Question Should the Japanese monarch be elected?

[Tigerstein978]

If you are a Japanese citizen and support the imperial system, how many of you support your emperors and empresses being voted in rather than chosen hereditarily? And yes kings and queens are sometimes elected! Elective Monarchy - TV Tropes
i firmly believe all leaders should be chosen based on merit, not their heritage, and by the people, not the powers that be!
I'm definitely against the misogynistic practice of denying women rulership! Japanese monarchism must evolve or it will inevitably perish! Women aren't allowed to be emperors in Japan. Does it matter?
I'm saying this as someone who considers himself conservative!

 

[Grandpa Frank]

Not sure if you meant for a picture to go with the post , but it only showed a grey shield symbol/or solid black box when I approved it. Also , just as a side note , probably about 90% of our regular posters here are non-Japanese though many live in Japan. Welcome to the Forum.

 

[Lothor]

Japanese people are generally happy with their monarchy and most would agree with you on the right for a female to be monarch, though not with the idea of a vote.
However, there are powerful ultraconservative forces in Japan that strongly resist modernisation, even if it means that the imperial family dies out - a very real possibility - so I don't expect your idea to gain any traction.

 

[mdchachi]

View attachment 84752
If you are a Japanese citizen and support the imperial system, how many of you support your emperors and empresses being voted in rather than chosen hereditarily? And yes kings and queens are sometimes elected! Elective Monarchy - TV Tropes
i firmly believe all leaders should be chosen based on merit, not their heritage, and by the people, not the powers that be!
I'm definitely against the misogynistic practice of denying women rulership! Japanese monarchism must evolve or it will inevitably perish! Women aren't allowed to be emperors in Japan. Does it matter?
I'm saying this as someone who considers himself conservative!

I think it would make more sense to disband the monarchy entirely than convert it to some elected position. It has no real use except to maintain some sense of tradition and patriotism. Converting it to a political position would essentially destroy the remaining thread that keeps it desirable. I do agree they should allow women to ascend to the "throne." I believe there is precedent for that in Japan so there's no good reason not to.

 

[bentenmusume]

I'm sorry, but the tone of your post suggests that you clearly have no idea about the role of the Japanese monarchy in modern society. It's completely a ceremonial/figurehead position, while the actual governing is done through a parliamentary system, almost entirely similar to the way the United Kingdom has a queen but also a Prime Minister/Parliament.

Does it anger you that kings and queens in England are not elected democratically? The emperor is not the "leader" of Japan in any sense except a symbolic one.

Like mdchachi, I do agree that it would be nice to allow women to ascend the "throne".

 

[Zukura]

I voted against because it is a part of japanese tradition.
But i like the idea to give women a chance.

 

[Buntaro]

Such a vote would be a slap in the face to Princess Aiko

 

[mdchachi]

Such a vote would be a slap in the face to Princess Aiko

What do you mean? The poll is about making it an elected position or not.

 

[Tigerstein978]

Not sure if you meant for a picture to go with the post , but it only showed a grey shield symbol/or solid black box when I approved it. Also , just as a side note , probably about 90% of our regular posters here are non-Japanese though many live in Japan. Welcome to the Forum.

I'll add a picture. My question applies to both Japanese and non-Japanese citizens of the country!

 

[Tigerstein978]

I'm sorry, but the tone of your post suggests that you clearly have no idea about the role of the Japanese monarchy in modern society. It's completely a ceremonial/figurehead position, while the actual governing is done through a parliamentary system, almost entirely similar to the way the United Kingdom has a queen but also a Prime Minister/Parliament.

Does it anger you that kings and queens in England are not elected democratically? The emperor is not the "leader" of Japan in any sense except a symbolic one.

Like mdchachi, I do agree that it would be nice to allow women to ascend the "throne".

Don't presume to know what I am or am not aware of! Yes I know the emperor is ceremonial and a figurehead and not the leader of Japan, and that the Japanese Diet makes political decisions. I'm also aware, as you don't seem to be that the Queen and king of England are not purely ceremonial and have power, though it is limited! The UK Parliament is not completely in charge! 30 Things Queen Elizabeth II Can Do That No One Else Can
Regardless of whether or not why have power or are symbolic, all monarchs and leaders in general should be voted in. The Israeli President is figurehead as well, but he is also elected! President of Israel - Wikipedia Personally, I don't see the point of someone being president or monarch if they have no say in their countries policies. Both the Israeli President and Japanese emperor should be given the power to make poltical decisions as long as parliament agrees, as is the case with Queen Elizabeth II.

 

[Tigerstein978]

Such a vote would be a slap in the face to Princess Aiko

She could run for empress as well, as could all the other royals if they wanted to!

 

[Tigerstein978]

Japanese people are generally happy with their monarchy and most would agree with you on the right for a female to be monarch, though not with the idea of a vote.
However, there are powerful ultraconservative forces in Japan that strongly resist modernisation, even if it means that the imperial family dies out - a very real possibility - so I don't expect your idea to gain any traction.

I'm well aware of the far-right, hardline traditionalist parties in Japan. They are just like the Christian Right in America. It's infuriating how they hold back progress, in this matter and others. Liberals and reformers in both countries must keep fighting them!

 

[JPeters]

Adhering to your request to not be presumptuous requires the asking of many questions, Tigerstein978.

The first relates to this statement: "Personally, I don't see the point of someone being president or monarch if they have no say in their countries policies."

Could that be an indication that you feel giving political authority to the monarchy in Japan, which they don't presently have, would be a proper course in the future governance of the country?

 

[bentenmusume]

Yeah, I'm sorry, but that's kind of a bizarre stance.
You want to give the Japanese monarchy political authority which they don't have, and because of that authority which you want to give them, you feel they should be elected.

What exactly is your stake in this? Do you ever even plan on living in Japan? The vast majority of Japanese people (even progressive types) don't care about the emperor/empress being elected, because they know it's mostly a ceremonial position.

Honestly, I respect the emperor/empress a lot more for being completely unconnected to politics. Why you feel like joining the two (and have you even considered how that division/balance of power would be handled) is beyond me. It honestly just seems like you're just pushing an agenda without any fundamental knowledge of how things are or how they might reasonably be changed for the better.

 

[mdchachi]

Don't presume to know what I am or am not aware of!

This is the Internet! Virtually everything written here is based on presumption.

Regardless of whether or not why have power or are symbolic, all monarchs and leaders in general should be voted in.

Well that's an opinion. But I still don't see the point in voting in leaders that are purely symbolic. If you're going to disrupt tradition to that extent just get rid of the position altogether.

 

[Majestic]

Yes, I find the notion of an elected monarchy to be a sort of absurdism in itself; the one is incompatible with the other. Or, at least the historical Japanese concept of royalty is incompatible with democracy.

 

[Tigerstein978]

Yeah, I'm sorry, but that's kind of a bizarre stance.
You want to give the Japanese monarchy political authority which they don't have, and because of that authority which you want to give them, you feel they should be elected.

What exactly is your stake in this? Do you ever even plan on living in Japan? The vast majority of Japanese people (even progressive types) don't care about the emperor/empress being elected, because they know it's mostly a ceremonial position.

Honestly, I respect the emperor/empress a lot more for being completely unconnected to politics. Why you feel like joining the two (and have you even considered how that division/balance of power would be handled) is beyond me. It honestly just seems like you're just pushing an agenda without any fundamental knowledge of how things are or how they might reasonably be changed for the better.

How dare you accuse me of lacking knowledge about Japanese poltics or how to change them! You know nothing about me, don't pretend you do! Me planning on living in Japan is irrelevant! If I were to say that Japanese citizens and other citizens of foreign nations had nor fight to talk about America, because they didn't live here, you'd rightly call me a racist! My only agenda is an end to the archaic and Orwellian practice of heredity-based rule, in Japan and everywhere else. Any position of authority or leadership , even if it is purely ceremonial, should be given based on a vote. Character is what matters, not genes! I think religious leaders at churches and other holy establishments should be voted in as well. If the emperor or president has no ability to effect the politics of his/her nation, then their isn't any point in having him/her at all. It's actually somewhat insulting; Japanese citizens and parliament members can be involved in and shape their nation's affairs but not the freaking emperor?! It's beyond me that you feel the need to insult and pronounce judgment on me!

 

[Tigerstein978]

Adhering to your request to not be presumptuous requires the asking of many questions, Tigerstein978.

The first relates to this statement: "Personally, I don't see the point of someone being president or monarch if they have no say in their countries policies."

Could that be an indication that you feel giving political authority to the monarchy in Japan, which they don't presently have, would be a proper course in the future governance of the country?

As I said, as long as the emperor/empress doesn't defy or try to circumnavigate the Japanese Diet, him having political authority isn't a bad thing. Actually, I think it's necessary. Because parliaments can slip into tyranny as easily as presidents and monarchs can! If the Diet passes policies that aren't in the best interest of Japan, the emperor/empress should have the right refuse royal assent to these proposed laws, like Queen Elizabeth II does. If they are being outright corrupt and discriminatory, then he/she should have the right to dissolve the Diet, again as Elizabeth has the power to do, although she needs a parliamentary vote for this as well. Also, if she dissolves the U.K government, she must allow new elections to be held. If she didn't, and tries to rule as an absolute monarch, she would be arrested, tried and convicted of treason, and imprisoned/executed. The latter happened to Charles I of England. His execution prevented any more English/British kings/queens from trying to re-establish or engage in Absolute monarchism in the Isles. Japan's imperial system should have the same expectations for their monarchs, and consequences if they don't live up to it!

 

[JPeters]

I'm afraid I must withdraw from this discussion, Tigerstein978. I apologize.

But it wouldn't be polite if I didn't give you the reason why I feel compelled to withdraw.

Your writings are all over the political map, both geographically and historically.

For example, to properly compare one nation's system of governance to another in just the present day requires hundreds of pages of explanation, and you do not provide that.

The same is true of historical comparisons that span centuries. In fact, comparisons of historical events that may be hundreds of years apart require many more than hundreds of pages.

I suppose I mean I can't make sense of your writings.

Again, I apologize.

 

[Buntaro]

I am reminded of how, in the last days of WWII, a group of Japanese military fanatics tried to assassinate Hirohito. (Obviously, they failed.)

 

[JPeters]

That reference to immediate post-war events and the monarchy reminds me of how very wise it was for the GHQ to treat the monarchy in the manner that it did.

 

[mdchachi]

How dare you accuse me of lacking knowledge about Japanese poltics or how to change them!

He didn't accuse you of anything. He stated his opinion that you seem clueless.

Character is what matters, not genes!

Now, if that is what matters, one could argue that putting people in power via the democratic system is not a reliable way to elect people of character.

Japan's imperial system should have the same expectations for their monarchs, and consequences if they don't live up to it!

Why? You haven't offered anything to support this view beyond a simple opinion.

 

[bentenmusume]

How dare you accuse me of lacking knowledge about Japanese poltics or how to change them! You know nothing about me, don't pretend you do!

I'm not "accusing" you of anything. I'm simply expressing my thoughts about the words and opinions you have posted here. I don't need to know anything more about you to comment on the content of your posts, which is all I am doing.

(You know nothing about me either, yet you seem perfectly content to hurl far personal invectives at me beyond anything I'm saying to you.)

Anyhow, I'm going to bow out of this conversation, too. Clearly (not because I am making assumptions about you, but simply reading the tone and content of your words) you have some sort of deeply personal agenda about this whole concept which renders it impossible for you to simply discuss and debate ideas without getting all personal and defensive.

And the reason I mention living in Japan is because that if you did, you'd realize that the role of the Emperor/Empress in modern Japanese society is basically to show up at important events and ceremonies to smile and wave elegantly and say a few nice little comments here and there, and that's the extent of their importance/"power" as far the modern country goes. I can't think of one person (including myself), conversative, progressive or otherwise who considers Japan an "Orwellian" state simply because they happen to have an unelected monarch performing an almost entirely symbolic/ceremonial role.

As mdchachi points out, there are plenty of other first-world countries, including my own (and your?) home country of the United States, whose administrations are just as if not far more scary despite being democratically elected.

 

[Tigerstein978]

I'm not "accusing" you of anything. I'm simply expressing my thoughts about the words and opinions you have posted here. I don't need to know anything more about you to comment on the content of your posts, which is all I am doing.

(You know nothing about me either, yet you seem perfectly content to hurl far personal invectives at me beyond anything I'm saying to you.)

Anyhow, I'm going to bow out of this conversation, too. Clearly (not because I am making assumptions about you, but simply reading the tone and content of your words) you have some sort of deeply personal agenda about this whole concept which renders it impossible for you to simply discuss and debate ideas without getting all personal and defensive.

And the reason I mention living in Japan is because that if you did, you'd realize that the role of the Emperor/Empress in modern Japanese society is basically to show up at important events and ceremonies to smile and wave elegantly and say a few nice little comments here and there, and that's the extent of their importance/"power" as far the modern country goes. I can't think of one person (including myself), conversative, progressive or otherwise who considers Japan an "Orwellian" state simply because they happen to have an unelected monarch performing an almost entirely symbolic/ceremonial role.

As mdchachi points out, there are plenty of other first-world countries, including my own (and your?) home country of the United States, whose administrations are just as if not far more scary despite being democratically elected.

Your response I nothing but more ad hominems! You ignore all my points, keep pretending that I don't know the more or of Japan is purely ceremonial, and continue to cast aspersions about my motives as if you can read my mind, and have the gall to hide me as getting personal and defensive when I call you out for it! How dare you misrepresent my words! I never said Japan was Orwellian, I said the practice of hereditary rule was! I'm well aware of the flaws of western electoral democracies like the USA, which is why I'm a right-libertarian. The American government and all governments, including Japan, should either become nightwatchman states or be phased out. Big government cause big problems. I'm glad your bowing out, I didn't ask this question or start this thread to be insulted and judged!

 

[Tigerstein978]

He didn't accuse you of anything. He stated his opinion that you seem clueless.

Now, if that is what matters, one could argue that putting people in power via the democratic system is not a reliable way to elect people of character.
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Why? You haven't offered anything to support this view beyond a simple opinion.

Did you even read what I wrote?! I brought up the tyranny of Charles I and how his execution deterred anyone else from trying to reestablish absolute monarchy in the UK. Besides that, WWII in the pacific should be enough reason why the imperial system should have severe restrictions. I also mentioned that having a ruler who has absolutley no say in the affairs of his country is absurd. Saying that I have an agenda and don't know that the Japanese monarchy is purely ceremonial and insinuating that me not living or planning to live in Japan means I can't comment on it is definitely an insult!