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Virginia Tech school shooting

I'm incredibly sad to hear another shooting happened. 2006 had to have been the worst year for shootings since Columbine, and now this massacre. You know what's really sad? It could have been prevented. Metal detectors and other security measures could have been taken. The security response to the first killings could have been handled much better too. I'm sickened by this attack.

My school took down the metal detectors about two years after Columbine occured. My question is, why did it ever become acceptable to take them down? For ****'s sake this could happen anywhere.

I think gun laws should be more restrictive. I don't know care how badly people need their guns, this **** is ridiculous.
 
I'm just so very very sad about all this, I'm dumbstruck, no idea what to say or how I should (or even could) express it.

All meaningless death is a tragedy, pure and simple. I'm heartbroken...been in a daze all day. I've tried to take my mind off it by focusing on the positive here at Jref - welcoming the new members and such - but at the end of the day, it all boils back to this, doesn't it? Think i'll log off pretty soon...

Two things today really affected me.

First was that I hope, pray, and wish that all folk affected by the terrible weather in the US are safe (our dear Uncle not least in my thoughts), and the second, which I became aware of much later, is that i wish I could take back what happened there in Virginia...also where our friends are (both met and unmet.)

I don't know what to say, other than that my prayers will be extra-long tonight...
 
It's heartwarming to know that something that happened in this state (Virginia), even though tragic, is felt by people around the world. Thanks for all your thoughts and condolences. I'm glad no one you knew was hurt, Kerie_na_me. I feel for the families and friends of the people who were, though. Let's also take a lesson from the Amish who, after having a tragic shooting at one of their one-room schoolhouses, took the gunman's family into their hearts and forgave him and them. The boy who did this also has a family who must be grieving and shocked.
 
I'm sick of hearing on the news how people want the school President to step down. They did everything that they could have done in this situation. As far as they knew it was a murder/suicide issue and was done after the first shooting...no one knew what was going to happen next.

As bad as I feel for the families who lost someone, I really feel bad for school staff too. They are being made out to be the bad guys in this.
 
As has been said above, Outlaw guns and only outlaws will have guns. Many countries have outlawed the sale of firearms and their crime went up. Austrailia is one example. After they outlawed the private ownership of guns, crime (not necessarily gun crime) went up substantially as the criminals were now not afraid to rob someone or rob their house as they were pretty sure their victim wouldn't have a gun. Also, the criminal needn't have a gun to commit his crime. A knife or screwdriver will do well as long as he's sure his intended victim is probably not armed.

With the millions and millions of guns already sold in America it will impossible to ban them. Besides, it is guaranteed by the second ammendment. Also, in cities and states that allow you to have firearms in your home, crime has significantly decreased. In fact, I believe there are even a few cities here in the US that request or require all households to have firearms and that the citizens can legally have them on their person. And in all cases the crime in those areas has dwindled to almost nothing. Why? Because criminals are afraid of being shot that's why. It's only when the criminal is pretty sure that their intended victim doesn't have a firearm do they strike.

Again, as in any country, when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns! Guns are forbidden in Japan, but the Yakuza can easily obtain them. Obeika even mentioned that the mayor of Kawasaki was shot yesterday. Same in England and other countries that do not allow firearms. Many cities in the US forbid the private ownership of guns and crime is way up.

I lived for nearly two years in the U.S.; A suburb called Kennesaw in northern Atlanta, Georgia. When I first arrived there, nearly 5 years ago, my dad told me that Kennesaw and another city somewhere in Michigan were the only places in the whole country where having a gun was compulsory for all household owners, but only if you are the owner of the house. Surprisingly, it is the second safest city, I don't remember if in the state of Gerogia or in the U.S. But still, pretty safe. I mean, this suburb was not loaded with money, I mean, it was your typical American suburb, nice homes, but nothing out of the ordinary.

So, Pachipro, you definitely have a point here. That would be a controversial decision, when i first read this, I was wowed, but then I thought it over and it is a smart thing ou suggest here, eh.

Mauricio
 
To the people who think that they should have cancelled classes after the first incident - how would that have shown any foresight? What were they going to do, send the kids to go hide in their dorm rooms indefinitely? The first killings took place in the dorms. They can't coat an entire college campus with police at a moment's notice, so I fail to see how cancelling classes would have been a logical call. It only looks like it would have been effective now in hindsight.
 
I saw an interview being done by Diane Sawyer (don't get me started on her!) where she was interviewing the school president. He did an outstanding job at answering all of the assinine questions thrown at him.

One thing that he said (paraphrasing) is that they have 9,000 kids living on campus, another 15,000 coming on campus from outside, another 3,000 faculity, and various guests, deliveries, etc... There is no way that they could lock down the school as it is like a small town.

I agree with the action that was taken and I think that when the 2nd call came in that they did an outstanding job of responding.
 
With the millions and millions of guns already sold in America it will impossible to ban them. Besides, it is guaranteed by the second ammendment. Also, in cities and states that allow you to have firearms in your home, crime has significantly decreased. In fact, I believe there are even a few cities here in the US that request or require all households to have firearms and that the citizens can legally have them on their person. And in all cases the crime in those areas has dwindled to almost nothing. Why? Because criminals are afraid of being shot that's why. It's only when the criminal is pretty sure that their intended victim doesn't have a firearm do they strike.
Because I practically live on the border, Michigan is the only state allowing a concealed weapons permit I have any knowledge of. But following years of steep declines in the late 1990's, the overall rate of murder with a handgun has actually shown steady increases statewide since the legislation was passed in 2001. Assault with a firearm I believe also fell for one or two years but since about 2003, since I moved here, has leveled back out again to pre-carry numbers. Thankfully, the effect overall, though, has been pretty ho-hum or unremarkable. In other words, there hasn't been a dramatic rise in accidents, suicides, crimes of passion or self defense attempts "gone bad" which do more harm to the victim than the perpetrator.

Most violent crimes are not random or stranger on stranger anyway, and there is a good chance they know whether their victim has a firearm from the outset. There will never be a nationwide mandate that every citizen carry a gun because it is simply unenforceable and the effort put into background checks, training in use etc isn't worth the effort considering crime rates have been falling for 20 years even without these measures.
 
I saw an interview being done by Diane Sawyer (don't get me started on her!) where she was interviewing the school president. He did an outstanding job at answering all of the assinine questions thrown at him.
One thing that he said (paraphrasing) is that they have 9,000 kids living on campus, another 15,000 coming on campus from outside, another 3,000 faculity, and various guests, deliveries, etc... There is no way that they could lock down the school as it is like a small town.
I agree with the action that was taken and I think that when the 2nd call came in that they did an outstanding job of responding.

Great point, but as you know the "media" is always going to try and find a scapegoat when something like this occurs.

They want to "justify" their own existence as so called journalists and "investigative" reporting.

Because I practically live on the border, Michigan is the only state allowing a concealed weapons permit I have any knowledge of.

Just to let you know there are more locations than just Michigan.

Carrying concealed weapon
 
Great point, but as you know the "media" is always going to try and find a scapegoat when something like this occurs.
They want to "justify" their own existence as so called journalists and "investigative" reporting.


The only scapegoat needed is the little idiot who killed 32 people and then was so weak that he had to kill himself!

But...I understand what you are saying.
 
It's heartwarming to know that something that happened in this state (Virginia), even though tragic, is felt by people around the world. Thanks for all your thoughts and condolences. I'm glad no one you knew was hurt, Kerie_na_me. I feel for the families and friends of the people who were, though. Let's also take a lesson from the Amish who, after having a tragic shooting at one of their one-room schoolhouses, took the gunman's family into their hearts and forgave him and them. The boy who did this also has a family who must be grieving and shocked.
No one deserves a tragedy whether it their community is in a peaceful location or harsh and difficult environment. I think the reaction would have been the same basically anywhere so the particular place isn't really that important.
 
Will this massacre cause a rise in hate crimes against Koreans? It seems that Koreans are worried about it.
 
Sad sad sad.

Equally sad is the fact that there seems to be no consensus on how to prevent this in the future.
 
Elizabeth said:
Most violent crimes are not random or stranger on stranger anyway, and there is a good chance they know whether their victim has a firearm from the outset. There will never be a nationwide mandate that every citizen carry a gun because it is simply unenforceable and the effort put into background checks, training in use etc isn't worth the effort considering crime rates have been falling for 20 years even without these measures.
You post some very valid points Elizabeth and I would be hard pressed to disagree with you.

CC1 said:
I'm sick of hearing on the news how people want the school President to step down. They did everything that they could have done in this situation. As far as they knew it was a murder/suicide issue and was done after the first shooting...no one knew what was going to happen next.

As bad as I feel for the families who lost someone, I really feel bad for school staff too. They are being made out to be the bad guys in this.
Can't agree more CC1. The sad part is that, unfortunatley, they WILL be made the scape goat. In America there ALWAYS has to be someone to blame other than the perpetrator and the media will ensure that someone is to blame. You watch. The president of the University will step down as well as maybe the chief of security at the campus when, in fact, they did all that was humanly possible given the circumstances!

If they completely shut down the school after the first two murders and nothing else happened they would be blamed for "jumping to conclusions" and "Going to extremes" in cancelling classes, locking down the school and otherwise disrupting the life of the students. Damned if you do and damned if you don't as the saying goes.

In America there is no accountability anymore as someone, or some thing, must be blamed. In the end, the entire school population may be blamed for failure to make friends with this lone nut or to help him seek counseling. His creative writing teacher may even be blamed and forced to resign for giving him private lessons when everyone was afraid of him!

Now, even if a firecracker goes off near a school there will be a complete lockdown as there will be no more "educated guesses" based on experience. How sad. America has a strange way recently of jumping to extremes.

The fact is NO ONE could have prevented this, now or another one in the future, as no none can predict the actions of an insane person.


@ maushan3: I thought you might be from Atlanta or have lived there with your Falcons avatar. Thanks for your post.
 
If they completely shut down the school after the first two murders and nothing else happened they would be blamed for "jumping to conclusions" and "Going to extremes" in cancelling classes, locking down the school and otherwise disrupting the life of the students. Damned if you do and damned if you don't as the saying goes.
Actually it is not at all unusual for schools to close for credible bomb threats, other health/safety hazards or even bad weather for heaven's sake. A few universities made that decision yesterday in light of the massacre. Even a single murder, to me, seems like one of the most serious things that can afflict a campus.

I'd certainly stay at home if there was a killing next door and a suspect on the loose. A workplace would most likely also have shut down although the logistical difficulty of coordinating the same response on the space and administrative complexity of a campus is probably why it wasn't in this case....
 
Can't agree more CC1. The sad part is that, unfortunatley, they WILL be made the scape goat. In America there ALWAYS has to be someone to blame other than the perpetrator and the media will ensure that someone is to blame. You watch. The president of the University will step down as well as maybe the chief of security at the campus when, in fact, they did all that was humanly possible given the circumstances!

I doubt that the school president will step down. He told GMA that he would not, and then the night of the mourning he received a standing ovation from the student body and those who attended. He is well respected within that community. Hell, he might be able to run for office later based upon his reaction to this incident and the media frenzy.
 
As more details come out....

it will show the "systems" in many areas failed and this guy fell through way to many cracks. There will be plenty of blame to go around and many who deserve blame for what happened. When all is said and done, lets hope something beyond finger pointing is done and changes are made to prevent future tragedies like this. It sure sounds like this one could have been stopped when you hear all the facts & details.

Uncle Frank

:eek:
 
Here it goes again...now the blame and the focus will shift towards the killer and the school management missing the real issue. Even in the columbine shooting the same thing was done, let's look magnify the troubled minds of the killers to avoid the real issue. This is guy isn't the only one who's got problems in the US or other countries in the world. There are countless paranoid,delusional, mentally unstable individuals in this world who may have it against everyone. However, such school shootings and rampages, are only happening in the US. For me there is one simply reason....the availability of guns, the loose gun control, and the glorification of the gun culture in the US. I've been told that young boy scouts are taught how to fire guns since early adolescence. As to why that is necessary I will never understand.

How about facing the real issue hands on. When people drive cars, that are a potentially dangerous item to the safety of others and that of the driver, a license is needed, how about creating a license for carrying a gun, I don't mean a permit and all, but going through a course to learn how to use the weapon and somewhere were qualified personnel can screen individuals if they are right to get such a license or not. I think it was pachipro who said that this couldn't be avoided and many of you have said this as well... pachipro was even listing the different possible scenarios that the killer here could have used to attack the school. He mentioned making bombs or using gasoline and so forth. I tend to disagree. It is not the same. Carrying out such other activities requires more planning, more effort, more conciousness, while buying a gun like you are buying milk can be done in a whim and then slowly simmer the thoughts and ideas of carrying out such a spree. I think also this has become a learned behavior. There are so many precedents that now every other possible future school shooter has already a written scenario to follow.

Those of you who are for the right to bear arms and what not can deny it all you want, but let's face it using a gun is the easiest way to kill someone; I doubt this guy could have done this much havoc if he had a knife or had to use alternative methods...

There is no political or societal will in the US to make amends to this problem; something could have been done, had to be done, after columbine, and now 32 young people close to age are gone. It's easy to say that oh this is horrible, oh this is sad, but unless you are affected directly by this tragedy you can never know the real pain and sadness. To have young people be killed like this needlessly, people with hope, dreams, potential, important to others and so forth, is just such an incredible for lack of better terms "waste"

In Italy a couple of months ago a police commissioner was killed during a riot after a soccer game. Right away stadiums were closed for months until they became safe, some will remained closed for months to come, new laws were put in place to curb such violence; real action was taken. Making memorials and having flags flying half mast doesn't suffice. It's really a dishonor to the memory of those fallen in this incident to still do nothing about this issue. I don't like to jab at the US but I mean when the country's vice president shoots someone in the face during a hunting trip and all talk show hosts make jokes, fun, and light of the situation what is to be expected? Perhaps the men in power and other influential media prevalent personalties should start to give the right example by making campaigns for careful gun use...or no gun use at all and such things like that.

And I'm not going to accept the usual "you don't understand, this is an american thing, the right to bear arms and all".......yeah right. Since this is the Japan forum just a little example. Japan had such a deep sword culture that society was even built upon it, some could argue, and when reforms came they forced a ban on it and it worked. I'm not saying to ban guns and all, but something strong can be done, there is just no will.
 
I've heard the guy was an English major;
so writing plays or screen plays would be a normal thing.

That they are reported to have violent content is also not that big a deal in and of itself.
Someone like Quentin Tarentino has a lot of really violent movies, but that
doesn't mean he goes out and kills people. Or horror movie writers. etc.
 
it will show the "systems" in many areas failed and this guy fell through way to many cracks. There will be plenty of blame to go around and many who deserve blame for what happened. :eek:

The blame in my opinion lies with the shooter and none other. He killed the other kids, not the school. Not every disturbed person goes out and kills people.

I do not accept the reasoning that the school somehow had a responsibility in this matter. I also disagree that there are "many" who deserve blame. In a way I could say the blame lies with every person that lives in America, including you Uncle Frank. I hope you understand my point there.

Schools are not prisons, yet the reaction to this shooting is that the school had to do more to "protect" it students. Hindsight is always 20/20. It is unreasonable to expect anyone or any facility to be able to protect people from random acts of violence like this. People even get killed in prisons.
Spreading the "blame" around makes it easier for victims and people on the sidelines to accept this insanity.

If anyone wants to put the blame somewhere I suggest they "blame" the authors of the US Constitution, they are the one's who included the "right to bear arms" in it.
 
The blame in my opinion lies with the shooter and none other.


i agree with this, however.

it is not the end of the story.
what conditions lead to people loosing it like this?

like wars, typically do not occur in a historic vaccum.
and Columbine, with the ***** jerk wads who constantly harrassed the shooters there, people do not live in social isolation.

while every person and condition is unique,
they are bound to repeat if we do not learn from them.
 
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