What happened to the flag of my country?

Mike Cash · 21 May 2006

If the intention is merely to show a person's physical location on the globe, then perhaps it would be best to indicate that with text, rather than with flags.

I know there are people these days for whom national identity means nothing, who consider themselves "citizens of the world", and who see flags as nothing more than quaint anachronisms whose only appropriate use is as decorative accessories.

But there are still those in the world who identify strongly with the flag of their home, for whom the symbolism still means something, for whom sight of their flag properly displayed causes the heart to swell with pride and a tear to come to the eye. Disrespect their flag? You may as well slap their mothers. The level of personal insult wouldn't be terribly different.

The flag graphics may be small, but this issue is a large one.

bossel · 21 May 2006

CC1 said:
With that said, I also agree that if you want to display a flag that is not currently available, then load it as your avatar. If Thomas begins allowing every type of flag things will get rather complicated.

Yeah, we would end up with thousands & thousands of flags to choose from. Better to go to a specialised website & choose one to upload as your avatar.

Maciamo · 21 May 2006

bossel said:
Yeah, we would end up with thousands & thousands of flags to choose from. Better to go to a specialised website & choose one to upload as your avatar.

Or what we could do is have two categories of location flag. The first one for the sovereign state, and the other one for the regional state, territory or overseas dependency, but only for the countries with more than "x" (to determien) members. This way, one could choose the US flag AND their state/territory flag. Or we just do like for Eupedia and attach flags together so that if you choose, say "Portugal", the EU flag is automatically next to it. So when someones chooses "California", the US flag would be automatically next to it. This way there is only one option to choose and flags are both national and regional. In Europe, we would need 3 levels for federal countries though (e.g. EU > Germany > Bavaria).

MajideSaiaku · 21 May 2006

But the US flag represents an actual nation, the EU flag represents a fun project for politicians bored with their own nations government.

Anyhow moving on to the point i actually wanted to make, to back up Mike's statement about national flags, if the soccer world cup is anything to go by (i hate calling it soccer!...i do it just for you my American cousins!) then flags are still VERY much powerful national symbols. The flag represents the entire nation, it represents the land, the people, the ideals and heartbeat of the nation, it represents the history, the present and the future, that is why a stupid peice of coloured fabric means something to people. Because Old glory or whatever might not mean much to a saudi or thai, but to an American, it may mean many things, it might mean everything or just a small thing, but to every American old glory means something.

If the flag tags are just purely for location, why not just use the location text bit and do away with flags?.

Hachiro · 21 May 2006

thomas said:
Mr Hachiro, I will give you a frank answer: no, I care less and less about it. I am contemplating about deleting that user field to save my time. If members really want to indicate their location, there's a separate field that allows them to do exactly that.

Sir,
Thank you for answering me. To me at least it seems to be a rather inane point and not that big of a deal.
I apologize if I made a mountain out of a mole hill. At least to me that is what it was after all.

but to every American old glory means something.

Yes that is probably true, but to other people throughout the world the US flag is a symbol of tyranny and opression, so what ever each poster or persons flag of choice may be it is safe to assume that certain flags bring about different emotions from each person.

I had hoped to raise the point that discriminating against one persons choice of "allegiance" should not be dictated or determined by the whim if the people that administer this message board. For such a board as this one is.

If I had my druthers there would be no flags what so ever, and would leave it to the member to make the choice to use their flag or symbol of choice within the limits of an avatar.

Thanks for listening.....have a good night/day where ever you may be.

ginyu · 22 May 2006

EU! EU!
i enjoy living in a fictional super-nation!
that austrian flag's so darn ugly

edit:

nurizeko said:
But the US flag represents an actual nation, the EU flag represents a fun project for politicians bored with their own nations government ...

omg! go and get some history books dude ☝

don't want to start a discussion here, but it's certainly more than that. it brings us peace for 60 years now. keep that in mind.

of course the EU has many issues and a big image problem, but don't play down it's achievements.

ez

DoctorP · 22 May 2006

Maciamo said:
Or what we could do is have two categories of location flag. The first one for the sovereign state, and the other one for the regional state, territory or overseas dependency, but only for the countries with more than "x" (to determien) members. This way, one could choose the US flag AND their state/territory flag. Or we just do like for Eupedia and attach flags together so that if you choose, say "Portugal", the EU flag is automatically next to it. So when someones chooses "California", the US flag would be automatically next to it. This way there is only one option to choose and flags are both national and regional. In Europe, we would need 3 levels for federal countries though (e.g. EU > Germany > Bavaria).

This would actually be a pretty good idea.

nurizeko said:
But the US flag represents an actual nation, the EU flag represents a fun project for politicians bored with their own nations government.

I fell out of my chair when I read this! OMG please keep it civil people!

Mike Cash · 22 May 2006

heliobacter said:
EU! EU!
it brings us peace for 60 years now. keep that in mind.

The presence of U.S. troops had nothing to do with Europe putting aside joyfully continuing to pursue its centuries-old pastime of conniving to slit each other's throats?

ginyu · 22 May 2006

Mike Cash said:
The presence of U.S. troops had nothing to do with Europe putting aside joyfully continuing to pursue its centuries-old pastime of conniving to slit each other's throats?

back then, the EU hasn't even existed.

i'm talking about the project, the will to collaborate and to put all those senseless feuds aside.

the project, that started as a trade agreement for war-critical ressources and evolved to what it is today (doesn't matter if one likes it or not)

for me IT IS the attempt to get over the past.

OF COURSE the U.S. intervention was the only possibility, but i don't get the point why to compare the problems europe had in 1945 with the problems the european union has today?

and btw, throat-slitting isn't an european speciality...

JimmySeal · 22 May 2006

OK. So if Puerto Rico doesn't have a flag, why do Hong Kong and Macau have flags? The choice of which places get flags and which don't seems to have no strong logic behind it. Maine and Nebraska are clearly subdivisions of a country, but many would argue that Puerto Rico is a nation in its own right, even if it is subject to some administrative controls of the US government. What exactly are the administrators trying to accomplish by taking away the P.R. flag? Puerto Rico is a country with its own characteristics. It has two official languages whereas the USA has one de-facto official language. So if the objective is to cast light on where people's perspectives are coming from, it would make sense to allow people to show that they are from Puerto Rico.

ArmandV · 22 May 2006

JimmySeal said:
Puerto Rico is a country with its own characteristics.

No, it is U.S. territory. It can become a state if the Congress gets off its butts.

Kakulin · 23 May 2006

JimmySeal said:
OK. So if Puerto Rico doesn't have a flag, why do Hong Kong and Macau have flags? The choice of which places get flags and which don't seems to have no strong logic behind it. Maine and Nebraska are clearly subdivisions of a country, but many would argue that Puerto Rico is a nation in its own right, even if it is subject to some administrative controls of the US government. What exactly are the administrators trying to accomplish by taking away the P.R. flag? Puerto Rico is a country with its own characteristics. It has two official languages whereas the USA has one de-facto official language. So if the objective is to cast light on where people's perspectives are coming from, it would make sense to allow people to show that they are from Puerto Rico.

Also I want to add that P.R. competes in the Olympics under it's own flag and with it's own teams. We don't team up with the USA like the 50 states do. We compete against them. The same goes for Miss Universe and all other beauty contests. Etc. etc.

Mike Cash · 23 May 2006

heliobacter said:
back then, the EU hasn't even existed.

Then word your thoughts more carefully.

You made it sound as though the EU made 60 years of peace possible. When in fact it was decades of peace that made the EU possible.

Mike Cash · 23 May 2006

ArmandV said:
No, it is U.S. territory. It can become a state if the Congress gets off its butts.

I seem to recall the people of Puerto Rico a few years ago elected to remain in their current status and not seek statehood.

Don't blame Congress. They can't force statehood on a territory/protectorate. The people of the area have to desire it and petition Congress for it. So far, that hasn't happened with Puerto Rico.

Maciamo · 23 May 2006

JimmySeal said:
Puerto Rico is a country with its own characteristics. It has two official languages whereas the USA has one de-facto official language. So if the objective is to cast light on where people's perspectives are coming from, it would make sense to allow people to show that they are from Puerto Rico.

You know I could say the same about states in Belgium. Flanders is Dutch speaking, Wallonia is French and German speaking, Brussels is French and Dutch speakin with English as a kind of lingua franca... Yet, there is only one flag for Belgium. Puerto Rico doesn't even have a parliament. Belgium has 7 (including the EU parliament, otherwise 6).

Maciamo · 23 May 2006

Mike Cash said:
You made it sound as though the EU made 60 years of peace possible. When in fact it was decades of peace that made the EU possible.

How could we really tell ? Hasn't the EU grown up during the Cold War ? Yet old foes are now EU members too. Maybe it's difficult for an American to grasp that the Cold War wasn't so "cold", when they lived so far away from the capitalist-communsit border (the Iron Curtain).

ginyu · 23 May 2006

Mike Cash said:
Then word your thoughts more carefully.
You made it sound as though the EU made 60 years of peace possible. When in fact it was decades of peace that made the EU possible.

you're right.
what i wanted to say was, that the european union is a product of europe's constructive collaboration during the last 60 years. and all its predecessors made the life possible, that people in europe are living today.

ArmandV · 23 May 2006

Mike Cash said:
I seem to recall the people of Puerto Rico a few years ago elected to remain in their current status and not seek statehood.
Don't blame Congress. They can't force statehood on a territory/protectorate. The people of the area have to desire it and petition Congress for it. So far, that hasn't happened with Puerto Rico.

You're right, I forgot about that part. I found this little goodie:

"In December 1998, the pro-Statehood government of Puerto Rico held another voter plebiscite on statehood. Puerto Rico窶冱 voters rejected statehood. This is the third rejection of statehood in the last seven years.

In January 2000, President Clinton proposed a fourth statehood vote in Puerto Rico."

I read that Puerto Ricans are about 40-40% split on the issue currently.

DoctorP · 23 May 2006

PR is on the same footing as Guam. Why would they want to become a state? They have all of the benefits without any of the burdens!

MajideSaiaku · 23 May 2006

EU-philes like to make it out as if the EU made Europe everything it is today, wrong.

The people of Europe made it was today, following the US example, that trade and economy is a better "battlefield" then rolling over your sons with tank-tracks crushing their skulls into the dirt.

The EU didnt make Europe peaceful, 2 horrible disgusting world wars in relative quick succession that robbed Europeans of their lives, even the survivors not having any peace, lead to 60 years peace, that and you know, the cold war stand-off, you less likely to start another continental power-struggle with the red terror poised to take Europe, simply put, we united against a common enemy.

And living closer to the Iron curtain just made it more real for us, but there definately wasnt any love between the two blocs, lots of fear suspicion, and a sense of invasion and doom looming over head.

The EU is the result of Europeans replacing war with trade and the general modern worlds insistance on protecting national sovreignties, not the other way round.
The EU still has a purpouse, but unfortunately too often its hijacked by people who, as shown on this thread, want to ruin all its good work with some stupid ideal of super-nation, and anyone with half a brain knows that wars are either thought for money, religion, or freedom, 3 basic reasons for war.

The last one will be a problem for Europe if it ever so much as attempts to take national sovreignty into a super-nation.

Anyhow, BACK ON TOPIC :O (sumimasen!) i reckon we could have a avatar gallery on ther forum full of flags and stuff, and lose the little flag icons, if people really wanna display their location, they got the text bit and a flag avatar in that case.

Mike Cash · 23 May 2006

Maciamo said:
How could we really tell ? Hasn't the EU grown up during the Cold War ? Yet old foes are now EU members too. Maybe it's difficult for an American to grasp that the Cold War wasn't so "cold", when they lived so far away from the capitalist-communsit border (the Iron Curtain).

Then substitute "lack of open hostilities" for the word "peace".

While we American children of the Cold War days didn't have to live with the possibility of waves and waves of tanks and troops suddenly spilling into our country, we were sitting on nuclear bullseyes and did worry about somebody deciding to put Mutually Assured Destruction to the test.

Kinsao · 23 May 2006

Wow. What a long debate.

I would like to have an England flag rather than UK, simply because I live in England so I feel that more accurately reflects my place of residence; England is after all a different place from Scotland, Ireland and Wales. =P But I don't feel that strongly about it... As someone said, there is always the 'Location' field.

Maciamo · 23 May 2006

Kinsao said:
Wow. What a long debate.
I would like to have an England flag rather than UK, simply because I live in England so I feel that more accurately reflects my place of residence; England is after all a different place from Scotland, Ireland and Wales. =P But I don't feel that strongly about it... As someone said, there is always the 'Location' field.

If Thomas agrees, I am in favour of restoring all the flags we had and adding new ones too. I also like accuracy. I like flags in general (not just mine ) and I think that having regional/state flags too would be a good way to learn about new flags as well. Here is a list of regional flags for Europe.

MajideSaiaku · 24 May 2006

I think flags are interesting to, what they represent, wh ya nation chose it, the history behind the flag.

Plus lots of pretty colours.

Minty · 24 May 2006

Maciamo said:
Yes, because you live in France, not Australia, and the flag is for the country of residence.

Well I would appreciate it if you inform me first before you do that. I know the flag in this forum indicates the place you live, but I have lived far longer in Australia than in France. My nationality is Australian, the flag confuses some people thinking you are a native of your flag, and sometimes it brings misunderstanding.

I actually prefer my nationality as my flag over my location, but I am not extremely strong about my opinion on this.:haihai:

What happened to the flag of my country?

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