Those damn Japanese kids....

[Supervin]

The last time I checked, this thread was about kids, not racist incidents. What the kids say and what the adults say can't be lumped into a single category.

 

[Pachipro]

I selected the third option as it was tolerable for me although I didn't thik it was the correct thing to do. It's something one gets used to if one wants to live sanely in Japan for any length of time beyond the first few years.

I've talked to some other foreigners in Japan about this. Some suggest I go and explain to the parents that their children's behavior is inappropriate. Others have suggested that it's not their fault, and I should merely remind myself that most Japanese people don't have a good deal of experience with foreigners, and therefore don't know how to act appropriately.

It will happen and will continue to happen especially among grade school kids. In Japan there is still the thought that kids are kids and adults do almost nothing to prevent this type of behavior (among other types) either out of embarrassment or the shock of not knowing what to do when a foreigner is approached like that.

It's the same as for people who are inibriated and make a fool out of themselves. They're behavior is tolerated much like the kids'.

However, if the parent has any experience of seriously studying English or having lived abroad they will sometimes correct the child as I have seen done a few times when it happened to me. Not often enough though. (Although I had no proof to back up that claim I usually assumed it as some of the mothers would usually apologize in English.) In cases like these it is the foreigner who has to speak up if they can speak even a little Japanese. And not to the parent. To the child.

In my case, if a young child pointed at me or said, "gaijin da!" and tried to use some broken English on me I would sometimes point back and say, (depending on my mood at the time) "Nihonjin da!" or something like, "Nani o ite iru omae wa! Baka da! (or in some cases "bakayaro!") or something to that effect. This usually surprised the hell out of them and it most cases it ceased immediately.

Again, it all depended on my mood at the time of the instance. Sometimes I would play along with them and get them laughing while other times I would insult them back.

This behavior usually stops when they get into middle school as they become more shy and self-concious. I don't think I can recall this ever happening to me by middle school and high school kids. Do you?

In these cases it was usually the girls ( in a group of course) who made the comments. These were usually on my looks comparing me to someone famous. Back in the day I was compared to Peter Tork of the Monkees, Michael J. Fox, Alain Delon (famous French actor) and Mickhael Barishinokov more than once although I saw no resemblance whatsoever.

Although not easy at times MP, I say you are correct in your assumption that most Japanese parents do not have a good deal of experience with foreigners or the language and therefore, do not know how to act appropriately.

I say go with the flow and play their own game back on them if you are in the mood. If not, just yell at them and disregard the parents as they won't do anything anyway. It will happen again, you can be sure of it.

 

[Minty]

In the spirit of controversy, I'd like to bring up another subject; the behavior of little Japanese kids and gaijin. For background, I work at a high school in a suburb of Osaka. I take a train to and from work everyday. My school is about a 15 minute walk from the station. On the way, I pass several elementary schools and one middle school. After school, I usually run into masses of children on their way home. Now, what bothers me is this: Everyday, I am greeted by loud and obnoxious yells of these little kids. Before you go ahead and berate me for not being patient with these youngsters, let me explain. I have no problem smiling, waving, and answering all the little kids who just want to say hello. I always do. BUT, that isn't what annoys me.
Take this for example: I was walking home the other day and ran into a group of children with their parents standing in front of school. One kid looks at me, points, and blurts out something like this:
"Herro! I rike hambaga. Preesed to, apuru! chiiizuubaga!"
and then proceeds to ramble off a bunch of funny sounds made up words, apparently trying to sound like he was speaking English. Other kids got in on it, and it disintegrated into general laughter. The parents, standing there next to their kids, looked on with polite smiles, laughed abit, and didn't do a damn thing.
This kind of thing doesn't happen often, but I still think it's completely unacceptable. Imagine if this happened in America. A bunch of, say, Caucasian people standing in front of a school and an Asian-looking teacher walks out. Imagine if the kids started yelling,
"Nihow! I like fried rice! Lui kang ching-chang-fuhoo!?"
Besides the fact that it's completely insulting, I don't know any parents who would tolerate their children acting like that, at least in public. There are other points to consider, too.
One: These children instantly assume anyone foreign-looking speaks English.
Two: Parents are reinforcing these stereotypes.
Like I said, this kind of thing doesn't happen often. When it does, I can usually just ignore it. Sometimes, of course, I can't. A few days ago I was having a bad day and just couldn't take it in stride, and not only did I not answer the kids but even scowled a little. THIS got some mean looks from the parents, which in turn only made me angrier.
I've talked to some other foreigners in Japan about this. Some suggest I go and explain to the parents that their children's behavior is inappropriate. Others have suggested that it's not their fault, and I should merely remind myself that most Japanese people don't have a good deal of experience with foreigners, and therefore don't know how to act appropriately.
What do you think?

I never been to Japan but I have had similar experience in Taiwan. I took my husband who is Western European to Taiwan to take professional wedding pictures. It was a fine day and so my husband asked to have some parts of our picture taken outdoors across the street from the wedding studio. So the photographers and we (dressed in our wedding wears) walked across the street to Chan Kai Shek memorial to take pictures.

There were many people there adults and kids, and there was a bunch of kids starring at us. Even I told the photographers to tell them to stop and to leave us alone; they just kept on following us and starred at us like we were some kind of zoo animals. My husband was extremely mad but as the locals speak such poor English they didn't understand his confrontation.

After they finally left us alone we continued our photo shoot and walked towards another part of the memorial. Only this time there were a lot of parents with kids starring at us. The parents even told their kids to go to my husband to say something in English; my husband didn't understand their English. Then somehow we attracted more audiences where some more adults came over and starred at us, pointing gossiping among themselves. I was quite patient the entire time I didn't loose my temper but my husband definitely wasn't up for this sort of behaviour. Not then, not now.


So yes I think when East Asians who don't have much experience dealing with Westerners can appear fairly rude and don't know how to act appropriately. But then again is it right to tell other people how to behave in their country?:?

 

[Supervin]

.... walked across the street to Chan Kai Shek memorial to take pictures.

So yes I think when East Asians who don't have much experience dealing with Westerners can appear fairly rude and don't know how to act appropriately. But then again is it right to tell other people how to behave in their country?:?

Interesting, I had no idea that this sort of thing would happen in Taiwan. It certainly wouldn't happen in Hong Kong as far as I'm aware. Were you in Taipei or elsewhere?

BTW, it's 'Chiang Kai-Shek'.

About whether it's right for non-natives of a country to say how a country is to behave, I guess it is justified if it's only advisory. If in the States or something, people would give a few looks but not follow you around. But then again, there are a lot more Asians in the States than there are Westerners in Asian countries, so the former is not out of the ordinary. If something is commonplace, you wouldn't get outrageous reactions.

 

[Minty]

Interesting, I had no idea that this sort of thing would happen in Taiwan. It certainly wouldn't happen in Hong Kong as far as I'm aware. Were you in Taipei or elsewhere?

Unfortunately it was in Taipei, and I was fairly embarrassed since I am half Taiwanese. Another thing is people who work in the bank over there actually never heard of Euro. They thought French still use Franc. My husband finds this behaviour very unprofessional and is very surprised since the GDP of Taiwan is quite high (equivalent to Spain and Greece).
Well I am glad to hear that because due to the not so enjoyable photo experience in Taiwan, I want to do the wedding photos again but in another place, say Hong Kong. I am wondering because I don't speak much Cantonese, do people of Hong Kong today understand Mandarin well enough, or if we speak in English would that be ok? I have searched on the internet and I found this particular website Mona Lisa Bridal Salon Photo Service, since you are in Hong Kong, do you know if this studio has good service?

BTW, it's 'Chiang Kai-Shek'.

Sorry can't spell some English words from Chinese translation. I live in Western countries too long, but with translations they are never extremely correct and often have more than one way of spelling it, if you know what I mean.

About whether it's right for non-natives of a country to say how a country is to behave, I guess it is justified if it's only advisory. If in the States or something, people would give a few looks but not follow you around. But then again, there are a lot more Asians in the States than there are Westerners in Asian countries, so the former is not out of the ordinary. If something is commonplace, you wouldn't get outrageous reactions.

Here in Europe nobody stares. If they do, they just glance but it is not because we are interracial couple, because we heard what they said among themselves.
In Australia people look but don't stare, and certainly won't follow us around just because we are an interracial couple.

Oh well c'est la vie!

 

[lastmagi]

I'm always wary about using snappy comebacks as a means of dealing. Mostly because I can never think of them on the spot, but also I'm just not sure how well it solves anything except temporarily.

 

[Supervin]

Another thing is people who work in the bank over there actually never heard of Euro. They thought French still use Franc.

That must have been either an exceptionally tiny bank or that they work exclusively with local currency or USD. The last time I visited Taiwan, they were international enough.

Well I am glad to hear that because due to the not so enjoyable photo experience in Taiwan, I want to do the wedding photos again but in another place, say Hong Kong. I am wondering because I don't speak much Cantonese, do people of Hong Kong today understand Mandarin well enough, or if we speak in English would that be ok? I have searched on the internet and I found this particular website Mona Lisa Bridal Salon Photo Service, since you are in Hong Kong, do you know if this studio has good service?

Well, yes, HK people understand Mandarin to get by at least and can speak a bare minimal, but would be heavily Cantonese-accented.

There is an underground train system called the MTR, which has announcements in English, Cantonese and Mandarin, so getting around shouldn't be difficult. Plus, all signs in Hong Kong are bilingual - English and Chinese.

Anyway, I'd recommend you speak English for the sake of simplicity as most people under it better than Mandarin. In districts on Hong Kong Island like Central, Admiralty, Wanchai and Causeway Bay, there are tons of Westerners there so your husband shouldn't feel left out. (A word of warning though, don't let him wonder into pubs there alone, especially at night as there are a lot of white women there. )

I've heard of Mona Lisa Bridal, so it must be pretty good, although it could be really pricey considering they do quite a bit of advertising.

Here in Europe nobody stares. If they do, they just glance but it is not because we are interracial couple, because we heard what they said among themselves.
In Australia people look but don't stare, and certainly won't follow us around just because we are an interracial couple.

Like I said, you can't compare Western countries to Asian countries as to the staring as there are tons of Asians abroad, but much fewer Westerners abroad. If it were the other way around, I'm sure there would be staring.

 

[Minty]

That must have been either an exceptionally tiny bank or that they work exclusively with local currency or USD. The last time I visited Taiwan, they were international enough.

Well we went to the Standard Chartered Bank, which is a big bank. Maybe we were just unlucky those two days and the employees that were serving us when we went just so happened to be not professional.

Well, yes, HK people understand Mandarin to get by at least and can speak a bare minimal, but would be heavily Cantonese-accented.
There is an underground train system called the MTR, which has announcements in English, Cantonese and Mandarin, so getting around shouldn't be difficult. Plus, all signs in Hong Kong are bilingual - English and Chinese.
Anyway, I'd recommend you speak English for the sake of simplicity as most people under it better than Mandarin. In districts on Hong Kong Island like Central, Admiralty, Wanchai and Causeway Bay, there are tons of Westerners there so your husband shouldn't feel left out. (A word of warning though, don't let him wonder into pubs there alone, especially at night as there are a lot of white women there. )

Thanks for the advice. Don't worry he doesn't like white women, he only likes Asian women. But then again there are heaps of Asians over there!:bikkuri: Nah I am not threatened!

I've heard of Mona Lisa Bridal, so it must be pretty good, although it could be really pricey considering they do quite a bit of advertising.
Like I said, you can't compare Western countries to Asian countries as to the staring as there are tons of Asians abroad, but much fewer Westerners abroad. If it were the other way around, I'm sure there would be staring.

Oh, then do you know any that provides good service and has a fair price?Hmm you are right; Taiwan is not a country with a lot of foreigners, unlike HK or Thailand. It just that my husband was expecting it to be equivalent or better according to the GDP of the country, I think due to China's pressure Taiwan has not been investing too much into their infrastructures. Only the Taipei 101 area matches what GDP figures of TW should be. And they seem to only know Americans as Foreigners.:stan:

 

[MajideSaiaku]

I dont like the Euro, Pound Sterling for life!

I once had a little kid at "The Mall" i think its called, somwhere near the country, that was trying to talk to me (he seemed to be trying to talk to others).

Im ashamed to say my japanese isnt good enough to communicate with him at that time so, i knida felt a little bummed i couldnt really you know, communicate with him, he seemed innocent enough.

he tried talking to another man, japanese, but being japanese he ignored the kid, i thought that was sad, if a little kid is going to run up to you and try and be nice, then return the favour, he doesnt know its not ussually normal to run up to strangers and start talking to them.

I dunno why but that one situation stood out to me as an example of how distant the japanese can be to each other, i can only emagine how japan would be if people were a little friendlier.

 

[Index]

I chose: "Yes, it's tolerable, even though it's not right."
I'm for freedom of speech, no matter what in most cases.

That is not an expression of freedom of speech Silverbackman. You can argue freedom of speech when you are presenting an argument or an idea. In this case it is closer to verbal abuse I would say.

I think mad pierrot that you should use your position as a teacher to educate your students that this is an inappropriate way to behave. What's more I would even approach the parents of some of these children in my capacity as a teacher and politely explain it to them, perhaps incorporating Mycernius' comments regarding lifelong employment at McDonald's and the possibility of them failing your class...

 

[cursore]

When I was a kid I used tease old men in the local Bar (in Rome) they complained to my mother and she made sure I would never done such thing again...

On the other hand I used to get the bus here in Edinburgh to go to work and when teens see me the usually yell "boldy" (yes |I miss some hair)

It is might be worth to speak with the principal of that school, .

 

[Northern Comfort]

Japanese kids are pretty ignorent as a whole. It doesn't get any better when they get into their teenage years either, in fact, it gets worse. The parents are just as ignorent as the kids, too.

 

[cursore]

Japanese kids are pretty ignorent as a whole. It doesn't get any better when they get into their teenage years either, in fact, it gets worse. The parents are just as ignorent as the kids, too.

Try to get a Japanese child to any European pubblic elementary school, something tells me that he or she will be called China or Sars, ignorance is well spread in the human race, therefore is better to keep the dialoge open instead of closing ourself in our sorrow.

 

[yukio_michael]

This is an old thread, but I'd just like to add that I've always got along very well with young Japanese kids, sons & daughters of friends of course--- they seem to like me, and want to come over to play "motto asonde..." they say when they leave... of course, they aren't random strangers on the street... but it makes me think I should teach English to children.

 

[Mars Man]

I understand. I have had very few problems with kids while here in Japan...it may just have been circumstances? I don't have any near major problems with my own kids--who I try to treat as much as friends as I do sons. MM

 

[miki78]

This depends on how old the Kids are in my opinion

If there under twelve then well Kids are Kids and to be honest at that age and under if there cheeky will take the micky out of everyone and everything

if there teenagers they should no better

Most parents only shoosh there kids anyway

It is anoying that parents don't do anything but the same thing happens here everyday for diffrent reasons

I think becouse Japanese people always seem so polite to westerners we are more shocked by it

At least they don't swear at you and nick your purse

or pock you and laugh at the bus stop like kids have done to my nan in London :auch:

Or like a guy in the sweetshop near my nan was beaton up so bad he was in a coma for a few days

By a gang with kids in it as young as four

If i go to Japan and all kids do is laugh at me coz i'm english i'll think myself lucky

 

[Revenant]

Just last Monday I taught a class of grade 6 students how to interview foreignersin Kyoto on their school trip. They were just to introduce themselves, ask where the foreigner was from, and the ask what place in Kyoto the foreigner liked. The teachers were teaching the kids how to react to the foreigners answers, and were a kid to actually do that, I would be just a little irritated. Things such as were I from Brazil, and I told the students I was from Brazil, they would go 'Ohhhhh! Braaaaziiiruuuu! Soccer soccer!' with exaggerated gestures of amazement. But perhaps that's just me.

Most often, if a student says something strange or odd, I just let them know that I don't actually understand them, or if it's just really absurd, I just ignore it.

Anyhow, it seemed odd that a teacher who was very well liked and was actually a very entertaining teacher was teaching the kids something that I thought could very well annoy a foreigner.

 

[dreamer]

Well... I guess it's youth... but still, the sooner they're taught not to act like this, the better it''d be.
I remember when I was younger, being the only chinese in my school, I often got classmates saying stuff like "Bruce lee, yeeee-ha! ching-chang-chung !", but it stopped after several years...

Still, I think if you were to actually tell those kids in japanese that it is unnapropriate to greet foreigners this way, it might surprise them and maybe even calm them.

 

[Mars Man]

I know the scene there Revenant. I have termed that the 'stand-up-comic-act syndrome' because I really have come to reason that it has rubbed off on much of the public from TV--the manzai figures that have participated heavily in many 'quiz & testing game' shows over the past six years especially. MM

 

[Mrjones]

I have excately the same problem in college.. Nihon tsing tsang tsuu ba. Only thing what is different these kids aren't with their parents. Pretty annoying yes.
Appropriate? No.

 

[zeroyon]

same thing happened to me a few days ago... i was riding my bike past a junior high school, and a bunch of kids were there at the intersection of the road, where I had to stop at and wait for the light to change. Then, all of a sudden, the whole lot of them see me, and just start firing off random english phrases at me, like "i like kittens", "my name is kazuo", "this is a pen", "your head is big", "that is a stoplight, and that is a road", and a whole bunch of other crap in a barrage of bastardized english. All I did was just simile and nod, while thinking of this thread in the back of my head, then pedaled off (lol)

 

[Arabic Boy]

This can never happen to me because when I'm not in the mood
I just give them THE LOOK with the EVIL Smile ,after that they run to
their moms crying ( I can be REALLY scary)

before 2 years I lost a front tooth , and that made me look like a real Gangster
so EVERYONE assumed that I am a REAL gangster or a hitman
thank GOD I had a new one soon (now girls can't look away )

 

[bakaKanadajin]

Japanese kids have their own way of acting out, they study way too hard, read alot of manga, have been known to leap in front of trains and sometimes group together and..make fun of foreginers.

Kids here in Toronto and some other large North American cities do other stuff, play peewee football, set off cherry bombs, watch more TV than any other kids on the planet, group together and... beat the piss out of another kid, vandalize, etc.

Generally any country has examples of good and bad parenting, Japan is no different. I had some great kids in my classes and some rotten ones, but once I showed the rotten ones some tough love and discipline (far beyond NOVA's accepted limit, which was necessary at times) they smartened up. Kids are like plants, they need to be heavily pruned and guided away from bad stuff and encouraged into the good stuff until they grow into something better.

Overall I really can't say what happened was tolerable but at the same time I can't place the blame anywhere but on the parents, and even then not too heavily, because generally Japanese kids are still extremely polite overall and engage in far less BS than Western kids.

 

[Jlin]

I don't want to sound dismissive. But as an Asian male growing up in the US(Houston, TX), I was called a chink/jap/gook and go back to where I came from for more times than I care to remember. I've even been spit at in the face during high school by a group of boys. So I'd just say these are normal reaction for kids everywhere when they see someone look different from them.

However, my wife(a Taiwanese) told me once she asked a group of ladies for directions last year in Japan and it literally freaked them out because they weren't expecting a person looking just like them to be a gaijin. And I doubt this kind of reaction would happen in other Asian countries.

 

[tomorrow_apple]

I've had this happen to me a few times, both with children and adults. They will randomly start talking to me in English, with random phrases that don't have any meaning. Most of the time, it's all innocent fun though. It usually takes me a while to figure out that they are 'practicing' their English one me, since I'm a gaijin, instead of being rude. haha.