reading the newspaper.

I would rather characterize the question as to what is the biggest impediment to world peace, and I don't think that the USA fits that bill. The USA could vanish off the face of the Earth today, but we would be no closer to realizing world peace.

EDIT: Carlos, would you mind explaining why you think so?

 

[Hezam]

EDIT: Carlos, would you mind explaining why you think so?

because they drive the USA government to fight us and other countries like packistan

and india ....i have more information, i will talk about that later....

 

[centrajapan]

It is hard to imagine a country which have committed more atrocities and caused more human harms to others than what US has done in the past 60 years. I will leave out Latin America, South East Asia, Middle East in the 50s, 80s where millions of people have died due to American policy.

The latest America's contribution to their long list of war crimes and disturbing the world peace is ofcource Iraq. A country which have been torn apart completely by the imperialist American war machine. The reasons for going to war was fabricated. It was a lie. The Nazis fabricated a lie to attack Poland. The Americans fabricated a lie to enter Vietnam. USA fabricated a lie to invade Iraq. At the time of the invasion the majority of Americans both Democrats and Republicans supported the invasion. The war being dubbed a "war on terror" Let us for a moment pretend that Iraq had anything to September 11th. although we know for sure that it didn't and it is clear that the US government used 9-11 as a pretext to invade Iraq.

This begs the question. Why did if we are to believe that it was bin Laden who was behind the attacks commit atrocities which would remind you very much of how Americans have been behaving throughout the world the past 60 years? After all US is the only country in the world to be sentenced by the International Court for terrorism. Unlawful use of violence. US also have on purpose shot down commercial airliners killing every civilian on board on purpose.

To answer those questions one should perhaps read what bin Laden said right after the attacks on September 11.

Millions of innocent children are being killed as I speak. They are being killed in Iraq without committing any
sins, and we don't hear condemnation or a fatwa (religious decree) from the rulers. In these days, Israeli
tanks infest Palestine — in Jenin, Ramallah, Rafah, Beit Jalla, and other places in the land of Islam, and we
don't hear anyone raising his voice or moving a limb.

When the sword comes down (on America), after 80 years, hypocrisy rears its ugly head. They deplore and
they lament for those killers, who have abused the blood, honor and sanctuaries of Muslims. The least that can
be said about those people is that they are debauched. They have followed injustice. They supported the
butcher over the victim, the oppressor over the innocent child. May God show them His wrath and give them
what they deserve.

To America, I say only a few words to it and its people. I swear by God, who has elevated the skies without
pillars, neither America nor the people who live in it will dream of security before we live it in Palestine, and
not before all the infidel armies leave the land of Muhammad, peace be upon him.

http://www.september11news.com/OsamaSpeeches.htm

I have just taken bits from his speech here. Bin Laden mentions 2 countries. Iraq and Palestine.

In Iraq according to Reuters it is estimated that half a million children died to the sanctions imposed by US.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines/072100-03.htm

In Palestine since 2000 atleast 4500 have died. Many of them being children. The Palestinians are being killed by US made weapons and US funded money. In Palestine as in the Occupied Territories it is against international law for Israel to be making new settlements and to be killing Palestinians in West Bank, Jenin, Ramallah or Gaza.

According to the Geneva Conventions.

The Fourth Geneva Convention applies to the West Bank, to the Gaza Strip, and to the entire City of Jerusalem, in order to protect the Palestinians living there. The Palestinian People living in this Palestinian Land are ﾂ“protected personsﾂ” within the meaning of the Fourth Geneva Convention. All of their rights are sacred under international law.

It is safe to say that due to US policy in the Middle East this has caused tremendous suffering to people in the region. To be more precise to the people in Palestine and Iraq. US policy is a direct reason for instability in the region. Not only a threat to stability and peace. US likes to criticise others about human right violations when US keeps ignoring international humanitarian law together, support war crimes aswell as racial discrimination and oppression aswell as being the architect behind cutting the life line so that hundreds of thousands of children die of famine.

This again fuels hatred and what we now have is a cycle of violence which is making the world as a whole more unsafe.

 

[RegDunlap]

Centra, you better slow down there before you have a conniption my friend.

1/ If you want to talk about blood on hands, look no further than Soviet Russia or Red China. They have far more than the US.

2/ Please tell me where "millions of children" are being killed "as we speak". The sanctions in Iraq were caused by their own leader, Hussein,and his demonic dreams of conquest.Not by the US.

3/ The deaths in Palestine, while tragic, are merely Darwin in action. IfPalestinians are stupid enough to attack Israeli tanks with rocks, they have nobody to blame but themselvesfor what happens.

 

[Hezam]

I agree with centerjapan

 

[Mars Man]

It is rather clear, if one really sits down and thinks things over very carefully and in an involved yet most objective frame of mind, that centerjapan's claim is false.

It is false in that it obviously has been arrived at in a preclusive manner of bias. The reason for this is that while events in history related to a single certain government are focused on, allowance for the entirety of human history's being weighed against the claim in order to balance out events in proper proportion is not undertaken.

It is false in that it insinuates a future state which is different from the present world state based on an pressumption. This is true in that while the premise presents the present world state as being one consisting of 'peace'--as I have defined--it also hypothasizes that such state will be destroyed by a single certain human government.

It is quite clear, that animal groups, over the whole range of the history of life on earth, have never, and do not live in peace. It is quite clear that the improbablity of such a state as peace ever existing for any extended period over the entire globe, is the stuff of dreams--although we do well to keep that dream alive with every bit of humanism we can muster up from the bottom of our hears.

No, the USA is not the biggest threat to world peace--that general government is but a player among many in the socio-cultural in/out group push and shove.

No, the USA is not the biggest threat to world peace--because there has never been world peace, and it is hardly likely there ever will be.

No, the USA is not the biggest threat to world peace--in that the superlative cannot adequately be ascertained by valid and fair measurement.

 

[Haruspex]

No, the USA is not the biggest threat to world peace--because there has never been world peace, and it is hardly likely there ever will be.

Yeah, but people can't seem to understand this, and they always look for someone to blame for us, every single one of us being human, and having instincts.

 

[centrajapan]

1/ If you want to talk about blood on hands, look no further than Soviet Russia or Red China. They have far more than the US.
2/ Please tell me where "millions of children" are being killed "as we speak". The sanctions in Iraq were caused by their own leader, Hussein,and his demonic dreams of conquest.Not by the US.
3/ The deaths in Palestine, while tragic, are merely Darwin in action. IfPalestinians are stupid enough to attack Israeli tanks with rocks, they have nobody to blame but themselvesfor what happens.

¨
First off. I thank you for your answer. But I disagree with your stance and I will now explain why I think you are wrong.

1. Could you please explain what you mean by "more blood on their hands?" I have talked about since WW2 where as our moderator MarsMan wanted to keep this debate since the year 2000.

If we go from WW2. US has invaded, bombed, waged wars on more countries and cultures than China or USSR. From South America in the south west to North East Asia in the north east hence it has affected more people as a whole than the crimes which USSR or China has commited meaning more people in various countries have been affected by US crimes.

Since the year 2000. US is at war against "terror". Especially 2 countries have been affected by this. Afghanistan and Iraq but also Pakistan and especially Palestine.

2. The sanctions of Iraq might have been caused by Saddam but why should the children of Iraq pay for the crimes committed by Saddam? Before 1990 and the imposition of sanctions, Iraq had one of the highest standards of living in the Middle East. Why should an entire nation suffer collateral damage? We have international laws which condemns this. The sanctions impose by US violated millions of human rights. Why should a 5 year old die simply because US doesn't like Saddam? Much more 5 year olds have died due to USA and not Saddam.

Before you answer this question. Why was US supporting Saddam?

3. Oh the Darwin. Does that mean that Jews deserved to die in WW2? Does that means that since the Jews deserved to die in WW" they have a right to kill the Palestinians. I am glad I don't live in a society like that because things could easily get out of hand such as that old woman deserved to die because she is old and I needed some spare change to buy myself a beer.

 

[Hezam]

yes . I agree with centerjapan because his proofs are true and strong than any ...

 

[Haruspex]

3. Oh the Darwin. Does that mean that Jews deserved to die in WW2? Does that means that since the Jews deserved to die in WW" they have a right to kill the Palestinians. I am glad I don't live in a society like that because things could easily get out of hand such as that old woman deserved to die because she is old and I needed some spare change to buy myself a beer.

The two situations are completely different, the genocide was an unnatural, inhuman act, whereas what Israel is doing can be described as peacekeeping at best and occupation at worst. They do not wish to rid the world of Palestinians, they don't kill without a reason just because they feel like owning up someone.

Towards Carlos Santana:

Would you please stop stating after his every comment how much you agree with Centrajapan?
Its obvious to everyone that as long as he attacks the US and Israel you will keep agreeing with him, but in truth you would be most happy if he (don't get me wrong, he doesn't obviously, im just saying "if", i don't accuse Centrajapan of being anti-Jewish) or anyone came up with antisemitist propaganda rubbish. You're so obvious, without even looking at it, I see antisemitism all over your face.

 

[Hezam]

The two situations are completely different, the genocide was an unnatural, inhuman act, whereas what Israel is doing can be described as peacekeeping at best and occupation at worst. They do not wish to rid the world of Palestinians, they don't kill without a reason just because they feel like owning up someone

so funny !! you said "as peacekeeping" !!! they kill ((the people)) as peacekeeping !!!

using F16 and Tanks called peacekeeping !!

Would you please stop stating after his every comment how much you agree with Centrajapan?
Its obvious to everyone that as long as he attacks the US and Israel you will keep agreeing with him, but in truth you would be most happy if he (don't get me wrong, he doesn't obviously, im just saying "if", i don't accuse Centrajapan of being anti-Jewish) or anyone came up with antisemitist propaganda rubbish. You're so obvious, without even looking at it, I see antisemitism all over your face.

you don't know what you talking about ....we ( Arab ) are semites...

read well then reply

 

[scorpion da black]

derfel my friend, we arabs are semitic as well...
there is no anti semitism in our hearts.

arabs lived side by side with jews all over arabia...
we dont hate jews...we hate those who kill us, our women and children, and who turn our lands to ashes and dust...whether it is jew, christian, pagan, aethist...
it just happened to be jews who are killing us at the mean time...
i prefer to call them zionists, because i doubt that an abrahamic religion could actually preach that much hate...it is the zionist philosophy that we arabs are against...

 

[Hezam]

now did you understood my friend Derfel ?