Understand

[Hurricanemag]

Hi,
As a child my now 15 year old daughter has always told me that she would live in Japan. She has always had a crush on somebody from an Asian country. At the start of this school year she made a new friend with a young man from Japan. His family is temporarily here for employment purposes. What went from friendship, to a crush, to a mutual like, has turned into what they both say is love.

My daughter isn't allowed to date until she is 16. So, they talk, he visits our family, and they meet at local parks to take walks. He has told her that needs to follow his fathers plans for him, but he wants to marry her and will wait until she is old enough (he is 16). I am really struggling to understand that Japanese dating culture. Is this normal for this age?

 

[Mike Cash]

Were you never sixteen?

 

[Glenski]

No, it is not normal for Japanese-Japanese relationships.

For a male Japanese / female American, maybe. As Mike said, be aware of what they are thinking. Hormones are talking here.

 

[Hurricanemag]

I know very little about the Japanese dating culture and have read a little about it. He has already introduced her to his parents and told them that he is dating her. I am worried because I see the relationship moving very quickly and I am not certain how to slow it down. I just needed to know what some of the cultural issues that could be at play or if it was more hormones and being 16 in America/trying to blend into American culture.

 

[Mike Cash]

The latter, although I suspect that sixteen year old kids thrive on romance pretty much the world over.

Has he been moved around a lot due to his father's work? Perhaps he comes from a background where every couple of years he gets uprooted and bundled off somewhere new, which might account for him trying to hit the ground running wherever he goes. An involuntary tumbleweed desperately trying to throw some roots in the ground somewhere, as it were.

He'll go away. They'll both sigh, mope, and pine for each other. Then they'll get on with their lives.

 

[Hurricanemag]

This young man's family is very stable, as in this is their 1st ever move. As a matter of a fact, finding an American girl friend wasn't on his agenda. He felt that because he would only be here for 4 years that it wouldn't be a good idea to date. They are each others 1st kiss and first date. I really don't see this boy leaving anytime soon because he is following our dating rules. She constantly tries to bend the rules and he reminds her that they need to respect our wishes.

 

[Mike Cash]

Let's hope he's Wally Cleaver, but keep your eye out for Eddie Haskell anyway.

 

[Glenski]

He wants to marry her and yet he is only 16. Realize what that truly means. He wants her bod. It's an American infatuation thing for him. Most Japanese until the age of 30 have a maturity level that is 5-7 years younger than their biological age.

Don't shun the lad, but instead invite him over and get to know him (and vice versa). Absolutely have get-togethers with his folks, just to have fun and learn what each other is like.

You said your daughter is not allowed to date until 16, but you also said they are each other's first date. Uh, what?

 

[Hurricanemag]

She is allowed to group date, not single date. Thus, she can go with large groups of friends to the movies, dances, and out to eat. About a month ago they met at the movies with about 6 of their friends. They count that as their first date. If her and Tetsu spent time together someone needs to tag along. Yesterday she took her 14 year old brother with them for a walk. The brother didn't do very well. Each time Tetsu took her hand our son would begin to strut around and show off his muscles. After talking to our youngest I learned that he feels that holding hands is a criminal offense, especially when his sister is involved.

Don't really plan to shun the lad, but I do want to know more about the culture and how to get to know the parents better. There is not only a huge language barrier between us, but the father is a CEO for a steel corp and my husband is a bus driver. His mother is a stay at home Mom and I am a college student. They purchased a mansion for the 4 of them and we live in a tiny townhouse with 6 people, a dog and a cat. We also have a child with a disability. They also only socialize with other people from Japan. From what Tetsu has told me, we might become their only American friends.

Last week Autumn was invited to spend time at his home. She was there for about 1 1/2 hours. She helped his sister with her English homework and looked at pictures of him when he was little. The entire time that she was there his mother told her how beautiful, smart and clever she was. But, when his father came home the man was talking as he entered the home but as soon as he saw her, he froze and stared at her. She said that he said very little after that. When we arrived to pick up Autumn, the Dad did thank us for letting her visit.

I really do want to get to know if parents better. But I don't want to offend them. However, Tetsu continually apologizes because he worries that he is offending us because his language and traditions are different. I have tried to explain to him that here we understand that everyone had different traditions. I would love to invite them over and Autumn really wants us to have a traditional Thanksgiving Dinner with them. But, right now I am just trying to get past Halloween.

 

[Hurricanemag]

What is the cultural reason for their maturity being 5-7 years younger than their biological age. In the USA most guys are 2 years behind but in all honesty most of them, even if they do marry young, are not ready for marriage until they are in their 30's. If they are less mature than at what age do they start to date? Also, will it offend the parents if we share with them our rules for dating/hanging out with each other. My husband and I don't want her sneaking off to see this boy, because she is our child who wold do that. Instead we give her structured situations where she can see him.

He wants to marry her and yet he is only 16. Realize what that truly means. He wants her bod. It's an American infatuation thing for him. Most Japanese until the age of 30 have a maturity level that is 5-7 years younger than their biological age.

Don't shun the lad, but instead invite him over and get to know him (and vice versa). Absolutely have get-togethers with his folks, just to have fun and learn what each other is like.

You said your daughter is not allowed to date until 16, but you also said they are each other's first date. Uh, what?

 

[Glenski]

IMO, J kids are younger mentally than their biological age is because of a few factors. Parents pamper their kids a lot in many ways. Also, the culture is based a lot on cuteness; it is not a rare thing to see grown adults with cell phone straps with cartoon characters. Also, in the school system, it is filled with coddling. Homeroom teachers are surrogate counselors and parents (rare schools actually have counselors). Kids are not allowed to fail, even if it means taking tests over and over and over. Failure to graduate is rare because of the shame on the school. Kids live in their rooms "socializing" with cell phones far more than Americans. Get a group together, and a bunch of teens will just stand around texting instead of having a verbal conversation.

Put yourself in the position of Tetsu's parents. I don't know their English level, but they are probably trying hard not to offend anyone as they live and adjust to a foreign culture. Tetsu's responses and apologies are entirely normal. I'd say the best opener is to have coffee with his mom. Make the time. Coffee culture is big here, and she will probably welcome the open door to your life. It's a horrible thing (although not surprising) to hear that the family associates only with other Japanese. Stupid, too. Get her to a Starbucks or something and just chat. Let the conversation drift as it may. Don't make it a point to meet solely to talk about your two kids. Won't hurt to bring up your own concerns that they are moving too fast or deeply, then just let it sit there and see what happens, but initially just get to know the mom. Offer any guidance in American culture than you feel comfortable doing. They will really appreciate it. As I said, put yourself in their place.

Dad's reluctance to talk (in English or Japanese?) when he got home and saw your daughter is understandable. He was not warned there would be a stranger in the house. The mom's praise for your daughter's beauty is also common, mostly because Japanese admire western beauty (especially in blondes) and because American girls tend to use makeup far earlier (and in more abundance) than Japanese.

Don't let things fool you, though. My Japanese wife has already told me that boys at his age are not necessarily into manga and anime and just texting. Girls are on their minds first and foremost. Your daughter may be the one inadvertently eading the way to how they interact, simply because it's her country, and Tetsu doesn't want to offend by saying no to things, so keep that in mind, too.

 

[Glenski]

A couple of other things.

1.
Japanese comics portray women in a bad light often. Foreign women are especially depicted as having huge bustlines, blond hair, and blue eyes, all of these being things that are completely different from what you would typically see in a Japanese. The result is the false allure of the foreign female. Even if you don't think your own daughter fits these physical characteristics, Tetsu may think otherwise subconsciously.

Also, J comics do not have a good image of women in general. Lots of sexual violence. Heads up. Who's to say how much of that, plus the typical J lifestyle leads to pent up feelings (not violence necessarily, but at least lust without emotion).

2.
Tetsu is likely trying hard to cope with the language barrier in school. Of course, people need social lives, but living in the U.S. is probably not the same as he did in Japan. So, he is being torn in all directions, academically and socially (and now emotionally, too). My point is that his parents are probably very desperate for him to succeed in school, and it is probably very hard for him because of the language barrier. Make sure your daughter understands that he needs time for that. In Japan, one's success in the business world depends on getting into a good college and graduating. Only in the last year or so has GPA been introduced here, so Tetsu will find it harder than usual when he returns, because students (and staff) are not used to GPA. The job market here is also dismal for J grads (30-40% couldn't find jobs in 2010 or 2011). This is enormous pressure on Tetsu (or will be). If he gets married early... see below.

3.
I don't think I have to write this, but I will. Getting married as a teen is an enormous life risk. In Japan, the marrying age has increased for males and females (over 25 now). People are refusing to tie themselves down, and instead they just want to enjoy life. Getting married is tough, and being married to a foreigner is tougher in some cases (personal experience here). Your daughter needs to experience what Japan is like before anything else. This infatuation will not be easy on her logical processes, so go with the flow. I've seen too many people who want to come here and "live all their lives" even if they've never set one toe in Japan before. Pretty stupid and dangerous. Try doing that with a foreign spouse in tow.

 

[Mike Cash]

The "perception gap" between what the typical starry-eyed overseas fan of Japanese pop culture (cartoons, comic books, etc) imagines Japan to be like and what life in the actual real-world workaday country of Japan is like could probably best be measured in light years. They somehow never clue into the fact that all the material they are so enamored of coming out of Japan is escapist fantasyland make-believe stuff.

She has no idea....and can't possibly have any idea....whether she would love life here and take to it like a duck to water or whether she would join the great many who have come here eager to love it only to end up going home a short time later greatly disappointed and disillusioned with the reality she finds here. She is in love with what she imagines Japan to be, and that is a very easy thing to do, as we allow no room in our imaginary worlds for things we find distasteful or objectionable.

If you show her no other part of this thread, please show her at least what I have written above.

 

[Hurricanemag]

I think that both of the last perspectives about the life style really expresses more of my concerns too. I admire the drive and abilities that the Japanese culture generates. However, I feel that your goals in life should revolve around your talents and that success is measured in more than earning an A or a 4.5 GPA. That success is also measured by trying/effort, having joy and by those you help along the way. I really do not believe that any of my children would find success in Japan.

A few weeks ago Tetsu asked Autumn what the rings on her fingers represented. Autumn explained that she has made a personal goal to wait until marriage to have sex. Tetsu then asked what sex was. Autumn explained, "What you do when you get married?" He still didn't understand so she said, "You know, when a man and a woman make a baby." At that point Tetsu began to apologize to her for having asked about such a thing. He told her that they were too young to talk about such things.

I know that the boy is struggling in school, because of language and the school isn't doing all that they can to help. I am an education advocate and I plan to talk with his parents about this. He was advanced in math, prior to coming here, but because he couldn't understand English he was forced to drop a geometry class. He now gets up at 5:30 every morning to study English. Buy law the school is required to provide him with a translator for that class. It would not be hard for the school to do, we live beside a Big 10 university. The school utilizes the universities master students for most free tutoring programs.

Thank you all so much for all of your help. You really don't know how much you are helping me to understand the culture.

 

[Mike Cash]

It is very possible to find success and happiness living in Japan. I think it is a great place and I can't imagine anywhere on earth I'd rather be. That is not to say that it is an idyllic utopia, though. Foreign residents of Japan can hold gripe sessions about life here that run for hours on end. Only a very tiny fraction of the people who come here actually end up staying for anything longer than even such a short time as two or three years. The whole point of my previous post was merely to address the perception gap between pop culture and the entirely unknown real life Japan.

By the way, the word "sex" is a part of the Japanese vocabulary (just as the Japanese word "tsunami" is a part of English) and is universally known and understood here. Remember....keep your eyes out for Eddie Haskell.

 

[Glenski]

He knows what sex is. He is just trying to find out if she considers it to be penetration with a genital organ or hand, or what she might like otherwise. Japanese are shy but not stupid. Like I said, check out any manga.
Adult Manga

Mind you, not every manga is deviant, but many are. When I wrote "any manga" that was an exaggeration, but not by far.

 

[Hurricanemag]

Again, thank you all so much. I am sure that I will have more questions and need more advice. I am working on making a coffee date with his Mom.

 

[vonessa]

Definitely understand your desire to understand Japanese culture given the situation. But, I'd focus on 16 year old human culture. Raging hormones, and not a clue about reality. Talks of marriage, moving to Japan, at this age are fairly meaningless. Just talk. Let them do their thing, they'll grow up, move on, and then start making adult decisions.