Working for Eikaiwa in the sticks

My daughters wanted to go to ivy league in the USA it costs around 50.000 dollars per year each.
High maintenance eh? I won't be bringing my kid/s up to aspire to belong to elitist institutions. But if they do end up wanting to go to expensive universities, they'll have to get scholarships, it's up to them.


Don't lump me with him. I have given you more facts than opinion, by the way.
Sorry Glenski, you have been helpful, and I have taken what you've said on board, although with a healthy pinch of salt.
 
Hello JoeAndCo,
My advice is to follow your dream.

Dotanbatan, all your advice was relevant and I appreciate your positivity, it's rare on these boards. I agree, we should take our time before jumping in head first, and access to school is definitely something to factor in heavily.
 
Ishibai's income is practically a JREF meme by now; he seems incapable of participating in a thread without dragging it in by the heels. Pay it no mind.

There are lots of gaijins living out their gaijin dreams doing (what may seem to others) quirky things in quirky places. You just don't hear about them because they don't have a big net presence.

My only concern for you, and which I already touched upon briefly, is that you not become one of the many long-term gaijin husbands who found out to his regret that he absolutely hates eikaiwa yet through not having learned the language sufficiently is trapped in it. If you're good at it and you enjoy it, it can be great. If you don't enjoy it, it can be utterly miserable.

You mention you have other plans as well. I would just encourage you to develop them, to aggressively build your Japanese skills, and to not neglect Japanese literacy. No single thing will be a more positive influence on your quality of life and ability to function independently than learning to read.

By the way, people bringing up points you'd rather not hear or asking questions that try to make sure you're carefully analyzing your own plan is not us failing to be "positive". Cheerleading rah-rah crap is "positive", but not terribly useful. We're engaging you in serious discussion about YOUR life and trying to take your plans, questions, and concerns at least as seriously as you are. That we are engaging you in a serious manner is the way we are "positive" toward you.
 
Mr Cash, spot on as usual. Point taken re positivity, but "can't do" talk without problem solving is just unhealthy.
I'm totally with you on the language side, I foresee the first few years being mostly devoted to that to be honest.
"Aggressive" is a good way of putting it, that is very useful advice. If I'm to carve out a fulfilling life I need to engage... question: how did you "aggressively" pick up the language?
 
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Mr Cash, spot on as usual. Point taken re positivity, but "can't do" talk without problem solving is just unhealthy.

Think of it as devil's advocate.

I'm totally with you on the language side, I foresee the first few years being mostly devoted to that to be honest.
"Aggressive" is a good way of putting it, that is very useful advice. If I'm to carve out a fulfilling life I need to engage... question: how did you "aggressively" pick up the language?

I put myself in the same situation that countless millions of immigrants throughout history have been in...one where the rent and the groceries depended on learning and using the language. Japan makes it too easy for the English-speaking foreigner not to learn the language otherwise.
 
I resent that. My children worked hard and were pushed by their teachers to go to ivy league colleges. I didn't mind where they went, it was their choice. I am a good enough parent to allow my children to live out their dreams and allow them to reach for the skies. They will now have a good chance to marry into a wealthy family, due to the netowrking they made at college and furthermore if they do decide to work they will be able to get a decent job.
I feel sorry for the children of people like yourself in that I am sure your children will be just as happy as mine, but due to your lack of ambition, they will not have the opportunities that mine have. For instance due to the fact that you are not into the rat race as you call it means you children will have to get a scholarship to go to university. It is very difficult, as a university professor I have children in my class who are on scholarship. You cannot believe the stress they go through throughout their university life to maintain their GPA. They do not enjoy their university life due to the pressures of that.
As an Arab, we believe we should do the best thing for our children. What you are doing is not, you are doing what your heart desires and instead of waiting for delayed gratification you want it now. 39 is the time those kind of things happen, when I was in my early 40s I went through a similar mid-life kind of crisis. So, I moved country and got a better job. I advise you to do the same. What will happen to your children if you bring them up in small town Japan? The will be 100% culturally Japanese due to their schooling and you will find it difficult to find any of your gaijinness in them at all. They will have trouble speaking English. When they hit 18 and want to go to university, if there isn't one near your house how will you pay the 1million per year fees, plus about another 2 million for the apartment and living costs? on a low salary. You will have to say "sorry, but you can't go to university, go and get a job at the local car factory or kappa sushi". Unfortunately that is the reality.

Mike Cash:

My income was relevant to the discussion and when it is relevant I bring it up as a support strategy.
 
If the English speaking parents offer their language to the children during the critical early years, the children will have no problem speaking English.

I went to the top rated school for my program of study, one which admits less than 5% of applicants, and I went on a full ride scholarship. I enjoyed my college career just fine.
 
they will not have the opportunities that mine have
and neither will your children have the opportunities that mine will.

As an Arab, we believe we should do the best thing for our children.
Do you think that is exclusive to Arabs? You also obviously believe your conception of "the best thing" is the one and only. You my friend are arrogant and ignorant.

The will be 100% culturally Japanese due to their schooling and you will find it difficult to find any of your gaijinness in them at all.
My children will be brought up by their parents, not by their school.

They will have trouble speaking English
Again, this is pure conjecture, and not the experience of anyone I know.

What you are missing my friend is that we have different VALUES. Your comment about wanting your children to marry into rich families speaks volumes about who YOU are.
 
My kids are culturally 100% Japanese. I wasn't aware there was supposed to be something wrong with that....
 
Mr Cash, spot on as usual. Point taken re positivity, but "can't do" talk without problem solving is just unhealthy.
Uh, says who? Is that supposed to be a backhanded slap in my face now? You can't say "point taken", and then contradict yourself with the "unhealthy" (?) remark.

C'mon, Joe. I point out caveats, and I have given you advice. Maybe not on everything, but at 39 do you really want people to tell you how to do everything? We don't know you at all, and all we can respond to is the scant information we read from these threads.

Give us some credit here for at least giving you a heads up on some potential problems. After all, maybe there aren't solutions to some of them! I work 10 hours a day plus several hours a night catching up on many academic matters. Coming here to give advice or caveats or both is just an altruistic lark. If you aren't here with the knowledge that many of us have, I think it's unwise to snipe at our responses.
 
Uh, says who? Is that supposed to be a backhanded slap in my face now? You can't say "point taken", and then contradict yourself with the "unhealthy" (?) remark.

C'mon, Joe. I point out caveats, and I have given you advice. Maybe not on everything, but at 39 do you really want people to tell you how to do everything? We don't know you at all, and all we can respond to is the scant information we read from these threads.

Give us some credit here for at least giving you a heads up on some potential problems. After all, maybe there aren't solutions to some of them! I work 10 hours a day plus several hours a night catching up on many academic matters. Coming here to give advice or caveats or both is just an altruistic lark. If you aren't here with the knowledge that many of us have, I think it's unwise to snipe at our responses.

Seriously, no backhanded slap, it was a pretty open-handed slap. I took Mr Cash's dressing down and I stand by my "unhealthy" remark (in both senses), in that if one is just being a downer without providing solutions, then one is just being a downer..
As I said, I appreciate your advice and have taken it on board, with a pinch of salt. Is that so offensive? Please, let's be friends.
 
It wasn't my intent to dress you down. I was just trying to clarify our motives. Glenski and I often come across as good-cop/bad-cop...except when we come across as bad-cop/bad-cop.
 
OP
The difference between my children and yours is that although both will have had different experiences, my children have an advantage. If they so wish they can become hippies and live the "good live" that I am sure you are aspiring them to have. Eating and growing your own organic However they will also have the chance to marry and hang around with the social elite, attend garden parties and hopefully marry with someone in the skull and bones or other such elite circles. They have a choice, and I have given them that. You on the other hand will have limited their opportunity by not working hard enough. If your children want to do what mine have done and have experienced, they cannot due to the selfish choices you have made. It is one thing to chose to live on the fringes of society, but forcing your children to do the same is totally unacceptable in my view.

Mr Cash,

Your kids are culturally Japanese and if you are happy with that, then it is fine. But you need to all remember that I was in Japan and lived there for 20 years. My friends are all in their 50s and 60s now and I can tell you how their lives have gone.
One is divorced, his wife got sick of speaking to him in English and he now lives in another country and says he doesn't understand his children as they are 100% culturally Japanese. He is not happy about that.
An other is not allowed to see his children due to the custody laws. He is an alcoholic now his kids regard him as a hen na gaijin and want nothing to do with him.
Another is in his 50s and his Japanese wife will never have sex with him anymore, he has his own eikaiwa and working with his wife has put a strain on their relationship. All these guys say their children cannot speak English well enough and there is a big cultural gap due to them being educated in Japan.

I feel that you are different than me in the fact you were more of an immigrant due to your lack of education (I am not saying this as a negative and this is an assumption based on your job which is a truck driver, I am assuming and maybe wrongly so that one becomes a truck driver since one lacks the formal academic qualifications to do other things) and this is why you have assimilated into the culture and language better than most and that is due to necessity. I on the other hand always live in Japan as an expat and did not try to assimilate, I feel the OP will fall into the latter category such as my 3 friends above, of that of the expat as he is 39 and has been married to a Japanese for 15 years, yet cannot speak Japanese. He has visited Japan multiple times, but yet has not learned the languge. Thus moving to inaka and having 100% culturally Japanese children will not work for him 20 years on.
 
talk about arrogant... sitting on internet forums dreaming of being "elite"... stroll on
I'm disengaging from this conversation, you lost me at skull and bones....
 
Joe, Mike, others,
Ignore ishibai. The reason why is obvious.

As for the pinch of salt comment, heck no, I don't take offense at that! :) That's a very healthy realistic way of looking at anyone's advice. Perhaps this thread needs to get back on track with your specific questions. I sense it's beginning to diverge, as often happens with ishibai's involvement.
 
The user ishibai has been infracted and banned from this thread. I encourage anyone participating in this discussion *not to reply* to his post, but to stay on topic, which is "eikawa in the sticks". Thank you!
 
Yep, this thread went south...However, it has helped me reach a few conclusions.
1) Despite everything, I do still want to teach English, but not long term. I could build a long term career and probably be quite comfortable doing it, but I want to push myself out of that bubble. I would say 5 years at most.
2) I have a lot of respect for Mr. Cash's 'integrate or die' philosophy
3) I need to aggressively get my Japanese up to speed, get involved in the community, and build up non-English related biz.
3) There seems to be general consensus that doing the CELTA is unnecessary. However, doing an online TEFL certificate, reading books and watching videos would help to prepare me in terms of knowing the lingo, the form, lesson plans etc. Also, having a certificate may improve my chances.
4) I prob won't get Eikaiwa work till March/April so should start hustling for private teaching as soon as we hit the ground.
5) Eikaiwa work is shoddy and may be hard to find. In fact Glenski, you paint a pretty grim picture of my chances as a 39yo Australian with nothing going for myself but a spouse visa... actually I'm considering using my British passport for the spouse visa this time. Being a 39yo Brit with a spouse visa might have the edge?! Opinions?
6) I shouldn't live TOO far from a big city, within 1 hour on a train, for various reasons inc. work, school etc
7) I should perhaps consider renting a house for a while rather than being in a hurry to dive in straight away.
8) I should look at alternative ways of buying property, like auctions, and should also explore grants and gov schemes that I may be able to access

Ummm, there's more, but that's enough for now
 
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Do you have any skills you could make use of in freelance/remote working type positions? The spouse visa gives you more flexibility there, and location would become less of an issue as long as you had a decent internet connection.
 
Joe--your numbered list there looks great.

Just another brick in the wall showing that you are a solid person and will probably succeed regardless.
 
Consider tutoring privately for Japanese clients in Brisbane or Gold Coast for a while to get a feel for it. I see you've done tutoring before, so you should know basically what to expect, but tutoring privately for Japanese students or adults will give you worthwhile experience for your move to Japan - and may even open some other doors for you. I note that initially you were thinking about joining an eikaiwa. If you have some prior experience and the right attitude about it, you could skip the low-paying and fairly tedious eikaiwa part of your plan altogether and start immediately building a private business tutoring students. You will not have to suffer the poor wages, the travel hassles, or the vulnerabilities of being a dispatch teacher. Other plusses are; the flexibility and the potential for higher wages and tax benefits. Doing this may also make it easier for you to stay active in the music industry, which I would view as an investment into your future (although I do realize it may not offer the same sort of immediate stability that an eikaiwa school/agent might offer).

I don't think your passport has any relevance in your case. The UK passport gives you no particular advantage over the Australian one.
 
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Joe--your numbered list there looks great.

Just another brick in the wall showing that you are a solid person and will probably succeed regardless.
Thanks John, a pity there's two number 3's!

Consider tutoring privately for Japanese clients in Brisbane or Gold Coast for a while to get a feel for it. I see you've done tutoring before, so you should know basically what to expect, but tutoring privately for Japanese students or adults will give you worthwhile experience for your move to Japan - and may even open some other doors for you. I note that initially you were thinking about joining an eikaiwa. If you have some prior experience and the right attitude about it, you could skip the low-paying and fairly tedious eikaiwa part of your plan altogether and start immediately building a private business tutoring students. You will not have to suffer the poor wages, the travel hassles, or the vulnerabilities of being a dispatch teacher. On the plus side is the flexibility and the potential for higher wages and tax benefits. Doing this may also make it easier for you to stay active in the music industry, which I would view as an investment into your future (although I do realize it may not offer the same sort of immediate stability that an eikaiwa school/agent might offer).

Great advice, gives me an idea...I'm heading back to Adelaide in 10 days and will have a couple of months there before coming to Japan. I think I will offer free tutoring to Japanese uni exchange students, I have a contact in the exchange office. I also have a friend who teaches ESL to exchange students, but have a feeling she's about to have a baby so is probably off work.
 
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5) Eikaiwa work is shoddy and may be hard to find. In fact Glenski, you paint a pretty grim picture of my chances as a 39yo Australian with nothing going for myself but a spouse visa... actually I'm considering using my British passport for the spouse visa this time. Being a 39yo Brit with a spouse visa might have the edge?! Opinions?
In short, nope.

With a more lengthy reply, we first have to realize that American English is regarded more highly by more people. I will not argue whether it really should be. Just keep this opinion of Japanese in mind. At best, you'll be given equal regard by locals. I couldn't say whether people in any particular region of the country feels more strongly towards either English. Also, are you saying you have both British and Aussie passports? If so, it's eventually going to get out, so then what are you going to do? Just be honest about yourself.

As for grim, yup. Look at it in reverse. Say a Spanish national, or Taiwanese, or Russian, etc. were to emigrate to Australia. Same age and circumstances as you. How do you think people in the boonies of Oz would take to such a person as a bona fide teacher of their home language, especially with scant ability to communicate business concerns in English in order to attract customers and deal with students? (This analogy is a bit unfair because not necessarily all of those languages are considered strong candidates by Australians as a necessary second language, and because Australians have a different mindset than Japanese, but it's a working proposal you should mull over.)

I think I will offer free tutoring to Japanese uni exchange students
Not an entirely bad idea, but please keep something in mind. The students who go abroad usually have far higher language learning motivation and level of starting English than you will encounter here for the most part. Plus, if they are uni age, there is a world of difference between their emotional and social skills compared to younger ones here. I mention younger ones because if you set up in a remote area, you won't necessarily be able to pick and choose your customers by age, and lots of parents here want to start their kids very, very young in eikaiwa.

Majestic offered this:
If you have some prior experience and the right attitude about it, you could skip the low-paying and fairly tedious eikaiwa part of your plan altogether and start immediately building a private business tutoring students.
Yes, and if you do, I strongly suggest that you formulate a sound business plan first! Leaping into opening your doors at home to teaching at the kitchen table and planning little more than that is inviting problems. There are just as many details to assemble as in creating a restaurant biz from scratch. Too many to mention here, but consider:
  • exactly where you would teach (home? Ok, which room is best? decorate it appropriately, too. Outside home? Ok, what is actually available in rural Japan? A community center? City hall? What rent will you have to pay for it?) At least in a city setting, you may have a central hotspot where people can access easily.
  • What textbooks do you think are optimal? Textbooks plural.
  • Length of lessons and series of lessons, teaching style, your attire, etc.
  • Types of students you will accept (and not)
  • Materials needed beyond textbooks (board/monitor screen, chalk/pens, tapes/CDs/DVDs, furniture for more than one student, posters, etc.)
  • Payment plan (monthly? weekly? in advance?) and refund policy (for disappointed customers or absences)
  • Advertising methods, locations, and costs.
  • Taxes

Majestic also wrote:
Doing this may also make it easier for you to stay active in the music industry
I have not looked back on this thread, but if this is truly where you plan to go for long-term work, have you determined how you will do that (or even search for open doors) while living far from most people? I find this one to be very hard to fathom, but I won't criticize much further (constructively, mind you) because it's not my field. I suspect that like most non-teaching careers, your language skills in Japanese will be a big necessity just to get your foot in the door.

Go to gaijinpot.com and look at some of the blog links on the front page. I have not examined them, but their titles look promising. Here's an internal link from one: The Japan Venture Show
You might also want to see what Terrie Lloyd has to offer your situation on his Daijob.com - Looking for jobs in Japan? Want to work in Japan? website. He has excellent expertise in setting up businesses here, and he has many concise pieces of advice online at that site.
 
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Same age and circumstances as you. How do you think people in the boonies of Oz would take to such a person as a bona fide teacher of their home language
Quite honestly, I don't think it would be a problem, in Aus or anywhere else I've been to in the world.... but admittedly Japan is unique. However, I truly don't think I'll have a problem passing as a bona fide English teacher if I put the work in. I will also put a lot of thought into how I present and market myself, and I am a young 39, both in looks and attitude. Maybe my confidence is naive, but I think I can pull it off.

I strongly suggest that you formulate a sound business plan first! Leaping into opening your doors at home to teaching at the kitchen table and planning little more than that is inviting problems.
Sound advice. Thanks for breaking it down for me, I will look long and hard into all those issue and start putting a business plan together. Regarding textbooks, any advice on which ones to familiarise myself with? The big ones.

I suspect that like most non-teaching careers, your language skills in Japanese will be a big necessity just to get your foot in the door.
Re: music biz work, that all comes from UK. However it is unreliable, done on spec, and if successful takes ages to pay. Despite this, it is something I want to keep doing in the background as my quarterly royalty payments are sometimes a nice surprise.

Also, thanks for those links, will go through later.
 
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