Is it time for US Force to leave Japan?

[KirinMan]

I want to see picture proof.

"I ain't about to go through 300 pages of web links to get your answer."
Have a good night.

Compared to back in the early to mid 80's, they have it great and there isn't anything you can say or "prove" to me otherwise.

I've been in the "old" and the "new" it's day and night. I was here in the Marines when you were in Elementary School or maybe Junior High School, and compared to what my Uncle's and cousins had back in the 1950's, 60's and 70's, from the stories I heard them tell, I had it better than they did.

So please don't start preaching to me about "sub-standard", it just isnt going to cut it with me. I would have taken the "new" vintage 1990's anytime any day.

Semper Fi.

 

[KirinMan]

Well I would keep bases that are closest to civilian life but in reality I would make that be the decision of the leader of Japan (does Japan call them a prime minister?) since they know their military strengths and all.
I also wanted to say I know my answer sounds like a cop-out to the question but that's just my answer. I'm not some military expert and won't pretend to be.

No actually it doesnt sound like a cop out, and I appreciate your putting your thoughts and opinions here. Yes here in Japan the leader is called the Prime Minister and I am pretty sure he knows what the strengths and weaknesses of this country are.

It is a good thing to have your opinions about topics like this, it helps to broaden one's horizon's and together we learn more aobut the world that we live in. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Arc Light]

"I ain't about to go through 300 pages of web links to get your answer."
Have a good night.
Compared to back in the early to mid 80's, they have it great and there isn't anything you can say or "prove" to me otherwise.
I've been in the "old" and the "new" it's day and night. I was here in the Marines when you were in Elementary School or maybe Junior High School, and compared to what my Uncle's and cousins had back in the 1950's, 60's and 70's, from the stories I heard them tell, I had it better than they did.
So please don't start preaching to me about "sub-standard", it just isnt going to cut it with me. I would have taken the "new" vintage 1990's anytime any day.
Semper Fi.

Whatever you say, God. Your'e always right. Your blindness and arrogance are duly noted. Typical.

I was here in the Marines when you were in Elementary School or maybe Junior High School,

Yeah, sure you were...and I'm not fixing to retire either.

 

[KirinMan]

Your'e always right

And dont you ever forget it ok....Top picture old barracks....bottom picture new barracks built and paid for with Japanese tax money. No problems with the use of asbestos in those.
Camp Hansen....

The older building is similar to all the barracks formerly used by Marines on Okinawa and the "new" building is the current barracks type building used by Marines in Okinawa.

Plus in the bottom picture you will see one of the older style barracks, now mostly used for offices.

Yeah, sure you were...

Glad to see that you understand.

 

[Arc Light]

Yup...that's the ones...the ones in that bottom pic. The same ones with asbestos in the linoleum floor tiles and ceiling tiles! Wow! The memories! Did they ever put carpet in? They were talking about it when I was barracks NCO, but I never heard about whether it happened or not. Us old farts preferred having the floors that had to be waxed and buffed.

What you hotlinked to in the first picture is what is similar to our line companies used for their company offices. I figured they used to be barracks, they sure smelled like it.

What surprises me is that you even bothered to post a reply, since oyu had already predetermined that you are right regardless, that the goverment is being scammed out of millions over false claims of asbestos contamination. That's what your saying, right? That all federal buildings built within the last 20 years or so are perfectly safe and that no one in the military today should be filing a VA disability claim for it...right? Hmmm...interesting statement you make there.

Sounds like you need to be calling some federal office, because you obviously have a secret that no one else knows about! I mean, yeah, you used pictures from other websites that aren't yours, but that doesn't prove your point. That bottom pic is exactly what we had.

But since your profile says that you've been living in Okinawa or Japan for 15 years, something isn't adding up. If you're there now, surely you would have access to get your own pictures of your acclaimed "new" buildings, instead of simply hotlinking to another site's pictures. I mean, if you even were in the Marines and decided to stay in Okinawa and got out, you still should have some form of access to military bases for purposes of healthcare and whatnot. Unless that is, you got busted for drugs and were booted out and decided to stay, or, you're just plain lying.

And judging by how defensive you're getting, one begins to wonder.

 

[KirinMan]

But since your profile says that you've been living in Okinawa or Japan for 15 years, something isn't adding up. If you're there now, surely you would have access to get your own pictures of your acclaimed "new" buildings, instead of simply hotlinking to another site's pictures. I mean, if you even were in the Marines and decided to stay in Okinawa and got out, you still should have some form of access to military bases for purposes of healthcare and whatnot. Unless that is, you got busted for drugs and were booted out and decided to stay, or, you're just plain lying.
And judging by how defensive you're getting, one begins to wonder

Dude you need to take a serious look in the mirror if you think I am being defensive. You my friend making quite a few wild judgements assumptions and insinuations here as well.

btw this is all off topic here and to prevent it from going any further I am going to let you know that unless you want to make a further comment about whether or not the US military needs to stay here in Japan I wont be commenting to your rather problematic posts.

Oh and back on topic I believe the military should stay but needs to be reorganized and unused land should be returned to Japan.

 

[EmperorHirohito]

In order to get this topic back ON-TOPIC, I have a question.

With North Korea still trying to develop a nuclear program, and even nuclear weapons, and still being regarded as an unstable political regime, would Japan feel safe if ALL U.S forces were pulled out off the bases thus opening up Japan to possible attack at some point in the future, even nuclear attack?

I think the answer would be a resounding NO.

 

[Arc Light]

Well, in relation to that, about a year or so ago, there was news about something like a drawback in the number of troops in Japan, and either Japan was paying for them to go, or the US was paying for them to go...whatever happened to that?

 

[Sukotto]

With North Korea still trying to develop a nuclear program, and even nuclear weapons, and still being regarded as an unstable political regime, would Japan feel safe if ALL U.S forces were pulled out off the bases thus opening up Japan to possible attack at some point in the future, even nuclear attack?

Would NKorea still try to develop nuclear WEAPONS,
if the US had not invaded Iraq which was not involved in any attack on the US and did NOT have nuclear weapons?

Well, in relation to that, about a year or so ago, there was news about something like a drawback in the number of troops in Japan, and either Japan was paying for them to go, or the US was paying for them to go...whatever happened to that?

I think there were some in the US that wanted Japan to pay for the redeployment and the building of a new US base to replace Utenma air field at Okinawa which is supposed to have been gone by now. The agreement was to remove the base after 7 years.
Is this the same thing?

 

[hanachan]

In my opinion,
as far as North Korea is being a dangerous country for the US, the US Force stays in Japan.
The US Force's role is also to protect their own country, not only Japan.
Japan is the first defense line against North Korean attack.
For this reason, the US Force won't leave Japan, even if Japanese people beg them to go. Of course I know the majority of Japanese never say so.

I think that Japan cannot protect by herself. When it comes, we don't know whether the US will act as Japan expects. But most of Japanese believe the US Force to do it, or try to believe that.
The US is the only one nation which declares that the attack against Japan is the same as the attack against the US, it moved us not a little and that is the one we believe.

 

[caster51]

I think US forces should leave OKinawa...

 

[SouthernBelle82]

I don't think any country should police any other country. That's just wrong to do so and goes against that nation's soverignty in my opinion. It depends on Japan and the military. Do they have mandatory service? I'm not sure. Some country's put great pride, tradition and honor in military service so I guess it just depends. I'm against mandatory service because you'd never know when another country does a George W Bush and invades another country like Irak. If here in the U.S. we still had a draft (the guy who ended the draft is now running for president, look up Mike Gravel) Bush would already be invading Iran and Syria which is scary because they haven't done anything.

Having been a military brat and Dad was in the Air Force until the major shutdown of bases was in the 70s when Vietnam was pretty much over. Whether they should leave and shut down to save American Dollars $$ may be important for a few of us, in the long run, It is a needed security to have our Advanced bases in case of a major crisis. As the USA are the Policemen of the World, we tend to be in everyone's back yard. Yes we can be mis-behave a little or a whole lot too while in the position. We are not the Major power over any country. The game field has even out a little. Can Japan haf=ve its own Military force ready? how many japanese (men and women ) would join the military (JASDF) to protect their country? If the Peace Constitution can be revisioned and other Asian countries NOT PANIC about Japan will be come a militaristic WARMONGER like it was in the mid 30-40s. WE are always looking over our shoulders of what the others are doingin thier backyard.
BTW,, Heisei tenno BANZAI !!
Ichi-KAZE

Oh good I'm glad it didn't seem like a cop-out. I do have members in my family past and present who have served in the military but I don't know much about military issues. My grandfather (rip) used to be in the navy (never saw war luckily) and he used to tell me stories of his time in the navy but it was just on his experiences so that's all I know. I thought they were probably called a Prime Minister since other Asian country's I know of also call their leader's PM. Thanks for welcoming my comments even though on issues of the military I'm not that smart on it.

No actually it doesnt sound like a cop out, and I appreciate your putting your thoughts and opinions here. Yes here in Japan the leader is called the Prime Minister and I am pretty sure he knows what the strengths and weaknesses of this country are.
It is a good thing to have your opinions about topics like this, it helps to broaden one's horizon's and together we learn more aobut the world that we live in. Thanks for sharing.

I could live with your plan Obeika. Definietley reorganize the US military and return unused land to Japan. I'm sure they could use it to build places or farming or something like that more useful than it being unused and the grass growing.

Dude you need to take a serious look in the mirror if you think I am being defensive. You my friend making quite a few wild judgements assumptions and insinuations here as well.
btw this is all off topic here and to prevent it from going any further I am going to let you know that unless you want to make a further comment about whether or not the US military needs to stay here in Japan I wont be commenting to your rather problematic posts.
Oh and back on topic I believe the military should stay but needs to be reorganized and unused land should be returned to Japan.

 

[SouthernBelle82]

No they wouldn't have. Also Bush ignored Mr. Il and didn't keep up relations unlike with the Clinton administration. Same thing with Iran and they wouldn't be talking about it and threatning (they're years away however). If someone was supposed to remove a base seven years ago why haven't the Japanese government enforced that?

Would NKorea still try to develop nuclear WEAPONS,
if the US had not invaded Iraq which was not involved in any attack on the US and did NOT have nuclear weapons?


I think there were some in the US that wanted Japan to pay for the redeployment and the building of a new US base to replace Utenma air field at Okinawa which is supposed to have been gone by now. The agreement was to remove the base after 7 years.
Is this the same thing?

 

[KirinMan]

I don't think any country should police any other country.

I agree with you here, and just to share with you the US Forces, at least here in Japan, are not involved in any police like work similar to the "other" two places in the world that currently come to mind.

If someone was supposed to remove a base seven years ago why haven't the Japanese government enforced that?

That is a huge complicated issue, because the US while being agreeable to returning the base in question do not want to give it back until it has similar use facilities somewhere else in country or near enough by that it could respond in a timely manner if anything arose in the region.

 

[Sukotto]

If someone was supposed to remove a base seven years ago why haven't the Japanese government enforced that?

Actually, it was only a few years ago the base was supposed to be gone.
They had agreed 7 years prior to that, that within 7 years the base would be gone.

Okinawans have formed human chains around the entire base a couple times in protest.
I found this site if you want more info:
Futenma-Henoko Action Network
http://www.fhan.org/index.html

 

[Kujiro]

Well my opinion is that todays world isn't a very good place to live ...
Since Japan will develop its own army it will need only weapons not soldiers .
Regarding who are Japan's neighbors I think it would be better if the Americans remain there. ( I've seen maps of Okinawa showing those damn bases and airfields and everything else ...)
But someone must protect it from North Korea and China .
That's the reality ...

 

[KirinMan]

Well my opinion is that todays world isn't a very good place to live ...
Since Japan will develop its own army it will need only weapons not soldiers .
Regarding who are Japan's neighbors I think it would be better if the Americans remain there. ( I've seen maps of Okinawa showing those damn bases and airfields and everything else ...)
But someone must protect it from North Korea and China .
That's the reality ...

I agree the world situation is not so great and that in reality there arent too many options available at this time but keeping such a large majority of them here in Okinawa is over-kill.

The mainland of Japan should take a larger percentage of the bases and give Okinawa some relief, but it wont, so we're stuck with them.

 

[caster51]

The mainland of Japan should take a larger percentage of the bases and give Okinawa some relief, but it wont, so we're stuck with them.

therefore,I think U.S should get out voluntary.
then Japan will change article 9 with option of A-bomd.

 

[KirinMan]

therefore,I think U.S should get out voluntary.
then Japan will change article 9 with option of A-bomd.

Yeah right, and then wait and watch as the Japan we now know today disappears from the face of the earth thanks to it's neighbors to the west.

Caster you complain about Hiroshima and Nagasaki all the time however you want Japan to have the same WMD's. Something just doesnt quite make sense here.

 

[caster51]

Caster you complain about Hiroshima and Nagasaki all the time however you want Japan to have the same WMD's. Something just doesnt quite make sense here.

Nope.it is different story that Japan has a Abomd and complainig about Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
one is priblem of protecting.
the other is who doropped a- bomd there practically

 

[KirinMan]

Nope.it is different story that Japan has a Abomd and complainig about Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Yet they are interlinked, for the only country in the world that has suffered the effects of an atomic bombing, to want to build and develop the same weapons would be to me hypocritical.

 

[caster51]

for the only country in the world that has suffered the effects of an atomic bombing, to want to build and develop the same weapons would be to me hypocritical.

why?

that is why Japan shold have it to protect
Every country has a right to have A-bomd

for the only country in the world that has dropped the effects of an atomic bombing, to want to keep and develop more the same weapons would be to me hypocritical

 

[frostyg02uk]

Hmm ive tried to stay away from this post but its pulled me in. OK to start i dont think any country should have to "put" up with any other nations militery especially one that yearly brings disgrace with its antics such as a few bad ens raping local women and then disapearing back to the US or germany. I do understand that america has protected Japan and most definity helped alot with the economic booms but at the same time they havnt helped with neighbouring countries disliking Japan more because they are seen as hiding behind america and when things like Iraq come you have Bush saying send troops to help us in Iraq or we will pull out of Japan. what kind of F-ing blackmail is that? send troops to iraq a war no one agreed with making the countries envolved terrorist targets or we pull out and let china roll over you. If i think of germany winning the war and occupying England now i think myself as well as many, many others would still be trying to get independence now and of course its not the same but with the US being there and being depended on for protection i dont see Japan as free.

Of course to every coin there is 2 sides and when ever a country lets go of another they have to think of life without big brother. Lets talk IFs and say America are not there does it mean Japan need A bombs? hmm Ok for one america would NEVER allow it, like N korea. But we are talking IFs...then i believe they might need it. that would be a shame, as Japan dont need an army now they are one of the greatest peace promotors and probably the closest to total pafasism (spelling?) something close to my worldly ideal. I think todays world is controlled by the market...could China afford a war with Japan now? as the aggressor, no i dont think so.

To keep up with the latest topic on this thread ill also say that while Japan shouldnt get an A bomb just because they want one i do find the Us hypocritical to say who can and cant have an A bomb considering they are the only ones who have ever actually used one. I believe on one hand that the A bomb is probably the best invention made for peace, considering the amount of wars stopped due to fears of a nuking war. While trying to get Korea to stop their nuclear reactors is probably the only sane thing to do i also dislike how the Us try to police the world considering that when the world askes them not to do something they just ignore it anyway. (Iraq and NATO anyone?) While a agree with castor in ways i also agree with Obeika that Japan shouldnt produce any WMD's ...but probably for other reasons.

Its hard to listen to americans reason when they bomb so many.

 

[Sukotto]

I do understand that america has .... most definity helped alot with the economic booms but at the same time they havnt helped with neighbouring countries disliking Japan more because they are seen as hiding behind america and when things like Iraq come you have Bush saying send troops to help us in Iraq or we will pull out of Japan. what kind of F-ing blackmail is that? send troops to iraq a war no one agreed with making the countries envolved terrorist targets or we pull out

What?
You mean that "coalition of the willing"
that Donald Rumsfeld bragged about;
those "60 countries" we saw in said coalition scrolling across the bottom of
our screens during tv news programs as the bombs began to fall,
you're trying to tell me those governments weren't listening to their own people? :bikkuri: (sarcasm)

(the same goes for the International Criminal Court,
blackmailing countries into not endorsing it or to vote for the
exceptions for US troops (yeah, right, everyone knows who really fears that, !@#$ing bast--ds))

 

[frostyg02uk]

Hmm im not sure what you mean haha. If you mean governments not listening to their people then you can look at your country's best friend the UK. we didnt want anything to do with the war only tony blair did (proabbly because we owed america money from WW2)
but i dont think i should talk about that too much on this forum. But if you im happy to discuss other things with you ;oD