The gay gene

[bakaKanadajin]

Let's say they found it.

A gene or protein or something that heavily influences the sexual orientation of a human being.

In much the same way physical characteristics of males and females are genetically pre-determined, (height, breasts, facial hair, etc) let's say chemical composition or even physical composition of the brain lending itself to sexual orientation or pre-disposition was also the result of one or two genetically-related factors.

The so-called 'born gay' theory.
(Leaving nature vs. nurture aside for a moment)

Let's say they could switch it on and off with fairly high predictability via pre-natal vitamins or drugs.

Would you prefer to have a child that was

1) Definitely going to be gay
2) Definitely going to be straight
3) Don't care which

I believe many people would choose 3 and say 'Anything's fine, I don't judge' because to a large extent they have no control and are resigned to that.

But if you could choose easily and safely would you choose? Or still just leave it up to chance?

If I have always been totally fine with gay people but, suddenly faced with this choice, thereby choose to ensure my child is not gay for any number of reasons, does that suddenly make me discriminatory against gays? Or am I just trying to help my own child lead a life with less difficulty and confusion?

Last point, do we as parents have the right to choose things like this if it ever becomes possible?

 

[Hezam]

It will be nice to add poll to this thread ^^

 

[nice gaijin]

My first reaction was to choose straight, simply because I would hate to see my kid suffer at the hands of an ignorant society for being who they are. In the end I would probably leave it to chance, because it really doesn't matter who they turn out to be, they'd still be my children. And if everyone acted on the first impulse I had, we'd just be affirming that status quo instead of trying to change it for the better.

On the whole, selective breeding is a moral gray area. Where do we draw the line?

Designer babies?
http://www.actionbioscience.org/biotech/agar.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/03/03/earlyshow/health/main4840346.shtml
http://articles.cnn.com/2008-10-30/...ing-designer-babies-animal-embryos?_s=PM:TECH

Selective Abortion?
Genetics and abortion - Wikipedia
http://chinageeks.org/2010/05/sex-selective-abortion-in-china/

Eugenics? (this term seems to have been usurped by creationists as an evolutionary counter-argument)
http://scienceinsociety.northwester...nics/modern-eugenics-building-a-better-person
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/014/915cuzel.asp

 

[Tsuyoiko]

In the UK at least, it's perfectly possible to lead a completely normal life as an openly gay person. It wouldn't matter to me one jot whether my child turned out to be gay or straight, so I would be more than happy to leave it to chance. In fact, I've already thought about it, and plan to bring up my children with the knowledge that I have no preconceptions about their sexuality. I would hope that if my child does turn out to be gay, they won't even see any need to "come out", because it just won't be an issue.

 

[Ather]

Ok, i will say being gay is abnormal, and although they shouldn't be hated or discriminated, being gay shouldn't be encouraged( because its kinda coming to a point where being a gay or lesbian is considered equal to "being aware of who you are and having a strong personality, standing against the world for your choice ), that i would definitely choose my child to be straight, then wait for the flame war begin.

 

[Nuala]

The suggestion to change what sexual orientation our children be to better fit our needs as incomplete human beings is not a very bright one. Nothing is wrong with homosexuality, it isn't abnormal. There's no difference between a woman who loves a man, and a woman who loves a woman. Reproduction isn't an issue as we have a surplus of human beings at the moment, so can anyone give me a good reason as to why it's wrong and needs to be changed to another sexuality before birth?

Cultural, Religious, and excuses steaming from fear of reprisal do not count. Give me proof that a LGB baby would be more prone to sickness, genetic diseases, and what have you. You cannot do that, so it would be wise to conclude that we're lower than dirt for wanting to change our children to fit our fears and upbringing.

 

[Ather]

Actually things start to differ in definition of "love". Sex is one of the greatest things between two people, especially if it involves love, but it "exists" because of the need of reproduction. So naturally, it is meant to be between people of two different genders. You can love anyone, your car, mother, country, practically anything. There can be two straight male friends who "love" each other without the desire of sex. If two people of the same gender have sexual feelings about each other, in my opinion of view (my knowledge of biology or genetics is not enough to give solid evidence ) its a genetic or psyhcological disorder. What makes it different than incest desires,pedophilia or even bestiality ? These are sexual desires likewise, can they be considered normal too, if no one is harmed or molested in any ways ? Because being homosexual is not only about pure innocent love or understanding of two souls unfortunately happened to exist in bodies of the same gender.

And i want to add, i am not homofobic, and i'm willing to try understand them but i'm just tired of society pressing people with "being gay is great!!" slogans, i can tolerate them even if i can't understand them, they have the right to live in this world as much as i do, but i don't want my children to grow up in a world that considers being homosexuality as the greatest act of freedom of speech. Because at this rate, we are directing our children to have sex with anything they like, and in the long run, thats gonna cause massive shitstorm, believe me.

 

[Nuala]

What makes it different than incest desires,pedophilia or even bestiality ?

See, I've had the same discussion repeatedly over the last few weeks, and I've had just about all I can handle of this nonsense. You are a homophobe, you are afraid of homosexual people and you have an irrational dislike of homosexual people. You are comparing me to people who have incest, rape children, and rape animals. The difference is that we don't rape children, animals, or have sex with our goddamn relatives.

Children growing up are gonna be able to figure out what their sexuality is. Mommy and daddy no need to tell them that their feelings towards fellow men or women are wrong. If you want to screw your child up, do exactly what you're suggesting. They're going to have a hard life coming to terms with how badly you screwed them up, but that will be OKAY because you did what you thought was best for them.

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

More personal attacks.

I prefer that my children be straight. I want more grandkids.

 

[Hezam]

Who would have homosexual children ? i want straight children so they can live as regular people !
It's not my/their choice but that's what most people want,And it's not wrong to be homosexual,not your fault.

 

[Davey]

I want straight children so they can live as regular people !

I think it really depends on what country you are living in, I wouldn't want to be a homosexual in Iran for example. But in Holland people are really open about it, and can even walk hand in hand in the streets (you shouldn't do that in a doggy neighborhood though). In fact my mom is a lesbian and married to another woman, she never had any problems besides some name calling... but that happens everywhere even though you are gay or not.

P.s. we will keep an eye on this topic so keep it nice. We all have different thoughts about homosexuals, please try to respect other people their opinions.

 

[Nuala]

I have found the solution to this thread! Sparkling and Prancing Unicorns Ahoy!

 

[Hezam]

I think it really depends on what country you are living in, I wouldn't want to be a homosexual in Iran for example. But in Holland people are really open about it, and can even walk hand in hand in the streets (you shouldn't do that in a doggy neighborhood though). In fact my mom is a lesbian and married to another woman, she never had any problems besides some name calling... but that happens everywhere even though you are gay or not.

P.s. we will keep an eye on this topic so keep it nice. We all have different thoughts about homosexuals, please try to respect other people their opinions.

oh,you misunderstand me,i meant straight can marry and have childern,but i feel sorry for homosexuals since they have no interest in women.
What if someone of you can't have childern ? isn't it sad ? that's what i meant and not whether the people accept them or not,it's a different matter.

P.s i just understood why i was seeing some rolling eyes in my sleep lately ☝

 

[Davey]

I feel sorry for homosexuals since they have no interest in women.

And I feel sorry for kids that have no interest in cars.... It doesn't make any sense what you are saying here... First of all a homosexual can be male and female. So you also feel sorry for women who have no interest in other women. How can you feel sorry for someone who just isn't interested in something... Should I feel sorry for you if you aren't interested in koala's???

What if someone of you can't have childern ? isn't it sad ?

In countries such as The Netherlands even homosexuals have the right to adopt a baby, or they can even take the sperm from a good friend and make a baby with that.

It's what they want, why feel sorry for that.

Maybe this is an interesting article for you:
http://www.mideastyouth.com/2006/10/29/homosexuality-in-the-arab-world-2/

 

[Haruspex]

I seriously wonder about the mental capacity of our species when I read forum posts. I have to add that this forum appears fairly 'reasonable' and more or less free of assumptions and conservatively held beliefs, but hell, even here that sort of bollocks does crop up quite frequently.
Homosexuality is merely an issue of which sex an individual is sexually attracted to, and what it evidently entails, eg difficulties in the field of reproduction. There is nothing more to it. Not a bloody thing. Nothing more.
I find it logical to choose strictly against the societal background, the prevailing views. If you live in a country where homosexual people are prosecuted and executed, there's no f*cking point breeding in the first place and it's quite stupid to thrust your offspring, willfully, into a situation where he will be faced with great difficulties.
Now, the corollary of this single consideration excluding all others is that, again, it's infinitely stupid to be bringing all these silly claims that one can often read that somehow homosexuals are missing out on those incredible things in life, such as knocking up a crack ***** and sinking into alcoholism, ie founding a family too hastily, without giving it due thought because 'Oh, it's such a beautiful thing to have a crying predator of resources that will need over 20 years of attention while I'm earning under the gdp per capita average of Madagascar.'
Yeah, people are full of stupid nonsense and they never hesitate to force their subjective nonsense on everyone. Bloody face it, gay people have somewhat different interests and pursuits not because they decided to torture themselves, but because they're bleeding different. I would extend this not only to gay people, but to all people. You know, some heterosexuals might wish not to reproduce. Some may not desire to get married. Well, guess what, some may even hate children and their presence. Some may find the pleasures of marital life to be dreadful.
If this comment offends, I don't care. I was speaking of human traits and human behaviour and most importantly human stupidity. This is not an ad hominem attack, this is an ad homines attack.

 

[Ather]

Yeah, as usual, sole questions are marked as insults, which was why i pointed i am not homofobic, i just wanted explanations. People can have sex with practically anyone or anything, thats not my business, i don't care even if someone has sex with a pineapple,i just wanted an logical explanation about what makes it different than any fetishes, sexual insticts etc. Because there are hundreds of different sexual choices in the world, what makes homosexuality normal and others gross ?
p.s : Question marks mean i am, in fact, asking questions and not pointing my opinion. Just like my previous post. Because, if we are to talk about gays here, someone should ask, so any gays, or pro-gays can explain their point of view.

 

[Haruspex]

Ok, i will say being gay is abnormal, and although they shouldn't be hated or discriminated, being gay shouldn't be encouraged( because its kinda coming to a point where being a gay or lesbian is considered equal to "being aware of who you are and having a strong personality, standing against the world for your choice ), that i would definitely choose my child to be straight, then wait for the flame war begin.

This is a statement.

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

Derfel, I don't have anything against homosexuals. They don't hurt me or threaten my beliefs.

But the question was directed at the sexual preference of your offspring, if you could choose. I'd choose straight anyway, just because life would be easier for them. But my main reason is GRANDKIDS.

Judging from your age, that issue probably isn't even on your horizon yet.

 

[Haruspex]

Derfel, I don't have anything against homosexuals. They don't hurt me or threaten my beliefs.

But the question was directed at the sexual preference of your offspring, if you could choose. I'd choose straight anyway, just because life would be easier for them. But my main reason is GRANDKIDS.

Judging from your age, that issue probably isn't even on your horizon yet.

The post wasn't aimed at you, or anyone specifically. I would choose heterosexual myself, considering the difficulties homosexual people are faced with, and I think that would be reasonable as it is a practical one that does not ignore reality, but there are other considerations which I find quite silly that are fairly commonly invoked in making decisions and taking positions. For instance, some would claim that homosexuality is reprehensible as it is unnatural, but evidently, even if it was established that somehow homosexuality is unnatural, that does not mean that natural things are to be promoted at the expense of things considered not natural.

Yeah, that's quite true, I don't even want kids, let alone grandkids. Hahaha.

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

As a lesbian friend once told me, "Choice? Who in their right mind would CHOOSE to be gay, with all the discrimination there is against us."

 

[Tsuyoiko]

But the question was directed at the sexual preference of your offspring, if you could choose. I'd choose straight anyway, just because life would be easier for them. But my main reason is GRANDKIDS.

Gay people can have children.

 

[Ather]

This is a statement.

Yes it is, but it doesn't insult anyone. Just my point of view. Anything wrong with that statement ? (you may not agree of course, still, i'm sure thats not more offensive then calling me homophobic)

Btw, yes gay people can have children, donating their semen to banks or finding willing women who will carry their child without sex, but do you think it is great to let a children live in a family without a mother or father ? Any children who grows up with two dads or moms can experience setbacks, i suppose.

 

[Mycernius]

Yes it is, but it doesn't insult anyone. Just my point of view. Anything wrong with that statement ? (you may not agree of course, still, i'm sure thats not more offensive then calling me homophobic)
Btw, yes gay people can have children, donating their semen to banks or finding willing women who will carry their child without sex, but do you think it is great to let a children live in a family without a mother or father ? Any children who grows up with two dads or moms can experience setbacks, i suppose.

No more than children living with just one parent, or seperated parents, or foster parents. Dutch Baka said that his mother is gay and lives with another woman. Maybe you should ask him, who is happily married with one child, whether it affected him.

 

[Kirie_Maiden]

I voted before I really thought about it. And before I read the question... but I'll stick to my guns.

I'd choose Straight, for the reasons that people have stated above. I have nothing against gay people, but I would not like to see my child suffer the persecution and hate that homosexuals face every day because of a choice I made for them. I would hate my child blaming me.

I was also going to go the Grandkids route, because not many couples actually have children created through surrogates. Some of them adopt. I would want grand children that are my own flesh and blood.

On the other hand, I think having a gay child would be awesome and I have no idea why people are sometimes ashamed of their gay children. Would I want Neil Patrick Harris as a son? Hells yes.

 

[Revenant]

My choice also, grandkids.

As to the other debate I saw going on here, I read that children of single fathers were more tenacious and patient, whereas children of single mothers were more empathetic. So in my view, given all parental arrangements are equal, ie, all loving parents, I'd go with this.

Hetero couple > Homo couple > Single Parent