Some sentence translation, help please

[kamuizero]

I have some sentences I don't understand very well, I need some help here please (I'll write them in romaji)

- Hako no nakami ga wakaranattara, yuubinkyouku de hauketsukenai (I don't know if the final verb is correct :S)

- Kono nimotsu wo hakobuno wo tetsudattekure kara, sen en haratteageru.

If someone can help me please :S, I'm having a hard time with these...

Thnx. in advance

 

[PaulTB]

I have some sentences I don't understand very well, I need some help here please (I'll write them in romaji)

- Hako no nakami ga wakaranattara, yuubinkyouku de hauketsukenai (I don't know if the final verb is correct :S)

箱の中身が分らなかったら、郵便局では受け付けない。
hako no nakami ga wakaranakattara, yuubinkyoku de wa uketukenai.
If [you] don't know what's in the box the post office won't take it.

- Kono nimotsu wo hakobuno wo tetsudattekure kara, sen en haratteageru.

この荷物を運ぶのを手伝ってくれから、千円払ってあげる。
Hmm, that looks a bit odd ...
You're helping move this luggage so I'll pay 1,000 yen. :?

 

[Mike Cash]

"luggage"?

 

[PaulTB]

"luggage"?

*shrug* Well the only 'nimotsu' I know of that gets 'hakobu' ed is

荷物 【にもつ】 luggage; baggage; (P)

is this some American English thing or am I missing something?

 

[Mike Cash]

That's why I purposely left my question brief and vague. I didn't wan't to chance embarassing myself by stumbling over some British English thing by mistake.

I always thought luggage was stuff along the lines of suitcases, valises, and (in the old days) steamer trunks.

On a side note, "freight" also gets hakobu'ed. And even though "freight" is 貨物 and not 荷物, I have noticed that many people in Japan seem to use 荷物 when referring to specific freight (such as on a specific truck or ship) and 貨物 to refer to it in a more general sort of way.

 

[Elizabeth]

That's why I purposely left my question brief and vague. I didn't wan't to chance embarassing myself by stumbling over some British English thing by mistake.

I always thought luggage was stuff along the lines of suitcases, valises, and (in the old days) steamer trunks.

On a side note, "freight" also gets hakobu'ed. And even though "freight" is 貨物 and not 荷物, I have noticed that many people in Japan seem to use 荷物 when referring to specific freight (such as on a specific truck or ship) and 貨物 to refer to it in a more general sort of way.

Going even more specific into this, I'm assuming 出荷 ( 【しゅっか】 (n,vs) shipping; outgoing freight; forwarding) is being used correctly here to mean approximately :

Inspecting Japanese car parts (at a US plant) and helping with outbound freight/shipments, I'm on my feet all the time and have to carry a great many very heavy boxes. :?

日本の車の部品の検査と出荷の手伝いで、立ちっぱなしでとても重い箱をたくさん持たなければなりません。

"luggage"?

Maybe carrying luggage is more descriptive, as opposed to simply moving it, which I wouldn't pay for at any rate....

 

[Scrivener]

- Kono nimotsu wo hakobuno wo tetsudattekure kara, sen en haratteageru.

That looks like a mistake there with "kure". Given the other example it should be a conditional form (if you help me). I suppose it could have been "kureru" (since you are going to help me I will pay you 1000 yen). Also I don't think you would tend to use "harau" with "ageru" because "ageru" implies you are helping someone out, while "harau" just means you are paying a fee. "Haratte ageru" sounds like "I will do you the favor of paying you your fee" - which would probably get a sarcastic response - "oh, are you actually going to pay me what you owe! What a saint you are!". If it was just say your nephew helping you, you wouldn't use "harau", you would just say "ageru" (or some less polite verb). That's my opinion anyway.

 

[PaulTB]

I always thought luggage was stuff along the lines of suitcases, valises, and (in the old days) steamer trunks.

Well usually, basically though it's just stuff that gets 'lugged'

I have noticed that many people in Japan seem to use 荷物 when referring to specific freight (such as on a specific truck or ship) and 貨物 to refer to it in a more general sort of way.

Ah. Well if anybody would know that you would.

That looks like a mistake there with "kure". Given the other example it should be a conditional form (if you help me).

But could you have くればから ?

I suppose it could have been "kureru" (since you are going to help me I will pay you 1000 yen).

Which is plausible - I thought it looked odd.

Also I don't think you would tend to use "harau" with "ageru" because "ageru" implies you are helping someone out, while "harau" just means you are paying a fee. "Haratte ageru" sounds like "I will do you the favor of paying you your fee"

払ってあげる gets 637 Google hits which is low enough to be 'not tend to' I suppose but not enough to call wrong IMO.

 

[Scrivener]

払ってあげる just sounds odd to me. If you look at the Google hits some are like "I will pay it to him, instead of you paying it to him". Ageru has a sense of "doing a favor" which to me doesn't go well will "to pay a fee (that is owing)", unless you are doing someone else a favor by paying it on their behalf, or something.

You can't have くればから, it's one (くれば) or the other (くれるから). I thought it might be a typo for "kuretara" or something.

 

[Glenn]

Heh, I thought it should have been くれたから. By the way, shouldn't the -ba conditional of くれる be くれれば?

 

[Elizabeth]

"Kure kara" could be the command form I suppose -- because I'm asking you to carry the luggage I'll pay you for it, but it somehow comes off odd to me as well.

 

[Glenn]

Yeah, I've never heard anything like おとなしくしろから, and that just doesn't seem to make any sense to me. "Because 'keep quiet'..." :?

 

[wakaP]

As Scrivener poited out, 'kure kara' is a typo for 「くれたら」(kuretara).

By the way, shouldn't the -ba conditional of くれる be くれれば

その通りです。ですが，おしい！(That's almost perfectly right....Close!)
-[re]baだけでなく-taraもconditional form をつくります。
「たられば」とおぼえてください。(Let's remember 'tara-reba')
Both くれたら and くれれば are conditional of くれる.
「たら」 is more conversational than 「れば」.
We sometimes use 「たられば」itself to reffer something on an assumption.
For example,
「それは，たられば の話でしょ」（That's no more than an assumption.）

===
週末なのに仕事です。来週も，再来週も。。。

 

[Glenn]

その通りです。ですが，おしい！(That's almost perfectly right....Close!)
-[re]baだけでなく-taraもconditional form をつくります。
「たられば」とおぼえてください。(Let's remember 'tara-reba')
Both くれたら and くれれば are conditional of くれる.
「たら」 is more conversational than 「れば」.
We sometimes use 「たられば」itself to reffer something on an assumption.
For example,
「それは，たられば の話でしょ」（That's no more than an assumption.）

So くれたれば is a possible conditional for くれる? :?

 

[wakaP]

So くれたれば is a possible conditional for くれる? :?

No.
くれた is the past tense of くれる。
When you want conditional for くれた, you can say くれたならば／くれたなら.
You can say also くれるならば／くれるなら for conditional for くれる.

Now, I can say that
ならば／なら is easier than たら／れば to use for making conditional form.

 

[Glenn]

Alright, cause you said 惜しい I thought you were saying that there was more to it, like a たられば form or something. That's good to know about たられば; I had no idea there was anything like that.

 

[wakaP]

Alright, cause you said 惜しい I thought you were saying that there was more to it, like a たられば form or something. That's good to know about たられば; I had no idea there was anything like that.

Oh, sorry, It seems I had confused you. (ごめんなさい。混乱させたようですね。)

By the way, I also have to say that most of young people don't use 「たられば」.
I'd say it would be a word for older people. (どちらかといえば，年配の人が使う言葉です。それも男性。)

 

[Glenn]

(どちらかといえば，年配の人が使う言葉です。それも男性。)

By 年配 do you mean "middle-aged people?" That is, do you mean people in their 40s-50s?

 

[wakaP]

By 年配 do you mean "middle-aged people?" That is, do you mean people in their 40s-50s?

I mean older (elder?) than 40s.
When we mean "middle-aged people", we say "中年".

=== For your information ＜from 大辞林＞===
ねん-ぱい [0] 【年輩・年配】
（１）ある範囲内の，およその年齢。年のほど。「同じ窶?#12398;人」「五〇窶?#12398;男」
（２）相当の年齢。中年以上にいう。「声から察すると窶?#12398;人らしい」

 

[Glenn]

I mean older (elder?) than 40s.
When we mean "middle-aged people", we say "中年".

=== For your information ＜from 大辞林＞===
ねん-ぱい [0] 【年輩・年配】
（１）ある範囲内の，およその年齢。年のほど。「同じ窶?#12398;人」「五〇窶?#12398;男」
（２）相当の年齢。中年以上にいう。「声から察すると窶?#12398;人らしい」

Well, that's my problem. I was looking at the 中年以上にいう part, but forgot about the 以上. :banghead: *sigh* This just goes to illustrate what PaulTB, mikecash, and I commented on in another thread.