Violent anti-Japanese demonstration in Beijing, China

iris said:

There were no country that did not commit murders and cruelties to unarmed people, and Japan is not an exception. Japanese army also murdered unjustified and maltreated the captivated soldier and the civilian of the enemy country.
[...]
It is also written, "Many people in Nanjin were murderd by Japanese Army".
Do you think it's "white-washed" textbook?

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Thanks for your attempt at translating.

Saying that Japan was no exception is quite a white-wash to me. It's true that atrocities were committed on all sides. But Japan started the war & led a war of aggression. What's more, the amount of suffering caused in the name of Japan was exceptional.

Saying that many people were murdered in Nanjing is not really white-washing (if the term murdered is actually used in Japanese), but it's not really telling the full truth, either.

China Allows More Protests in Shanghai against Japan

Another man, a 23-year-old barber in central Shanghai, where several shops catering to Japanese were destroyed, said he had nothing against Japan or Japanese people. "People are taking part in this march because they aren't allowed to protest anything else," he said. "In your country, people are allowed to demonstrate freely, so something like this probably wouldn't attract many people. Here we are never given a chance to protest, so everyone wants to see it for himself, to be there."

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Elizabeth said:

It's the same on Japanese news. They might not be representative, but the demonstrators interviewed for these shows come off more as simple-minded fools than serious-minded politicos or even the slightest bit angry. "I will attend the demonstration" or "I'm going to protest Japan" like they were out for a picnic in the countryside. If this was truly about the textbook/history issue don't you think there would be people there who actually experienced it ? At least the parents generation if not before.... :?

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Exactly....what I saw on the news was nothing more than a bunch of chinese kids trying to act cool and be part of the "group".What seems to amaze me is that now they start shouting anti-Japanese things, and complain..something they didn't do in the past.So I really think the government is pushing some people to let Japan know they can't be fooled with.

"People are taking part in this march because they aren't allowed to protest anything else," he said. "In your country, people are allowed to demonstrate freely, so something like this probably wouldn't attract many people. Here we are never given a chance to protest, so everyone wants to see it for himself, to be there."

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Yes this could be another thing....didn't u see the exitement on their faces when they could protest and wouldn't be stopped by the police? Just like they had some kind of power/influence.Or at least that's what the gov. lets them think !

iris said:

Hello, I'm new to this forum.
I guess almost all member here did'nt read the textbook written by so-called "right-wingers".
But you can read the book on the web. (in japanese)
http://www.tsukurukai.com/05_rekisi_text/rekisitext_index.html

for example, in P288...
ﾂ［ﾂ静ｭ窶侏??堙娯?敕淒停ぎﾂ］ﾂ ﾂ静ｭ窶侏??堙??堙債，窶伉ｽ窶堋ｭ窶堙娯?｢ﾂｺﾅｽm窶堋ｪ窶督ｽ窶堙ｰ窶版ｽ窶堙??堋ｷﾂ。窶堋ｵ窶堋ｩ窶堋ｵﾂ，ﾂ静ｭ窶侏??堙娯?ｹ]ﾂ青ｵﾅｽﾃ停?堙債，窶｢ﾂ絶?倪?｢窶堋ｵ窶堋ｽ窶｢ﾂｺ窶堋ｾ窶堋ｯ窶堙??堙坂?堙遺?堋｢ﾂ。窶堙樞?堋ｵ窶堙ｫ窶堙?窶堙≫?堙??堙?窶佚･窶堋ｫ窶堙遺?敕ｭﾅ?Q窶堙ｰﾅｽﾃｳ窶堋ｯ窶堙ｩ窶堙娯?堙債，ﾋ?ｪ窶敕岩?堙個人ﾂ々窶堙??堋?窶堙ｩﾂ。窶敕ｱ窶｢ﾂ絶?倪?｢窶堙娯?督ｯﾅ?ﾃ板人窶堙｢ﾂ青ｳﾅｽﾂｮ窶堙可降窶｢ﾅ｡窶堋ｵ窶堋ｽ窶｢ﾃ溪?板ｸ窶堙娯?伉ｽ窶堋ｭ窶堋ｪﾂ，ﾂ青ｶ窶督ｽ窶堙｢ﾂ催?ﾅｽY窶堙ｰ窶堋､窶堙寂?堙ｭ窶堙ｪ窶堙ｩﾂ。窶堙懌?堋ｽﾂ，ﾂ坂?伉催帚?邸ﾂ湘｣窶ｹﾃ問?堋ｶ窶堙ｧ窶堙ｪ窶堙??堋｢窶堙ｩ窶愿?狸ﾆ湛窶堙遺?堙??堙固ｽc窶ｹs窶堙遺?｢ﾂｺﾅ?ﾃｭ窶堙ｰﾅｽg窶廃窶堋ｷ窶堙ｩﾂ坂?倪?堙?窶伉ｶﾂ催昶?堋ｷ窶堙ｩﾂ。窶堋ｱ窶堙ｪ窶堋ｪﾂ，ﾂ静ｭ窶侏??堙娯?敕淒ｽS窶堙闇陳ｻﾅｽﾃ?窶堙??堋?窶堙ｩﾂ。
ﾂ 窶堋ｱ窶堙ｪ窶堙懌?堙??堙娯?氾ｰﾅｽj窶堙?，ﾂ静ｭ窶侏??堙ｰ窶堋ｵ窶堙?，窶敕ｱ窶｢ﾂ絶?倪?｢窶堙個人ﾂ々窶堙俄?佚寂?堋ｷ窶堙ｩﾅｽEﾅ?Q窶堙｢窶ｹs窶佚停?堙ｰ窶堋｢窶堙≫?堋ｳ窶堋｢窶堋ｨ窶堋ｩ窶堋ｳ窶堙遺?堋ｩ窶堙≫?堋ｽﾂ坂?倪?堙坂?堙遺?堋ｭﾂ，窶愿ｺ窶怒窶堙?窶氾｡ﾅ?O窶堙??堙坂?堙遺?堋｢ﾂ。窶愿ｺ窶怒ﾅ坦窶堙?ﾂ，ﾂ静ｭ窶侏??吮??窶堙可進ﾂ攻窶堋ｵ窶堋ｽ窶冢ﾋ?ｦ窶堙?，窶｢ﾃ溪?板ｸ窶堙??堙遺?堙≫?堋ｽ窶廨ﾂ坂?倪?堙娯?｢ﾂｺﾅｽm窶堙｢窶督ｯﾅ?ﾃ板人窶堙俄?佚寂?堋ｵ窶堙?，窶｢s窶懌?凪?堙闇ｽEﾅ?Q窶堙｢窶ｹs窶佚停?堙ｰﾂ行窶堙≫?堋ｽﾂ。
"Tragedy of war"
In the war, a lot of soldiers die. However, the victim of the war is not only a soldier.
General people receive the biggest damage. Many of unarmed civilians and captive who surrenders formally are deprived of the life and the property.
Moreover, the country that uses cruel arms such as poisonous gases forbidden on International Law exists, too. This is a miserable reality of war.
There were no country that did not commit murders and cruelties to unarmed people, and Japan is not an exception. Japanese army also murdered unjustified and maltreated the captivated soldier and the civilian of the enemy country.
http://www.tsukurukai.com/05_rekisi_text/rekisi_pagefile/rekisi_text_44_col09.html
(sorry for my poor translation)

...and whole story of War in China and WWII is below.
http://www.tsukurukai.com/05_rekisi_text/rekisi_pagefile/rekisi_text_38_66.html
http://www.tsukurukai.com/05_rekisi_text/rekisi_pagefile/rekisi_text_39_67.html
http://www.tsukurukai.com/05_rekisi_text/rekisi_pagefile/rekisi_text_40_68.html
http://www.tsukurukai.com/05_rekisi_text/rekisi_pagefile/rekisi_text_41_69.html
http://www.tsukurukai.com/05_rekisi_text/rekisi_pagefile/rekisi_text_43_71.html
It is also written, "Many people in Nanjin were murderd by Japanese Army".
Do you think it's "white-washed" textbook?

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it is definitely a whitewashed textbook
if you read more carefully, you might notice that the textbook tries to blame China for starting the war,
i can give you some examples later.

Japan Consulate in Shenyang Pelted with Bottles, Eggs

I think that's what it is. Remember those times where you're sick and have to stay home from school? You're feeling horrible but you're glad you can stay home anyways?

bossel said:

On the other hand, if Chinese & Koreans actually would see Japan come to terms with its past, perhaps they wouldn't even demand more formal apologies.

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China's Persistent Japan Syndrome

What if the Japanese government apologised profusely and unconditionally for all the terrible things Japan did to China during the war? What if all Japanese textbooks described those wartime atrocities - the Nanking massacre, comfort women and so on - in full? What if Japan were to build lots of museums and memorials about Japanese war crimes committed in China, Korea, and south-east Asia? And what if Japan renounced all claims to disputed islands in the China Sea? Would this stop the Chinese from throwing stones at the Japanese embassy, or molesting Japanese students, or demonstrating against Japan's bid for United Nations Security Council membership? Probably not.

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Nicely said.

江泽民

名無し said:

CCP might not be a solid monolithic entity.

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State-Run Chinese Paper Lashes Anti-Japan Protests as "Evil Plot"

The newspaper, whose editorials reflect the orders of Shanghai's Communist Party leadership, did not identify the people behind the supposed plot or say how it operated. But the ambiguous wording hinted at one of two possibilities: that the protests were hijacked by antigovernment groups, or that elements in the ruling party used them to wage an internal political struggle.

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What if the Japanese government apologised profusely and unconditionally for all the terrible things Japan did to China during the war? What if all Japanese textbooks described those wartime atrocities - the Nanking massacre, comfort women and so on - in full? What if Japan were to build lots of museums and memorials about Japanese war crimes committed in China, Korea, and south-east Asia? And what if Japan renounced all claims to disputed islands in the China Sea? Would this stop the Chinese from throwing stones at the Japanese embassy, or molesting Japanese students, or demonstrating against Japan's bid for United Nations Security Council membership? Probably not.

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That's only a supposition or a personal opinion. My views are that if Japan does all these things and China doesn't stop its criticism, the international community will be able to criticise China and defend Japan. However, at present, the opposite is happening justly because Japan has done these things and the comparison with Germany (which did these things) is obvious. Japan seems as unwilling to act under the pretext that they think it won't change anything for China. Well I can tell you that if Germany had not tried hard to redeem itself, it would never be a respected EU member nowadays.

The Japanese don't care much about following Germany's path, because anyway it has the support from the US and other Western government haven't pressure Japan to deal with its past, as they are not directly concerned. So Japan only has to deal with critcisim from less developed and less democratic nations, which is easy to ignore. Let's wait a few more decades and see once other Asian countries (esp. China) will have become as developed as Japan... But as I said at that time it will be too late. Even if China doesn't attack Japan, it will do all it can to destroy Japan economically, or better take control of all main Japanese comapnies, then relay Japan to a political backwaters. The Chinese will then look down on the Japanese, and when these latter will have grown poor, the Chinese will accuse them of coming to China to steal Chinese people's jobs and commit more crimes than Chinese people.

Is that what the Japanese want ? Of course they can't imagine this happening. 15 years ago, many Japanese thought that Japan was intrisicly superior to other nation of the world, and that Japan was set to dominate the world economy. But I see Japan's GDP per capita falling behind that of other countries year after year. Foreign companies start buying up the once mighty Japanese corporations (Nissan, Mitsubishi Motors, Mazda...). China will dominate Japan one day, whether we want it or not. Personally I wouldn't forgive Japan for its attitude toward China in the last decades (but in fact I don't really care as I am not Chinese or East Asian). So why should the Chinese be more forgiveful to their close neighbour once they become strong enough to bully Japan ? Am I the only pro-Japanese person to worry about Japan's future ?

窶督ｼ窶督ｳ窶堋ｵ said:

State-Run Chinese Paper Lashes Anti-Japan Protests as "Evil Plot"

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People outside CCP,especially HK meida and Americans always make up news about power struggle for Chinese leadership. Well... some are true, but the majority of them are just to improve their sales.

For American media, they often derive information from those Chinese scholars in America, or HK based organizations.

Maciamo, Japan can apologize. South Korea, another neighbor which suffered atrocities almost 30 years longer than Japan, recieved compensation and an apology by HRH Emperor Akihito. Japan has only not apologized to the People's Republic. Every other nation has at least recieved an apology. Of course, China has recieved ambigous ones, but its not satisfied (will it ever?)

Don't panic

Similarity between the Japanese language and the Fu-jian (southern China) dialect indicates that:

Anthropologically speaking, the Japanese may have originated from the south of China and may have at a time been brought to what's called Japan today by sea winds.

In this sense the Sino-Japanese war is just something like the citystate wars within China.

Can tolerance and forgiveness begin here?

Why not?

bossel said:

名無し said:

What will happen if some of them are killed by riot police, perhaps in Tiananmen Square.

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Wishful thinking?

I'd say: Not much.

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Beijing Closes Tiananmen Square Amid Protest Talk

Beijing's Tiananmen Square was closed to the public on Wednesday for a government-organised coming-of-age ceremony for 18 year olds, state media reported, an apparent attempt to thwart any anti-Japanese protests.

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