Why do most Japanese women sound like they are talking to babies?

Gpugou said:

When did I say only intelligence is the factor?
Claims to have critical thinking skills, uses straw-man argument fallacy.

Click to expand...

Essentially right here:

Gpugou said:

Are there any studies that show there is a significant innate biological inferiority of women compared to men?" As it turns out, there are no innate differences in intelligence betweem men and women, and any areas where one on average does better than the other are not significant differences, and usually there is an area where they do worse to balance it out. So the studies done don't show any significant correlation between sexes and intelligence or areas of intelligence. Yet the higher intelligence requiring fields in Japan are occupied overwhelmingly by men. This is not due to a biological factor, and therefore must be due to a human-made system or concept. Culture is the best fit for this.

Click to expand...

You stated intelligence is not biologically based, therefore the difference in jobs is not biologically based.

Do you read what you write?

Also, in what way is asking you a question making a straw man argument?

I'm sitting here wondering where you guys are encountering "most" Japanese women talking like that. I've only ever known one who talked that way.

By way of contrast, last night I was listening to Episode 5 of the Surprisingly Awesome podcast and was stunned to hear a 14 year old American girl who vocally could pass for forty,

Surprisingly Awesome – Gimlet Media

Mike Cash said:

I'm sitting here wondering where you guys are encountering "most" Japanese women talking like that. I've only ever known one who talked that way.

Click to expand...

I don't know either, I think the poster in question is really just someone who has a solution they wish to impose and is searching for a problem on which to impose it.

Gpugou said:

In the U.S., a strong woman is seen as super sexy

Click to expand...

My first thought on this is that they are labeled a butch or a *****. I've never seen a strong woman respected in U.S. culture. I'm trying to think about it... only ever in porn. Outside of porn, they are hacked down

nahadef said:

My first thought on this is that they are labeled a butch or a *****. I've never seen a strong woman respected in U.S. culture. I'm trying to think about it... only ever in porn. Outside of porn, they are hacked down

Click to expand...

Really? I don't watch much TV or movies, but I consistently see strong, empowered women portrayed in a positive light when I do.

I can tell you several, if you like. Lawyers, politicians, CIA type agents, sports figures, etc.

WonkoTheSane said:

Really? I don't watch much TV or movies, but I consistently see strong, empowered women portrayed in a positive light when I do.

I can tell you several, if you like. Lawyers, politicians, CIA type agents, sports figures, etc.

Click to expand...

Go for it, top 5 'super sexy' strong women. I suppose you can see a sexy spy type in a movie or show sometimes. Usually in Western media strength in a woman is not portrayed as sexy.

nahadef said:

Go for it, top 5 'super sexy' strong women. I suppose you can see a sexy spy type in a movie or show sometimes. Usually in Western media strength in a woman is not portrayed as sexy.

Click to expand...

I can't give you a top 5, I don't give much of a damn about media, but I can certainly give you 5 examples just from my memory of things I've watched.

Erin Brockovich

Lara Croft

Aeon Flux

The Silence of the lambs agent

Leela from Futurama

I say top five just to show that it takes time to think of it because it's uncommon. If I say top five white leading men, nobody has difficulty with that. If I say top five leading Asian men, the clock starts ticking. Likewise, top five strong sexy females is not an easy thing, compared to top five sexy females.

I have to disagree with most there. Brockovich and Starling are played by attractive actresses (because there is no room in the industry for 'character actresses', just character actors), but not portrayed as sexy (and Brockovich is portrayed kind of abrasively from what I remember of the movie 20 years back), while Lara Croft is definitely a male fantasy, not a female one... They've only begun to tone things back with her in recent years. Croft was the lighting rod of criticism of the gaming industry for a decade or more. Indiana Jones never did his stunts in a tank top with his butt facing the camera. Aeon Flux is on the line for me, but i only ever saw the anime, not the movie. She's a little grotesque in the anime, and I doubt Charlise Theron was grotesque. Leela was created to be strong and sexy, I can agree with that one.

Of course, every single one of those products was created by men. I'd have gone towards material that women created where the women can be sexy on their own terms, instead of satisfying a man's definition of sexy, but there's not much of that which is even near mainstream. Sex and the City? (which most men hate anyway) Even Wonder Woman, which will be big around the world with the movie this summer and is a strong, intelligent, beautiful but not overly sexualized character, she was created by a polygamist with a bondage fetish so he could write scenarios of her being tied up. America is evolving, but mainly through women's criticism, not because most men find strength sexy (and look no further than the "I want a Japanese girlfriend" threads here, where Western men dream of a stereotypical passive partner).

I still don't think 'strong is sexy' is anywhere near default in the West. Actually, it's only in the past decades anything resembling that has appeared. You only have to read a few interviews with actresses to know the stereotypes they're forced to live down to, or read interviews with actually powerful women to know the hatred they get. Or look at the past American election.

Just to spin this round to the actual topic, Japanese women have this cutesy attitude pushed on them from birth, basically, or from pre-school. And of course there is a world of difference between Japanese women, I know just from the hundreds I've encountered teaching. But if a Japanese woman is going to make it in front of a camera, for the most part, they need to play the game, which is being a stereotype. America is ahead of Japan in showing diverse and occasionally strong women... but not by much. It's about 30 years ahead or so, give or take the awakening of American feminism.

nahadef said:

I say top five just to show that it takes time to think of it because it's uncommon. If I say top five white leading men, nobody has difficulty with that. If I say top five leading Asian men, the clock starts ticking. Likewise, top five strong sexy females is not an easy thing, compared to top five sexy females.

I have to disagree with most there. Brockovich and Starling are played by attractive actresses (because there is no room in the industry for 'character actresses', just character actors), but not portrayed as sexy (and Brockovich is portrayed kind of abrasively from what I remember of the movie 20 years back), while Lara Croft is definitely a male fantasy, not a female one... They've only begun to tone things back with her in recent years. Croft was the lighting rod of criticism of the gaming industry for a decade or more. Indiana Jones never did his stunts in a tank top with his butt facing the camera. Aeon Flux is on the line for me, but i only ever saw the anime, not the movie. She's a little grotesque in the anime, and I doubt Charlise Theron was grotesque. Leela was created to be strong and sexy, I can agree with that one.

Click to expand...

I guess the fact that these are entirely off the top of my head, posted immediately upon reading your post contradicts your "they're hard to think of" narrative.

You calling Julia Roberts' character in Erin Brockovich abrasive, whereas I call her sexy makes me think that instead of society seeing strong women as butch or ***** (as you said) it's you. Perhaps you should look into what you're seeing when you see a strong woman in film, I can assure you I saw something different.

I'll remind you of what you said:

nahadef said:

I've never seen a strong woman respected in U.S. culture.

Click to expand...

This is what I disagreed with, do you still stand by it?

Though I'm beginning to wonder if you stated it because when you see a strong woman you see something different than I do and the lack of respect you think you see is really just a reflection of your own level of respect. Perhaps it's a difference of perception and attitude towards women. If so, I honestly encourage you to do some soul searching.

As an actual live woman, this thread is the most depressing thing I've seen all week. Wonko has reached new heights of ridiculous irony and condescension. I know someone who needs to spend less time boasting about his critical thinking skills and lecturing others and more time actually listening to what women think of their own representation. Not that all the other posters are much better.

Lara Croft and her teensy weensy hot pants as an example of a strong female character in 2017 hahahahaha I have to laugh or I'll cry.

madphysicist said:

Lara Croft and her teensy weensy hot pants as an example of a strong female character in 2017 hahahahaha I have to laugh or I'll cry.

Click to expand...

Yeah no kidding. Especially since Tomb Raider came out 16 years ago.
Now we have Major (Ghost in the Shell) and Wonder Woman. Things are much different now.

WonkoTheSane said:

I guess the fact that these are entirely off the top of my head, posted immediately upon reading your post contradicts your "they're hard to think of" narrative.

You calling Julia Roberts' character in Erin Brockovich abrasive, whereas I call her sexy makes me think that instead of society seeing strong women as butch or ***** (as you said) it's you. Perhaps you should look into what you're seeing when you see a strong woman in film, I can assure you I saw something different.

I'll remind you of what you said:



This is what I disagreed with, do you still stand by it?

Though I'm beginning to wonder if you stated it because when you see a strong woman you see something different than I do and the lack of respect you think you see is really just a reflection of your own level of respect. Perhaps it's a difference of perception and attitude towards women. If so, I honestly encourage you to do some soul searching.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I'll stick by it. Claiming Leela from Futurama is respected in American culture is specious at best. Futurama was an ultra-cult show. Even Lara Croft was pretty niche.

I love strong women, personally. I'm a total sucker for them, and I married one. But the women I respect in my personal life are pretty far removed from anything I ever see in mass-media. Do you really want me to do some soul searching over my memory of Aeon Flux and The Silence of the Lambs?

nahadef said:

I love strong women, personally.

Click to expand...

Methinks thou doth protest too much.

Where are the equal number of strong female leads in your comics?

I've found most people who spout hyperbole are projecting and it's easy to find where they are practicing what they preach against.

madphysicist said:

Lara Croft and her teensy weensy hot pants as an example of a strong female character in 2017 hahahahaha I have to laugh or I'll cry.

Click to expand...

So a woman has to dress a certain way in order for her other qualities to be valid?

If she wears sexy clothes she can't be strong, smart, capable?

Do you also feel men cannot have these traits if they dress in a sexy way?

WonkoTheSane said:

Methinks thou doth protest too much.

Where are the equal number of strong female leads in your comics?

I've found most people who spout hyperbole are projecting and it's easy to find where they are practicing what they preach against.

Click to expand...

In the 90% of my comics that are autobiography comics? Huh? You know I'm a guy, right?
In the last four fictional comics I wrote, there were female leads, rounded characters, since I don't go for that 'strong' stuff in writing. I don't write strong male leads either, I can't relate.

So you think the strong sexy woman is common in the West. I don't.

I merely disagree with your point, no reason to try to assassinate my personal character.

madphysicist said:

As an actual live woman, this thread is the most depressing thing I've seen all week. Wonko has reached new heights of ridiculous irony and condescension. I know someone who needs to spend less time boasting about his critical thinking skills and lecturing others and more time actually listening to what women think of their own representation. Not that all the other posters are much better.

Lara Croft and her teensy weensy hot pants as an example of a strong female character in 2017 hahahahaha I have to laugh or I'll cry.

Click to expand...

nahadef said:

In the 90% of my comics that are autobiography comics? Huh? You know I'm a guy, right?
In the last four fictional comics I wrote, there were female leads, rounded characters, since I don't go for that 'strong' stuff in writing. I don't write strong male leads either, I can't relate.

So you think the strong sexy woman is common in the West. I don't.

I merely disagree with your point, no reason to try to assassinate my personal character.

Click to expand...

I never claimed they were common or uncommon, I merely said that your claim that there are absolutely no strong women who have been respected in American culture disagrees with my experience. When I questioned whether you really believed this, you doubled down that you have absolutely never seen a strong woman respected in American culture. Not a single one.

Then, when you characterized a strong, sexy woman character as abrasive as opposed to sexy I recommended that you might want to examine your viewpoint. I still think so. When you look at Julia Roberts in that board room going off on those executives and then telling them the water she gave them was from the water sources they contaminated and you see an abrasive butch or a ***** (in your words) I think there's something very skewed about your viewpoint. Personally, I found that sexy as hell.

Finally, when you railed against society and content creators for their lack of putting forward the kind of female characters you feel should be better represented, I asked what you, as a content creator, are doing yourself to put these characters forward.

Quite frankly, if you can't be bothered to do what you're asking others to do, I can't very well take your moral outrage very seriously. If I said everyone should be vegetarians while I sat around eating BBQ, I'm not sure that saying "It's different for me because I like eating BBQ and you can't really BBQ vegetables very easily." would give anyone reason to respect my virtue signals about vegetarianism.

You can't claim the high road unless you walk it.

I look forward to you using your art to manifest the ideals you claim to hold.

My moral outrage? I think you completely misunderstand my words. I'll move on now, because this is a stupid squabble.

'Never' was a bit of hyperbole on my part, retroactively switch that to 'pretty much never'. Hopefully that chills you out a bit.

nahadef said:

My first thought on this is that they are labeled a butch or a *****. I've never seen a strong woman respected in U.S. culture. I'm trying to think about it... only ever in porn. Outside of porn, they are hacked down

Click to expand...

If you truly believe this, you should be morally outraged. It would be reprehensible. I would be disappointed in any human being who wouldn't be.

Do you really feel that if this were an honest assessment it wouldn't deserve outrage?

I'm glad it sounds like you don't actually believe it, though. There are real problems in the world but we can't address them as long as we're constructing windmills at which to tilt.

Since you now say you feel there are some, can you please give examples so I know what you consider a strong, empowered, sexy woman respected in American culture?

Hopefully you continue to 'retroactively switch' your words until your expressions of views become consistent with the physical actions you take in your art since from what I've seen of your art it appears to be where your honesty really shines through.

I asked my wife the thread-title question, and she didn't pause a moment before saying, "Because you act like one."

Sometimes it takes a woman to put us where we belong.

mad pierrot said:

I really, really hate when they do that.

It drives me NUTS. Women should not sound like muppet babies. What the heck is cute about that? God, one of the people I work with talks like that all the time. I want to smack her in the face so bad.

Click to expand...

I hate it when girls try to imitate that in general. Its now become a whole trend especially between "weaboos" and people who try to imitate what they see on Japanese media. Its so annoying. Its ok in anime but anywhere else is a straight no. Most girls don't talk like that naturally anyways.

In Japan they do though. Anime may be more exaggerated but for whatever reason most women speak in a high pitch. And you'll see bilingual girls change to a higher register when they speak Japanese. It's quite interesting. Or maybe annoying for some.

I'd say this is typical speech pattern. Does it sound high? The commercial after this one though has a lady speaking in a lower register.

And the first commercial here has both exaggerated anime voice (the cat) and the typical girls voice.

I agree that the schoolgirls in the ad are talking in a normal register, and the first ad in the second set of CMs - well, I switched it off as quickly as I could! And if ears could bleed as easily as noses, some of the narrators' voices on Japanese TV would make mine bleed. The women squeak and the men let out this constipated bellow. As an added observation, some Japanese men are also prone to putting on high-pitched voices when being polite, particularly in customer service.

Were you impressed by the appearance of Justin Bieber? Knowing your musical tastes I'm guessing not.

My dudes, even I speak in a higher register when I speak Japanese. Almost all my teachers were female, so maybe that's partially to blame as I based my speech patterns on theirs? But then again I think I just have an unfortunately high voice in general. Face for radio, voice for photos!

I gotta admit I was surprised to see old ghettocities threads risen from the grave. I wonder how that weirdo has fared in the past 15 years.