The pope dies
- Thread starter Nuala
- Start date
kirei_na_me
Where I'm Supposed to Be
- 31 Jan 2003
- 5,051
- 166
From what I'm hearing, the pope isn't dead yet, but probably will be soon.
- 21 May 2003
- 14,310
- 4,404
He's Right, The Press Did Say That Earlier !
Then they retracted the statement saying they jumped the gun. The Vatican has not said a word for 5 hours about what's up?
Frank
Then they retracted the statement saying they jumped the gun. The Vatican has not said a word for 5 hours about what's up?
Frank
DoctorP
先輩
- 3 Jun 2004
- 2,193
- 93
Another reason why I don't usually watch network news. There is always too much of a rush to put the story out...everyone wants to be first! Sad thing is...they are trying to be the first to let everyone know that someone has died...they will be celebrating that they reported it first! Isn't there something just inherently wrong with that?
kirei_na_me
Where I'm Supposed to Be
- 31 Jan 2003
- 5,051
- 166
I was thinking the exact same thing earlier, CC1.
- 21 May 2003
- 14,310
- 4,404
It Seems......
he has 9 lives, he may just fight back and make it? He sure made the world sit up and take notice of the Pope and what he can accomplish in the world !
I'm glad he did not die on April's Fools Day, it would have been beneath his dignity.
Frank
☝
he has 9 lives, he may just fight back and make it? He sure made the world sit up and take notice of the Pope and what he can accomplish in the world !
I'm glad he did not die on April's Fools Day, it would have been beneath his dignity.
Frank
☝
- 21 May 2003
- 14,310
- 4,404
Shas said:is that on purpose ?
My avatars change as fast as Maine weather. I do try to put some thought into them as well as humor. Thanks for noticing!!
Frank
Lina Inverse
後輩
- 29 Apr 2004
- 1,700
- 49
About as interesting as "Fritz's poodle is dead." 
Well, there's now a tiny chance that things will become better with his successor... perhaps he'll finally allow such essential things as contraception. But wait, can't have that - the overpopulation in the third world countries would decrease, the people would be less desperate and they could push their crap onto them that easily anymore, as they wouldn't be that dependant on the church's help anymore
Well, there's now a tiny chance that things will become better with his successor... perhaps he'll finally allow such essential things as contraception. But wait, can't have that - the overpopulation in the third world countries would decrease, the people would be less desperate and they could push their crap onto them that easily anymore, as they wouldn't be that dependant on the church's help anymore
- 15 Mar 2002
- 16,758
- 2,298
Lina Inverse said:About as interesting as "Fritz's poodle is dead."
Well, there's now a tiny chance that things will become better with his successor... perhaps he'll finally allow such essential things as contraception. But wait, can't have that - the overpopulation in the third world countries would decrease, the people would be less desperate and they could push their crap onto them that easily anymore, as they wouldn't be that dependant on the church's help anymore
It is usually considered good manners to withhold criticism of dead people at least until the funeral is over.
Apollo
先輩
- 28 Mar 2004
- 1,810
- 45
Thor said:
Election Of A Pope
The procedure following the death of the Pope was revised by the Vatican in February 1996. The new document (Universi Dominici Gregis, "The shepherd of the Lord's whole flock") replaces the previous instruction of 1975 from Pope Paul VI.
Pope's death:
The Chamberlain (Camerlengo) of the Holy Roman Church (presently the Spanish Cardinal Martinez Somalo) is the one who ascertains the Pope's death in the presence of the Papal Master of Ceremonies and a number of other members of the Papal Household. He notifies the Cardinal Vicar for Rome who in turn notifies the people of Rome. The Chamberlain seals the Pope's apartments and begins to make arrangements for the burial. It is the Dean's responsibility to inform the Diplomatic Corps and Heads of state.
Pope's Burial:
Nine days of official mourning are declared and burial takes place between the fourth and sixth day after death (except for special reasons). Popes are usually buried in St Peter's Basilica, where the body will be laid in state for people to pay their respects.
Preparations for the Election:
All heads of departments (including the Secretary of State and Prefects of Congregations) cease to exercise their office and the day-to-day running of the Church is done by the College of Cardinals, called together by the Dean. The routine business of departments is looked after by their Secretaries. Important decisions are taken by the College of Cardinals, but they have no power to take decisions that would normally be left to the Pope himself. One of the most important priorities is preparation for the election of the new Pope.
One of the changes made in the 1996 document concerns the conclave. The word itself comes from the Latin cum clave (literally "with a key") and meant that the cardinals were locked in the Apostolic Palace until they produced a result. Now the Cardinals are to be housed in a new building inside the Vatican's walls called the Domus Sanctae Marthae (St Martha's House) and move from there to the Papal Palace and the Sistine Chapel for the actual voting process. While they are moving to and from their new accommodation they are forbidden to communicate with anyone not involved in the election.
The Electors:
Since 1059 the election of the Pope has been reserved to the cardinals alone and this is their principal function - this is the first thing said about them in the Church's Code of Canon Law. Cardinals are not an 'order' in the Church like bishops or priests and so they are not ordained as cardinals, simply appointed by the Pope. From time to time the Pope calls a meeting of cardinals called a 'Consistory' and announces the names of new cardinals. The creation of new cardinals ensures that there is a sufficient number eligible to vote (i.e. under the age of 80) up to a maximum of 120.
The cardinals were originally a group of clergy who were around the Pope to advise him. By the 12th century the cardinals consisted of 7 bishops of dioceses round Rome, 28 priests from Roman churches and 20 deacons. Cardinals are still ranked as cardinal bishops, cardinal priests and cardinal deacons, even though now (since 1962) they are all required to be bishops before they are made cardinal.
The Election Process :
15 days after the pope's death (and not later than 20 days) the election begins with a mass in St Peter's celebrated by all the cardinals. That afternoon the cardinals proceed to the Sistine Chapel, where voting has traditionally taken place beneath Michelangelo's fresco of the Last Judgement. The revised rules make no mention of the tradition of the white smoke that signals the end of voting and election of a new Pope. Even though they are no longer locked in, the process is still referred to as a 'conclave' and the process is made as private and secret as possible, even to the extent of ensuring that an electronic sweep is done in the chapel to detect any 'bugs' planted.
The cardinals take an oath promising secrecy and the order is given, Extra omnes ("all outside"). The oath of secrecy forbids them to communicate with anyone not involved in the election, or even to disclose details of the votes when the election is over.
Traditionally, there were three methods of choosing the new Pope. The first was by acclamation, when all the cardinals agreed to one name proposed, without prior arrangement. This, however, appears never to have happened. The second was by compromise, when a stalemate was resolved in one of three ways - - a simple majority, plus one - a ballot between the two strongest candidates - delegating the election to a small group of between 9 and 15.
Now there is only one method, a simple two-thirds majority (or two thirds plus one if the number is not exactly divisible). [N.B. See the section 'Resolving deadlock' below]
Ballots:
Voting begins on the first day, when one ballot is held in the afternoon if possible. If the first ballot does not produce a result, there are two ballots each morning and each afternoon until a result is declared.
The Papal Master of Ceremonies hands out voting papers, giving at least two or three to each cardinal. Nine cardinals are chosen by lot for three tasks: three are to be scrutineers, three are to collect the votes of those who are sick and unable to be in the Sistine Chapel but who are nonetheless able to vote, and three are to double-check the counting. The ballot paper is divided in two: the top half carries the words "Eligo in Summum Pontificem" (I elect as pope...) and the bottom half is blank for the name to be written in. The handwriting on the bottom part should not be identifiable as belonging to any cardinal, and the inclusion of a second name will render the ballot null and void. The Master of Ceremonies and others leave, the doors of the Sistine Chapel are closed and the vote begins. In order of precedence, each cardinal elector holds up his completed ballot paper. He then carries it to the altar and places it in a receptacle. He swears that his vote is for his choice and puts the paper onto a plate, which he uses then to drop the voting slip into the receptacle on the altar.
When all votes have been placed in the urn (including the votes of any sick cardinals whose votes have been collected from the Domus Sanctae Marthae), the urn is shaken. A scrutineer takes the votes out one by one, in full view, and puts them into another container, making sure that the number of slips corresponds to the number of voters. If not, the ballot is void.
The scrutineers sit at a table in front of the altar. The first scrutineer unfolds each paper, notes the name and passes it to the second, who does the same. The third then reads out the name that has been written down and the electors can make note of the names and votes. The scrutineers write down the number of votes received by each name and the last scrutineer collects the voting slips by threading a needle through the word Eligo and collecting the slips on a thread which is then knotted. (The slips are burned at the end of the session, together with any notes the electors have made.) The names are counted and if a name has received two-thirds of the votes, the pope has been elected. The counting is checked by the third group of three cardinals (the 'revisers') who examine both the original voting slips and the scrutineers' notes. The Chamberlain records the votes in each ballot on one sheet of paper and after the election this is given to the new pope before it is stored in a confidential archive.
If the first ballot does not produce a result, the process is repeated for three days only. After three days of unsuccessful voting, the procedure is suspended for a day to give time for prayer, reflection and informal discussions. The voting then begins again for a series of seven more ballots. If there is still no conclusion, another pause is taken before a further seven ballots. If this still does not produce a result, one more pause and another series of seven ballots follow. Finally, however, the cardinals are addressed by the Chamberlain about what to do next.
Resolving Deadlock:
The election goes forward in the way that the majority of electors decide. A result can now come from an absolute majority or by a vote on the two names that received the largest number of votes in the last ballot. Here, too, an absolute majority is required.
New Pope :
The successful candidate is then asked by the Dean of the College of Cardinals, "Do you accept your canonical election as Supreme Pontiff?" When he gives his agreement, he is then asked what name he will choose as Pope. This agreement and choice is then signed and (assuming that the person is already a bishop) he is immediately Bishop of Rome. The cardinals pay him their respects and the Cardinal Deacon announces the result of the election to the people in St. Peter's Square. The new Pope comes out and gives them his blessing. There is no longer a coronation ceremony, but the Pontificate is inaugurated at a ceremony in St Peter's a short time later (in the case of Pope John Paul II it was six days later.)
(Source: www.cbciste.com)
Flashjeff
Pink Lady's Number #1 Fan
- 28 Dec 2003
- 2,585
- 77
Well, I've never been a religious man, but it's a damn shame about the Pope having passed away. He lived a long and fruitful life and was loved by millions of people around the world. John Paul's successor wil have some pretty HUGE shoes to fill.
sadakoyamamura
Danshaku Sadako
- 30 Dec 2003
- 281
- 4
I'm not really religious but I was touched by the number of people who went to Vatican City to witness his burial. I was touched that even leaders from non Catholic nations were there. It made me think that its possible to achieve great things without resorting to wars. Also I'm regretting it now that my financial status prevented me to attend the World Youth Day summit in 1995.
I guess the new pope would have a lot on his hands because many people will expect many things from him. I also wonder from which part of the world he would come from. It has been said that perhaps because of the deceased pope's impact in the third world countries, the successor would perhaps come from there.
I guess the new pope would have a lot on his hands because many people will expect many things from him. I also wonder from which part of the world he would come from. It has been said that perhaps because of the deceased pope's impact in the third world countries, the successor would perhaps come from there.
Flashjeff
Pink Lady's Number #1 Fan
- 28 Dec 2003
- 2,585
- 77
sadakoyamamura said:
That might well be the case. For those of you who might not be aware of this, but bookmakers over in Ireland have odds posted on who the next Pope will be. Don't believe me? Check out the link below:
http://www.paddypower.com/bet?actio...arket&category=SPECIALS&ev_class_id=45&id=520
And people say we Americans are gambling fools! HA! But then, I haven't heard if bookmakers in Vegas are in on the papal action!
