Tag found on type 99 rifle

[ChefKilleenit]

I was hoping one of the intellectuals here could help me decipher. What is on this tag and what its intention is for?

 

[Uncle Frank]

Spun them around so easier for our experts to read.

 

[Majestic]

It's an ownership tag, presumably from a pawn shop, or possibly taken during the war. It gives the name and address of the owner/presenter, and it gives a guess as to the maker of the item

直片市頓野第三町内會
第七隣組
椎木幾三郎
（関兼光）推定

Naogata city, Tonno district, 3rd Community Association
No 7 Neighborhood Group
Shiiki Ikusaburō (name of the person who gave up the item)
Estimated to be the work of Seki Kanemitsu

 

[Dentanmono]

It's an ownership tag, presumably from a pawn shop, or possibly taken during the war. It gives the name and address of the owner/presenter, and it gives a guess as to the maker of the item

The theory when this photo was posted on the risingsun firearms board was that the tag was from a sword surrender and put on the rifle later.

 

[Uncle Frank]

Wish I had a picture of the same type rifle my father butchered , LOL. He had it sandblasted which pitted deep into all the metal parts and they even sandblasted all the wood to make it look cleaner. After he passed , I think my mother sent it to the dump.

 

[ChefKilleenit]

The theory when this photo was posted on the risingsun firearms board was that the tag was from a sword surrender and put on the rifle later.

Did you post a picture or did you see that I had posted a picture on one of the Fb forums? I’m just trying to confirm the name and if anybody can identify what the item might be it was found tied to the rifle when I purchased a type 99. If it doesn’t belong on the rifle, I would like to see if I can at least translate anything else that might be on it and repurpose it for something else more fitting. Thanks for the info. I really appreciate it. Be well and stay safe.
Si Vic Pacem, Para Bellum

 

[Dentanmono]

Did you post a picture or did you see that I had posted a picture on one of the Fb forums? I’m just trying to confirm the name and if anybody can identify what the item might be it was found tied to the rifle when I purchased a type 99. If it doesn’t belong on the rifle, I would like to see if I can at least translate anything else that might be on it and repurpose it for something else more fitting. Thanks for the info. I really appreciate it. Be well and stay safe.
Si Vic Pacem, Para Bellum

I just remembered the thread (What does this say?). Nothing wrong with getting a second opinion on the translations offered or new information. Just mentioning the theory incase it might help some of the experts here.

 

[Majestic]

Yes, Seki Kanemitsu points to a swordsmith, so the tag was probably once on a sword. The surrender tags I've seen are mostly scraps of wood or cloth with the owner's name on them. The tag on this item is a proper identity tag (not a scrap of cloth) and it hints that it was written with some care and preparation, whereas the surrender tags are usually very rough. Surrender tags also don't often comment on the sword inside, as it was kind of irrelevant. The swords confiscated in WW2 were mostly arsenal-made wartime blades, with no great value.
Even if the sword were a family heirloom brought to war, the confiscating GIs had no interest or education to appreciate who the maker might be. So it would be unusual for a Japanese soldier to write "this sword is presumed to be made by Kanemitsu of Seki" on a surrender tag. It feels to me that it is more like a tag from a pawn shop.

 

[Dentanmono]

Yes, Seki Kanemitsu points to a swordsmith, so the tag was probably once on a sword. The surrender tags I've seen are mostly scraps of wood or cloth with the owner's name on them. The tag on this item is a proper identity tag (not a scrap of cloth) and it hints that it was written with some care and preparation, whereas the surrender tags are usually very rough. Surrender tags also don't often comment on the sword inside, as it was kind of irrelevant. The swords confiscated in WW2 were mostly arsenal-made wartime blades, with no great value.
Even if the sword were a family heirloom brought to war, the confiscating GIs had no interest or education to appreciate who the maker might be. So it would be unusual for a Japanese soldier to write "this sword is presumed to be made by Kanemitsu of Seki" on a surrender tag. It feels to me that it is more like a tag from a pawn shop.

Makes sense, looking back at the gb thread, I misremembered what they had said, which was it was likely from a sword. No mention of having to do with surrender.

 

[ChefKilleenit]

Yes, Seki Kanemitsu points to a swordsmith, so the tag was probably once on a sword. The surrender tags I've seen are mostly scraps of wood or cloth with the owner's name on them. The tag on this item is a proper identity tag (not a scrap of cloth) and it hints that it was written with some care and preparation, whereas the surrender tags are usually very rough. Surrender tags also don't often comment on the sword inside, as it was kind of irrelevant. The swords confiscated in WW2 were mostly arsenal-made wartime blades, with no great value.
Even if the sword were a family heirloom brought to war, the confiscating GIs had no interest or education to appreciate who the maker might be. So it would be unusual for a Japanese soldier to write "this sword is presumed to be made by Kanemitsu of Seki" on a surrender tag. It feels to me that it is more like a tag from a pawn shop.

I know something like this is almost impossible to nail down a date, but would you say this is from the early 40s?

 

[Majestic]

Too hard to pin down. Could be the early 40's or 50's. The kanji for 會 (kai) is the old style, so my guess is early 50's. (The official simplification of some kanji took place in the 50's, even though the old style kanji remained in use, and in some instances is still in use today).

Could be 40's (or earlier). I just did a quick search on the internet, and there are still people named Shiiki living in that region. It's a slightly rare name, so the people living there would almost certainly be related to the person mentioned on this tag.

 

[Uncle Frank]

When I see your user name "ChefKilleenit" , I think you need a special avatar , LOL.

 

[Toritoribe]

I know something like this is almost impossible to nail down a date, but would you say this is from the early 40s?

The term 隣組 was basically used until the end of war. It's formally abolished in 1947, so the tag would be at least before that.

Tonarigumi - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I don't think 所 is missing after 会/會 on the tag, as the answerer guessed in the thread. 町内会 is an association, which is still used in some regions (I belong to 七区町内会 in my town, for example), so 第三町内会 means, as Majestic-san interpreted correctly, "third neighborhood association", not "Meeting place /Club on/inside the 3rd Street".

Chōnaikai - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org