Virginia Tech school shooting

[JimmySeal]

Judging from the fact that he moved to the US at age 8 and not sooner or later, and that his English was still pretty poor as a college senior, I highly suspect that the harrassment that shaped this kid almost surely took place in primary and secondary school. By the time he got to college, the situation was pretty much out of anyone's hands. They did try to get counseling for him, and beyond that, what can you do really? You can't assume somebody's going to go on a killing spree just because they're really creepy.

 

[Han Chan]

I have now seen parts of Cho's video "manifesto". He was obviously psychotic and paranoid. His paranoid ramblings suggests that he could even have been schizophrenic.

I once had a friend who became schizophrenic. In the beginning my friends and I meerely thought that she was depressed. However, gradually it bacame clear that she had at least three seperate personalities. One of her personalities, the one which most people knew, was quite nice. But I tell you: If you tried to confront her with the fact that she needed help, she would shift into a very scary person, threathening and suicidal at the same time.

Her parents did not take her condition serious so it took many months before she finally received help. When I met her a few years later when she was under medication, she said that she could remember that she sometimes thought that my friends and I looked liked wolwes ready to attack her.

Cho was very sick, but if no-one around him had any previous experience with psychotic persons, it is not so surprising that noone understood how serious his condition was.

 

[Elizabeth]

How about facing the real issue hands on. When people drive cars, that are a potentially dangerous item to the safety of others and that of the driver, a license is needed, how about creating a license for carrying a gun, I don't mean a permit and all, but going through a course to learn how to use the weapon and somewhere were qualified personnel can screen individuals if they are right to get such a license or not.

At the very least there should be universal registration and background checks for handgun sales. That is a proposal even the gun lobby can favor. Nothing more will be done on a federal level until the Democrats have a more comfortable majority in Congress. The roots for this were sewn in 1993 when they lost power for 12 years after passing the Brady Bill. And according to Pres Clinton, largely due to that vote. While average Americans have the Iraq War, economy and other things on their mind as well gun supporters can think of nothing but action threatening to "take away" their firearms. And believe me, they do remember...

 

[KirinMan]

At the very least there should be universal registration and background checks for handgun sales. QUOTE]

Sorry I'd take it a step further and outlaw the darn things all together. Background checks, while probably useful for the occasional felon or disturbed person, really would not stop or prevent anyone from waiting until they received their weapon before using it.

Stop all sales of handguns in the US now. Stop the sale of ammunition now.

Background checks while a noble idea, will not prevent this from happening again. Currently nothing can.

 

[DoctorP]

Universal registrations and background checks would not have stopped this ***** from doing what he did at VT.

 

[Elizabeth]

Universal registrations and background checks would not have stopped this ***** from doing what he did at VT.

Well, he had been declared "mentally ill" by a Virginia judge in 2005 and involuntarily admitted to a facility, evaluated only to be released so a check sure should have caught at least a half dozen warning signs.

 

[diceke]

Can anyone provide a link to the full-length video? Thanks.

He seems like a very narcissistic person, he staged the whole event just for his infantile attention seeking purpose. Pathetic.

 

[Nuala]

Can anyone provide a link to the full-length video? Thanks.
He seems like a very narcissistic person, he staged the whole event just for his infantile attention seeking purpose. Pathetic.

I'll look at everything a second time, but for the time being I don't think he was doing it to be famous. Had anyone paid attention to this kid they would realize how many warning signs he was sending out. People don't seem to understand how vicious american youth can be. It's become socially acceptable to bully people. The teachers I have encountered can hardly even recognize it now. They look to the victims of bullying as the people who should be punished. Imagine what that would do to someone who had become screwed up in the head after years of being picked on?
I doubt I will hear much about how people treated this kid like garbage. More so crap about how he was creepy, delusional, and psychotic. It's the same way I was treated by my goddamn peers.
I was made into the bad guy at my school. Not once was I treated like a human by the people harassing me. In addition to that, my peers would watch these other students mess with me and think their behavior was acceptable, even funny at times.
Everything about bullying has gone down hill since Columbine. I'm seriously disgusted. I actually thought I was the problem for quite some time, and that put me into a severe depression. Had it not been for a friend of mine opening my eyes, I would probably be dead right now.
No, I don't think murder is acceptable. What he did was terrible, and I am sorry for every one of the people who were shot by him.

 

[Sukotto]

Bullying aside,

People I know who have it and even a doc have told me that schizophrenia
usually develops, if it does, in the early 20s or so.
How does one know if one will develop it?
Being quiet and keeping to oneself doesn't mean anything.

 

[Pachipro]

I think it was pachipro who said that this couldn't be avoided and many of you have said this as well... pachipro was even listing the different possible scenarios that the killer here could have used to attack the school. He mentioned making bombs or using gasoline and so forth. I tend to disagree. It is not the same. Carrying out such other activities requires more planning, more effort, more conciousness, while buying a gun like you are buying milk can be done in a whim and then slowly simmer the thoughts and ideas of carrying out such a spree.

According to the latest reports, Cho has been planning this for some time. He even had to wait 30 days before he could buy the second gun. So he put alot of effort, planning, and conciousness into it before carrying it out.

Those of you who are for the right to bear arms and what not can deny it all you want, but let's face it using a gun is the easiest way to kill someone; I doubt this guy could have done this much havoc if he had a knife or had to use alternative methods...

Wrong. This was NOT the worst school massacre in US histors as the press would have you believe. Gun massacre yes. The worst school massacre in US history was in 1927, in Bath Township, Michigan on May 18, 1927 which killed 45 people with most of them being children. Please read it! It was not done by a guns, it was done by a bomb any by a man who lost it when the Township imposed such a high property tax that he lost his farm (taxes again!).

Therefore, as I have said time and time again, if a nut wants to cause a massacre he will, regardless of the availability of guns. They will find a way. If Cho couldn't get guns, he would've found another way as he was hell bent of killing as many people as he could. He probably would have killed many more if he had strategically placed bombs on campus, so please stop blaming the gun culture in the US for this massacre.

And I'm not going to accept the usual "you don't understand, this is an american thing, the right to bear arms and all".......yeah right.

If anyone wants to put the blame somewhere I suggest they "blame" the authors of the US Constitution, they are the one's who included the "right to bear arms" in it.

Well that shows a severe ignorance of the history of the USA and the reason for the second ammendment to the US constitution giving the people the right to keep and bear arms.

The reason the founding fathers gave us that right is because back then, and still today, people in England were forbidden to keep and bear arms as they might use them against the corrupt monarchy of ole' King George. As the common folk had no arms, they couldn't fight back against a corrupt government and the government could do as they damn well please and the hell with the people. The same thing was in force in Japan where the common folk could not have swords.

The US colonists did not want that to happen to them and fought a war against their mother country, England, as they knew of the corruption and the tyranny they could impose on an unarmed population (The forced tax on tea was the straw that broke the camel's back). They fought and won. A rag tag army against the most powerful Army in the world at the time! And the United States was born with more freedoms given to the populace than any other country in history then and now!

Afterwards, they gave the right to the common people to keep and bear arms should a government become corrupt, and a corrupt government would therefore, be a little more careful in imposing their will against the wishes of the people as the common folk could now fight back. Why do you think England and other countries, including Japan, still forbid the populace to have arms? For this very reason. An unarmed populace is defenseless against a corrupt government, or an invading Army for that matter.

But I am afraid the outrage of an ignorant populace to this deed will call for another look at this most important ammendment. However, if they try and repeal the second ammendment, I think there will be another war in this country that the government probably will not win in the long run. All one has to do is look to Iraq today to see that a rag tag militia can cause havoc and many deaths against another most powerful military in the world. In my opinion it will never succeed in the US if they try to take all the guns away. Too late for that. Besides, with over 250 million guns, and the ability to make IED's it will be damn near impossible.

Since this is the Japan forum just a little example. Japan had such a deep sword culture that society was even built upon it, some could argue, and when reforms came they forced a ban on it and it worked.

Thus they have the Gun and Sword Control Act or something of that nature. However, even in such a strict gun control country like Japan, the mayor of Nagasaki was killed the other day by gun. No matter what you say, you can never prevent killings by gun if the perpetrator is intent of using one for his deed, even in Japan.

 

[Han Chan]

I doubt I will hear much about how people treated this kid like garbage. More so crap about how he was creepy, delusional, and psychotic. It's the same way I was treated by my goddamn peers.

Dear Thor

I am quite convinced that Cho was psychotic. However, I also think that some of his agression comes from having been bullyied and abused (posibly sexually).

We are many who experienced bullying during our time in school. I was bullyied very badly, so I totally sympathize with you. Though we both went through a bad time, I guess none of us became violent killers because of that.

 

[Elizabeth]

According to the latest reports, Cho has been planning this for some time. He even had to wait 30 days before he could buy the second gun. So he put alot of effort, planning, and conciousness into it before carrying it out.

He could obviously have tried. On the other hand, dealing with a person as mentally unstable as Cho apparently was there would be much less chance of it succeeding as spectacularly. Same is true for children in other school shootings.

There would still be gun homicides in this country with a handgun ban. There just won't be 13,000 Americans dying from them every year.

 

[Pachipro]

There would still be gun homicides in this country with a handgun ban. There just won't be 13,000 Americans dying from them every year.

Quite true. Instead, in such a violent society as America, there would be 13,000 homocides from other means. If someone wants to kill, they will. If not by gun, then by other means like poison, knife, bomb, etc. etc. The problem goes much deeper than guns. Why can't most people understand that?

BTW I do not own, never have, and hopefully never will have to own a gun. But in the aftermath of Katrina, when the populace was terrorized by thugs who stole guns, I am giving second thought to at least having a shotgun on hand in order to protect my family in a time of disaster. For, like in New Orleans, there will be those who want want you have, including your food.

 

[Homerduff]

I saw the video to where he is making his statement of the murders + a video of his roommates describing him as a very silent guy who never said a word. He did weird things like stalking girls, but was never seen with another guy or girl. From what I can make of the movie, it seems like he does it because he is being bullied and he hates the rich people. But it seems like his roommates actually had a lot of patience with him and tried to get friends with him, but he just didnt let anyone get involved with his life. So im afraid he was just mentally a very ill person..

I also feel sorry for his family actually, I heard they are staying at a hospital because they are in shock..

 

[Nuala]

I saw the video to where he is making his statement of the murders + a video of his roommates describing him as a very silent guy who never said a word. He did weird things like stalking girls, but was never seen with another guy or girl. From what I can make of the movie, it seems like he does it because he is being bullied and he hates the rich people. But it seems like his roommates actually had a lot of patience with him and tried to get friends with him, but he just didnt let anyone get involved with his life. So im afraid he was just mentally a very ill person..
I also feel sorry for his family actually, I heard they are staying at a hospital because they are in shock..

After being bullied for awhile, you just stop caring about having friends and what not. That's just from my personal experience though.

 

[diceke]

I doubt I will hear much about how people treated this kid like garbage. More so crap about how he was creepy, delusional, and psychotic. It's the same way I was treated by my goddamn peers.
I was made into the bad guy at my school. Not once was I treated like a human by the people harassing me. In addition to that, my peers would watch these other students mess with me and think their behavior was acceptable, even funny at times.

He and you are not alone with this kind of bad experiences. But did the injustice turn you into a "Jesus Christ", or a "martyr", on a special mission to indiscriminately massacre people? Would you videotape yourself ranting against "rich kids", or pose for the camera, so everyone can watch you and admire you? To me, that's narcissism, a grandiose sense of self-importance. He got others involved in his delusion of grandeur.

 

[made of stone]

Quite true. Instead, in such a violent society as America, there would be 13,000 homocides from other means.

I think there's an awful lot to talk about here, and hopefully it might prove to be a discussion that helps us understand other nationalities' viewpoints a lot better.

For me though it's a bit early and emotive to get into this yet. I think there's a great risk of a knee-jerk on either side of the debate, which can further polarise opposite points of view.

Just mho.

 

[sabro]

Right now there are still families dealing with the shock and grief of the event. There are still students in the hospital recovering. There is still an investigation. All the names are trickling out to the media. Big important questions are still being asked about the incident.

The gun control debate can wait for another time and place.

 

[SushiShin]

Cho Seung-hui, this will be a name i will never forget, he is South-Korean guy and he is the guy who killed the 32 people. Now the motive is why does a guy who always been quite and friendly and never talked with other people suddenly a dangerous armed guy?? Simple: the guy had troubleshooting with the people who were on that school and he had problems with students of the same grade and same class. He was abandonned from the world, there was nobody who wanted to talk with this guy. He was lonely. Now this guy has inspiration too from many things like in a video that he made whil the first shooting was allready over he made a photostill where he was shown with a hammer this reminds us all of the movie Oldboy. I wish that people also remember this guy because after all we are people and we are brothers and sisters. It is pity that he did this very silly thing, blast everyone dead but yeah this always happens daily everywhere in the world. Now the guy murdered himself too, then nobody will discover what the real problem was
i feel so sorry for the murdered people and also for Cho Seung-hui who led a lonely life. im not defending this guy but im telling you this because i want that you all know why people become like this.

 

[KirinMan]

Afterwards, they gave the right to the common people to keep and bear arms should a government become corrupt, and a corrupt government would therefore, be a little more careful in imposing their will against the wishes of the people as the common folk could now fight back. Why do you think England and other countries, including Japan, still forbid the populace to have arms? For this very reason. An unarmed populace is defenseless against a corrupt government, or an invading Army for that matter.

Pachipro I know very well the reasoning behind the why, I learnt that in ES for cripes sake. (Meant to be taken as a joke here, I am pretty sure you were adding this to help clarify my statement to those that really don't know about the constitution.)

The point is though, American's have corrupted what the intent of what that particular clause of the constitution has written in it. So they are to "blame". American's abuse that piece of paper to twist whatever meaning they want out of it. I highly doubt that the author's had this shooting in mind when they created the amendment allowing ownership of weapons. I'll bet a million bucks if they had the foresight, they would have left it out, or at the least included background checks as well.

I could have missed it here, but noone have brought up anything about his family. Being from an Asian country I wonder how his parents dealt with the information that their child could potentially be mentally ill? Did they refuse to accept it? Did they even know? Were they proactive in trying to get help for their son? Or did they expect the school to take care of things for them?
If anyone has any information about this please share it.

 

[Sarapva]

However, I also think that some of his agression comes from having been bullyied and abused (posibly sexually).

I agree with this - I worked in a psychiatric hospital for a while, and one thing I learned there was that kids (and adults) who commit violent crimes are people who have been abused themselves. The plays Cho wrote seem to be screaming this out - it seems to me that the counselors must have seen this. He obviously needed help that he didn't get. And in elementary and high school when a person seems to be different or not on top of things, they're an obvious target for more abuse.

I was also bullied and teased in school, and I also thought it was my fault for not being more outgoing, but now I see it was just the "animal instinct" to attack the sick or weak. As humans we should get beyond this and reach out to someone who seems to need some help, or at the very least not attack them just because they're different or can't defend themselves. I can see how a person like Cho could have tolerated this until he couldn't tolerate it anymore. That would make anyone psychotic.

 

[sabro]

You know, if people are picking on you, bullying you, or calling you names, there are many things that you can do besides going on a shooting rampage. If you are hurting, get help. If you are ill, seek care. If you are depressed, find someone who can help you through it. If you are shy or lonely... again, you can do something about it. For all the mean, selfish, stuck up, bigotted, and rotten people in the world, there are others who will open up to you and talk to you, help you, guide you, befriend you... The positive people should be the ones you seek out. Positive influences in what kinds of movies, music and literature are also another way to cope. If you want to wallow in the abuse, isolate yourself in some dark, hellish pit and indulge in psychopathic revenge fantasies... then don't expect things to get better. You have to seek out the good in people.

 

[Anohito]

I haven't noticed that anyone in this thread has directly acknowledged it, but under Virginia law, it was not illegal for Cho to buy those guns because he was a resident alien (the fact that he withheld certain details that would have been inconvenient for him is another matter). I also haven't noticed that anyone has pointed out the prevailing right-wing reaction to this massacre. The Gun Cult and its useful idiots have been (figuratively) jumping up and down, screeching "See! See! More guns! More guns! People need more guns to defend themselves!" Yeah, right, college students need guns the way they need more booze. Hey, give them all guns and the next time there is a booze-fueled riot on some campus, they can all shoot themselves!!! Problem solved! Oy gevalt.

 

[DoctorP]

Actually many kids on the school shooting team stated that if they had only had a permit to carry a concealed weapon maybe a few less people would have died. I'm not sure that I agree with that though.

 

[KirinMan]

You know, if people are picking on you, bullying you, or calling you names, there are many things that you can do besides going on a shooting rampage. If you are hurting, get help. If you are ill, seek care. If you are depressed, find someone who can help you through it. If you are shy or lonely... again, you can do something about it. For all the mean, selfish, stuck up, bigotted, and rotten people in the world, there are others who will open up to you and talk to you, help you, guide you, befriend you... The positive people should be the ones you seek out. Positive influences in what kinds of movies, music and literature are also another way to cope. If you want to wallow in the abuse, isolate yourself in some dark, hellish pit and indulge in psychopathic revenge fantasies... then don't expect things to get better. You have to seek out the good in people.

Sabro it is a good point, yet I wonder how much an influence his upbrining had on him.

As everyone here pretty much knows the Asian cultures have a different view towards issues of feelings and openness. Was he able to discuss his problems with his family? Was he truly alone?

I hope that some mental health care professional takes the time to research his family history and upbringing, in the hope of being able to help other immmigrants from Asian cultures like his understand, identify and deal with mental health issues if they occur within a family.

So many of us here experience at one time or another culture shock from the huge differences we find in the Asian culture, I wonder if this was a case of culture shock, or had its roots in it.

I wrote previously that I only blame the shooter, not the school or the authorities. Now as more information comes out, I can not point the blame on anyone. It's too easy to point fingers and to somehow assuage our feelings that other's were responsible as well. I think this was a mentally sick person, and I feel sorry for all the victims, including him as well.

I am pretty sure that there is quite a bit of soul searching going on right now within many people. I hope they can find peace as well.