Two questions on grammar

aleku · 26 Jan 2004

I am a beginner in Nihon-go, I have some questions while learning the language.

1.) いつにあなたのうちでばんごはんをたべましょか。
itsuni anatano uchide bangohan o tabemashoka

Is this sentence grammatically correct? I wanted to say "What time (do we) eat dinner in your house?"

2.) べんきょうします and べんきょうしています。
benkyou shimasu benkyou shite imasu

What is the difference between "shimasu" and "shite imasu"?

arigatou gozaimasu!!!!

SacredBlue · 26 Jan 2004

1.) いつにあなたのうちでばんごはんをたべましょか。
itsuni anatano uchide bangohan o tabemashoka

Is this sentence grammatically correct? I wanted to say "What time (do we) eat dinner in your house?"

It's grammatically correct. Literally meaning 'what time shall we eat dinner at your house?"

2.) べんきょうします and べんきょうしています。
benkyou shimasu benkyou shite imasu

What is the difference between "shimasu" and "shite imasu"?

します expresses a present or future tense, depending on the context. しています expresses the progressive tense. So "日本語の勉強をします"would mean "I study Japanese" whereas "日本語の勉強をしています"means "I am studying Japanese".

Like wise, 勉強をしていました means "I was studying". The informal variation of しています is している,and the more colloquial してる

日本語の勉強をします I study Japanese(formal)
日本語の勉強をする I study Japanese(informal)
日本語の勉強をしています I am studying Japanese(formal)
日本語の勉強をしていました I was studying Japanese(formal)
日本語の勉強をしている I am studying Japanese(informal)
日本語の勉強をしていた I was studying Japanese(informal)
日本語の勉強をしてる I am studying Japanese(informal)

がんばってね

aleku · 26 Jan 2004

I see!

thank you SacredBlue-san!

PaulTB · 26 Jan 2004

いつにあなたのうちでばんごはんをたべましょか。

Missing a う at the end of たべましょ, but that's a minor typo.

Elizabeth · 26 Jan 2004

In this case I'd say shimasu is probably most often used to express the future tense. I don't know that you hear "benkyou suru" too often to mean "I study Japanese" on a regular basis, like once a week or something?

cori-chan · 26 Jan 2004

Originally posted by aleku
I am a beginner in Nihon-go, I have some questions while learning the language.

1.) いつにあなたのうちでばんごはんをたべましょか。
itsuni anatano uchide bangohan o tabemashoka

Is this sentence grammatically correct? I wanted to say "What time (do we) eat dinner in your house?"

I'm pretty sure you don't need に in front of いつ, so it would be:
いつあなたのうちでばんごはんをたべますか。 (What time do (we/you) eat dinner at your house?)
With kanji it would be:
いつ貴方の家で晩ご飯を食べますか。

Elizabeth · 26 Jan 2004

I think nanji goro (about what hour) is more natural than itsu, and probably "uchi de wa" to emphasize your house.

cori-chan · 26 Jan 2004

Oops. Elizabeth is right. "いつ" actually means "when," not "what time." Thanks for the correction.

Elizabeth · 26 Jan 2004

I'd also put "anata no uchi/ie de (wa)" as the subject before "nan ji goro" and maybe "yuushoku" is more widely used than "bangohan"? ﾂ

Eelco · 26 Jan 2004

Unfortunately it's become a puzzle now

one other suggestion: replace anata no uchi/ie with o-uchi. The Japanese prefer not to use words like I, me, your etc.

so, the final sentence would be:

何時ごろおうちで夕食を食べますか。
Nan ji goro, o-uchi de yuushoku wo tabemasu ka.
Itsu goro, o-uchi de yuushoku wo tabemasu ka.

(何時 can be read as "nan ji" and "itsu")

PaulTB · 26 Jan 2004

Originally posted by Eelco
(何時 can be read as "nan ji" and "itsu")

True enough, but I suspect that it it was any less used in kanji it would be approaching the level of using 息を吐く and expecting people to read 吐く as つく.

[edit] Er, I meant in reference to 'いつ' of course, なんじ is usually in kanji.

Eelco · 26 Jan 2004

日本語を勉強していた。 can also mean "I used to study Japanese."

whereas

日本語を勉強した。 means "I studied Japanese."

This difference is the most difficult to grasp most of the time. The first implies you are not studying it any more, because you pretty much gave up on it. The second is more a statement saying that you studied it, which is why you understand the language now.

Combining it with a negative gives it another dimension altogether:

日本語を勉強しない。 means "I don't study Japanese (and have no intention of ever doing so)."
日本語を勉強していない。 means "I don't study Japanese (but I do want to someday)."

日本語を勉強しなかった。 means "I didn't study Japanese." as the statement.
日本語を勉強していなかった。 means "I didn't study Japanese." but has the connotation of regretting that fact.

Elizabeth · 26 Jan 2004

Originally posted by Eelco
Unfortunately it's become a puzzle now

one other suggestion: replace anata no uchi/ie with o-uchi. The Japanese prefer not to use words like I, me, your etc.

so, the final sentence would be:

窶ｰﾂｽﾅｽﾅｾ窶堋ｲ窶堙ｫ窶堋ｨ窶堋､窶堋ｿ窶堙??納ﾂ食窶堙ｰﾂ食窶堙冷?堙懌?堋ｷ窶堋ｩﾂ。
Nan ji goro, o-uchi de yuushoku wo tabemasu ka.
Itsu goro, o-uchi de yuushoku wo tabemasu ka.

Yeah, it's probably better, or just use the person's name. I had forgotten about ouchi, but thought of 窶堋ｨ窶佚ｮ later.

Elizabeth · 26 Jan 2004

Originally posted by Eelco
日本語を勉強しない。 means "I don't study Japanese (and have no intention of ever doing so)."
日本語を勉強していない。 means "I don't study Japanese (but I do want to someday)."

This is often highlighted with "suru" in connection with the kekkon shite inai and kekkon shinai distinction as well. I wasn't aware of the nuance between "shite ita" and "ita" as learning interrupted and completed, though. Probably because shite ita sounds a little better as "was studying" than "used to study" in English.

Elizabeth · 27 Jan 2004

Originally posted by Eelco
日本語を勉強していた。 can also mean "I used to study Japanese."

whereas

日本語を勉強した。 means "I studied Japanese."

This difference is the most difficult to grasp most of the time. The first implies you are not studying it any more, because you pretty much gave up on it. The second is more a statement saying that you studied it, which is why you understand the language now.

I don't think していた implies that you necessarily understand it now, only that you studied over a certain period of time. I'll try to think of a good example later, but even something simple like "A man was studying Japanese at the game last night" ある男が夕べの試合で日本語を勉強していた doesn't say anything about his competence or ability whatsoever.

Also 勉強した could be used in the context of "The first time I studied Japanese I used a textbook" or "When I was in high school I studied Japanese on my own." neither of which say anything about whether you're still studying.

Anyway, I asked a native friend to please explain it better than this....

Elizabeth · 27 Jan 2004

Originally posted by Elizabeth
Anyway, I asked a native friend to please explain it better than this....

And this is what she wrote....

勉強していました。」と「勉強しました。」は、ほぼ同じ意味ですがニュアンスが少し違います。それは前後の文にもよるので一言ではなかなか説明できません。たとえば「昨日の晩勉強していました。」と言うと、昨夜はずっと勉強に時間を費やしていたような印象を受けます。「昨日の晩勉強しました。」だと、ただ「勉強していた。」という事実だけしかわからないので、ほんの３０分位でもいえるしもしかしたらずっと長い時間勉強していたのかもしれません。日本語は英語に比べて全体的にあいまいな表現が多いので前後の文で判断する場合が多いです。もし「前は日本語を勉強していたけど今はもうしていず、忘れてしまってる場合」は「前は、日本語を勉強していましたが、もう今はしていません。」、または「前に、日本語を勉強しましたが、今はもうしていません。」という風にいろんな言い方があります。だからなかなか間単に違いを説明できないです。そのときの状況や前後の文によって変わってくるからです。

aleku · 27 Jan 2004

Originally posted by Eelco
one other suggestion: replace anata no uchi/ie with o-uchi. The Japanese prefer not to use words like I, me, your etc.

(何時 can be read as "nan ji" and "itsu")

Oh thank you Eelco-san for the suggestion. I am just get too used to construct the sentence in English then translate them into Japanese sentence(e.g "your house"), I guess in order to learn better Japanese, understanding the Japanese culture does help a lot.

Two questions on grammar

aleku

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SacredBlue

先輩

aleku

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PaulTB

Manga Psychic

Elizabeth

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cori-chan

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Elizabeth

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cori-chan

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Elizabeth

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Eelco

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PaulTB

Manga Psychic

Eelco

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Elizabeth

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Elizabeth

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Elizabeth

先輩

Elizabeth

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aleku

後輩

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