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Should JAPAN be selective about asylum and immigration?

jihadjay said:
Should Japan be selective about asylum and immigration?
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I agree with your post jihaday.

Japan should stay primarily Japanese.

Modern Americans and Europeans are only taught about the benefits of multi ethnic and multi religious nations but not their drawbacks ﾂ… It is because the west is desperately hoping that its current expiriment will ﾂ"work outﾂ" and needs its citizens to endorse the idea. Hence, the strongly felt comments of some of the people on this forum.

My opinion is that if Japan allowed massive immigration it would cease to be japan. I think the japanese are wise to limit immigration.

I think japan will still be a dynamic force in 200 years... I am not so sure about america and europe.
 
Tokyo-monster said:
That is a load of political crap
Canada is BY FAR more dynamic than the United States, and everyone in the entire world seems to know this except for the US. And... an economic nation? The economy of the US is cracking.
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Canada is a country of around 30 million. the United states is a country of around 300 million.

There is no comparision ... except that canada is, or at least was when I visited it 15 years ago, a nicer place.
 
Japan is already extremelt selective by Western standards regarding asylum seekers and refugees. I started a thread on this topic 4 years ago almost day to day.

As for regular immigration, most of the foreign residents and naturalised Japanese are from Korea and China (see stats), so it does feel like they are being selective about the visas. The vast majority of permanent residents and naturalised Japanese are also Asian. Most Westerners only stay in Japan for a few months or years.

Japan does not yet have a significant (let's say over 1% of the population) minority group from one different ethnic* or religious origin, unlike most Western European countries which now have big Muslim communities (between 3 and 10% of the population depending on the country). The largest ethnic and religious minority are the Catholic South Americans, which make up about 0.2% of the total population.

* I consider the Koreans and Chinese to belong to the same ethnicity as the Japanese, as it is too hard to tell them apart, especially if they all speak fluently Japanese.
 
I've also written about it several times on this site. Japan's immigration system is a separate issue (if one exists) to that of their (very poor) record of Asylum. To those interested, I'll refer you (again) to this very well written article here:

Part One: Here

Part Two: ...here

Here is at least one of the threads started by Maciamo:

https://jref.com/showthread.php?t=1055

Personally, I don't feel that this some sort of issue that should even be debated. Accepting those who seek asylum due to unjust threat to their very lives is a basic tenet of the ideals of human rights, & should be followed by any country which wishes to respect and preserve those rights.

It's sadly coincidental that it was a Japanese woman whom recently tried to abuse the Asylum laws in order to preserve her stay within Australia... The thread in which I wrote about this particular subject is also somewhere here on JREF.
 

Well, quite clearly yuko the Japanese don't want a lot of immigration in their country and they don't want to become a dumping ground for the worlds poor.

In this day and age that is a pretty big ground with the world population at 6 billion and expected to rise to 9 billion by the year 2050.

I do think that, for example, if America continues down the
road she is going with projections of 1 billion people by the year 2100 largely from immigration from 3rd world countries America may become virtually unlivable. It is a legitimate topic.

I think that Japan, like Russia who is also careful about immigration, have a history of what it means to be a defeated nation and a defeated people. They also understand the importance of being a unified people in times of trouble. I think the Japanese have a right to self determination. When a natural disaster strikes a country like japan, everybody pulls together. When a natural disaster strikes america, people shoot at the rescue helicopters and loot the city.

To say that the Japanese have no right to debate the issue is flat out wrong. The Japanese, in any event, are always very careful about the things they do ﾂ… I believe they have chosen a wise course of action, the only sane and far sighted option available to them. A culture like japan thinks 100's of years backwards and 100's of years forward. The United States with 200 short years of history can barely think 5 years ahead.

I'm sorry, but despite western criticism and western liberal values, I think the japanese are very wise on this issue.
 
kellymich said:
I'm sorry, but despite western criticism and western liberal values, I think the japanese are very wise on this issue.
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I totally agree. If only more European politicians could understand that...
 
The only catch is Japan's crashing birth-rate, I'm sure it will be entirely feesable for Japan to maintain a strict anti-immigration policy as its population plummets and its unable to find the labour to maintain its precious place in the world economy.
 
I do think that, for example, if America continues down the
road she is going with projections of 1 billion people by the year 2100 largely from immigration from 3rd world countries America may become virtually unlivable. It is a legitimate topic.
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That unlivable America is much more confortable than present Japan.
 
Just a thought on statistics, if population density is the determining factor of a livable country...

At around 130 million inhabitants in Japan, that's about 890 people per square mile. with 300 million inhabitants, the US's population density is one tenth of that. Assuming that the US population does more than triple in the next century (to 1 billion), the population density would still be only about 270 people per square mile. That's still less than a third of Japan, assuming the population of Japan remains unchanged (and that we're not all under water by 2100...)

Or was the implication that such a population boom brought on by rampant immigration would lower the standard of living because said immigrants would bring their quality of life to the US (as someone said, "a dumping ground for the worlds poor")?
 

Yes, that's a valid point. But the japanese have a culture and a unity which allows them to live cheek and jowl. Ironically, many people on this board are criticizing them for not wanting to change the culture that allows so many japanese to live peacefully and in close proximity.

But lets consider India -- at the turn of the century india had 200 million peopleﾂ… they now have around 1 billion people. This came from internal population growth from a country with centuries of traditions. Neverthless, very few westerners would want to trade places with the life of the average Indian.

Even with 300 million people america is coming a apart at the seams with racial tensions, gangs, drugs use etc. etc. As an example, in california's once vaunted public education system 1 out of 3 children now drop out.

I don't think it can be denied the importance of culture for a stable and prosperous America ﾂ… and no matter where anybody stands on the subject, I think they would have to admit that adding another 700 million people of different races and cultures to america sucessfully is going to be no small feat. To me, the idea seems somewhat mad.

I would prefer that america focus on quality, and not on quantity.

I recently took a tour though the underbelly of los angeles, its prisons, its asylums, its slums, and it doesn't take genius to see the tremendous destructive tensions that exist as a result of America's experiments as well as the 1000's of lives that are being lost. I compared my trip in los angeles to my experiences in europe and in japan and I came to the conclusion that the situation in los angeles is quite grave culturally compared to societies like Japan and even Germany.

I think we need to begin to ask ourselves, what is the goal of our society and what kind of people do we wish to produce and value ? Culture is a very important thing.
 
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The problem is human males are constantly fertile and females fertile for a bit every month, and ontop of our relatively frequent sexual activity and ability to enjoy it, its just asking to over-populate.

What the human race needs is more stricter checks on our ability to spawn little nooblets.


On a plus side, as Japanese population falls and the economy falls, causing quality of life to fall, there will be higher incidents of less edumacated people, and more people with less demands on their time *cough*perhapsunemployed*cough* and therefore more making fun sexy times which would arrest the freefall and bring the population up, perhaps it is a halway effective natural check on our numbers, who knows.

[/rant]
 
kellymich said:
Well, quite clearly yuko the Japanese don't want a lot of immigration in their country and they don't want to become a dumping ground for the worlds poor.
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What part of my post did you miss where I stipulated the difference between ASYLUM & IMMIGRATION.

The problems with American immigration is that if say an illegal immigrant gives birth to a child, that child becomes a naturalized American citizen, at a certain age, that child's parent will also then become a citzen, as well as grandmothers etcetera...

Imigration in Europe is different entirely, where you have a country like Italy whose onus it is to stem the tide of immigrants from countries within Africa...

kellymich said:
I do think that, for example, if America continues down the road she is going with projections of 1 billion people by the year 2100 largely from immigration from 3rd world countries America may become virtually unlivable.
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So you're saying that the tide of foreignern hordes washing upon the shores of the Americas will destabilize it, simply by force? You're probably not the first person to make this assumption... There simply needs to be a set of fair & humane immigration laws that deal with those who want to honestly integrate into the country. I find it a shame that a good portion of foreign residents chose to speak to their children in their native languages first, and English only secondary... Often, the parents are not even able to speak English and use their children as proxies... In Japan, raising a child like this would be considered not simply ludicrous, but almost like a form of developmental retardation.

kellymich said:
It is a legitimate topic.
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Immigration may be a legitmate topic, but you seem to have either not read my post at all, or misunderstood the word "asylum", or the post in general.

kellymich said:
I think that Japan, like Russia who is also careful about immigration, have a history of what it means to be a defeated nation and a defeated people.
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Yes, in Russia and the former Soviet Union, there is also a deep rooted amount of racism towards many different peoples... So, motives like this aren't good for dealing w/ Immigration... simply because it makes you feel better about yourselves as a nation.

kellymich said:
To say that the Japanese have no right to debate the issue is flat out wrong.
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Please show my where I even sugested that any nation had no right to debate it's own immigration issues, please.


kellymich said:
A culture like japan thinks 100's of years backwards and 100's of years forward. The United States with 200 short years of history can barely think 5 years ahead.
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Japan, like the United States makes descisions on immigration in order to not just preserve a type of culture, but to improve it in the future... This 100 years back and forth nonsense is simply that, nonsense.

Maciamo said:
I totally agree. If only more European politicians could understand that...
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I'm sorry, I don't think I understand what you are agreeing with... Is it that the intent of immigration control is to prevent the dilution of a nation's cultural base, lest it be corrupted?

I suppose that these are the types of ideas that lead nations like France to institute a policy that everyone migrating to France (largely because they are filling skilled technical jobs which are not being filled by native French for some reason[...] I'll let readers ponder that.) to adopt propper adoption of the accepted ideals of 'French culture', beyond simply language.*

*I'd like to note that language-adoption should be a minimum requirement for immigration to a country, and the United States fails completely in this aspect as far as immigration is concerned.
 
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yukio_michael said:
What part of my post did you miss where I stipulated the difference between ASYLUM & IMMIGRATION.
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Asylum has been used and abused in the western countries and a large proportion of asylum seekers are little more than legal immigrants
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I am saying that even the most ardent supporter of immigration cannot deny the enormous problems that will come with 700 million new people in america of differing ethnicities, cultures, religions etc. etc. It very well may prove to be utterly ruinous to the country. It will largely depend on the culture of the nation, but with so many different cultures and interests, it will be very hard to have anything on a wide scale but a shared lowest comman denominator and factional interests based on race, language, and perhaps religion. After the movements of the 1960's we had all hoped and expected that race would cease to be such a prevailing motive and yet racial tensions between blacks, whites, and hispanics are probably worse now than they were in the 1970's and 1980's. Perhaps the situation can improve but the extremists are working overtime these days to polarize the various groups.


There are many prejudices and biases among peoples of all nations.
I have travelled a good deal and all peoples have at least some bias and prejudices based upon race and culture.

Most africans, chinese, japanese and indians that I have met would fit into modern definitions of racist. if I were to try to become a zimbaweian, a chinese, a korean, a japanese I would always suffer from the fact that racially and culturally I am not quite "one of them".

I would point out that the Russian people have lived under the most dire circumstances for 100's of years. To them, issues of national identity and culture are not mere intellectual exercises. They have felt the sting and the horror of culture gone sour, of invasions, and have experienced the darkest side of man's potential for tyranny. I think it is understandable for them to be reluctant to cavalierly introduce the wild card of multiculturalism and excessive immigration to their country. The Russian people like any other people have the right to self determination. If they wish to remain a people that is their right. This does not mean that they necessarily hate other nations or other peoples.

yukio_michael said:
Japan, like the United States makes descisions on immigration in order to not just preserve a type of culture, but to improve it in the future... This 100 years back and forth nonsense is simply that, nonsense..
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I don't think that it is nonsense... culture doesn't just happen. But to a rootless american, I can see why it might seem nonsense.

Japanese subtleties and customs developed over centuries. They are customs and subtleties which could not have possibly developed in a country like the united states. The incomparably high artistic developments in japan could only come about in a nation with centuries of living tradition passed down and refined from generation to generation. In the united states, because of the nature of its society whenever anything is constellated it is quickly overthrown and very little of real value is ever created. In a country of 300 million people the question why the majority of America's artists are the worst in the world answers itself, if you take a look at the culture. Culture does need to move forward, but it can't develop in a vacuum and spring up from nothingness. High culture is always based on the developments of precursers and traditions. It is quite possible and even likely for culture to move backwards especially when you are dealing with the masses and the great numbers of the world. America had a few small beginings of a very real, distinct, and dynamic culture with Ralph Waldo Emerson, Walt Whitman, and the like, but it has come to nothing.

The reason people are so facinated by japan is the culture.

yukio_michael said:
*I'd like to note that language-adoption should be a minimum requirement for immigration to a country, and the United States fails completely in this aspect as far as immigration is concerned.
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I would agree with you that at least a basic requirement for a nation is language. If we don't have that than any kind of national unity is out of the question. Clearly something is going to have to pull people together if it is going to work. We are rushing headlong into massive and unprecedented changes which will change the entire ethnic and cultural makeup of america over a very short period of time. Given man's history, at the very least, we should admit that it will be very problematic. If we are going to do this, at the very least we need to go into it with our eyes wide open. I will be honest when I tell you that I personally fear the world that we are bequeathing to our decendants. Each generation of americans, up until this one, has expected that their generation would do a little better than the previous one. I don't think most american's feel that way anymore. If we listen carefully to what is going on in the public schools where incidentally 1 out of 3 students in california now drops out, in the universities, and in the newspapers I think we can understand why. What little national culture we ever had is falling to pieces, but it is not being replaced by something better.

Whether or not something constellates that can move america where it needs to be remains to be seen... but a nation is only as good as the quality and the psychological health of its people. Right now in the prototype of multiculuralism, los angeles, people have hunkered down into enclaves. Most people here have very little sense of community, or trust and anyone who is able sends their children to private schools. If the los angeles of today is the future of america, it is going to be an ugly future. Whether or not we can turn all this dross and all these disparate elements into gold remains to be seen. I am not for homogeneity, but some things have to pull a people and a nation together or else you have anarchy, civil war etc. etc.

If the situation in los angeles were different I would say so... but having been all over the world I think I am in a relatively good position to diagnose what is wrong with los angeles. You can't look at press releases and travel brochures, you have to go on the streets and among the people. I would say that the average man on the street of all races in los angeles has a deep sense of dislocation, fear and disquiet in this city -- they are trying to escape, to "get away". Most of them feel the only way to do that is to make lots of money.
 
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kellymich said:
Asylum has been used and abused in the western countries and a large proportion of asylum seekers are little more than legal immigrants.
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Did you mean to say legal immigrants? Asylum seekers are people who fear agrievous harm or persecution should they return to their own countries. I don't doubt that people abuse the asylum system, however, this is no reason to simply deny people asylum. Japan's record on asylum is abysmal. Again, these aren't debatable issues, you simply have to look at the numbers.

The United States was built by colonialists who built a nation upon the backs of refugees who sought a better life there. It's already multi-ethnic, in every way possible. At the federal level, the United States does not even have an official language. If you thought it was English, you were incorrect. I don't know where, and over what time frame you're getting the number of 700 milion, seventy percent of a billion immigrants, but I suspect it's just hyperbole to make your point seem more urgent.

kellymich said:
[...]it will be very hard to have anything on a wide scale but a shared lowest comman denominator and factional interests based on race, language, and perhaps religion.
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Control of the interests of the United States is in the hands of the upper two to one percent who control the wealth, and has for the most part, always been. Their agendas are served first and foremeost, and much like the prolatariat in Orwell's 1984, the masses are either too dumbfounded, or too defeated to change this very much.

kellymich said:
After the movements of the 1960's we had all hoped and expected that race would cease to be such a prevailing motive and yet racial tensions between blacks, whites, and hispanics are probably worse now than they were in the 1970's and 1980's.
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Really. How so? Please give me some indication that race relations are worse... When people are actually considering a black candidate for the presidency, they can't be too much worse. They certainly aren't as awful as the racial tensions which exist, and have existed in Europe.

kellymich said:
Perhaps the situation can improve but the extremists are working overtime these days to polarize the various groups.
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Extremists have the internet, which is a wider audidence than one gained from photo-copied pamphlets. I don't know if there is any indication that they are working "overtime" or even any better at undermining race relations.

Believe it or not, a lot of societies do not accept foreigners as "one of them". Englanders are known to still think of foreign residents as not truly being English, regardless of their nationality... But I don't want to go off on a tangent.

kellymich said:
I would point out that the Russian people have lived under the most dire circumstances for 100's of years.
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The've also inflicted a great deal of agony over the last few hundreds of years as well. Not just upon their own people, but on any who uposed them. An estimated seven to nine million people in the Ukraine were killed by Stalin, by effectively starving them to death through forced famine. Within the state you could look forward to being sent off to the Gulag archipelligo if your views seemed even remotely against it. But let's take a few moments to feel sorry for the dire circumstances of the Russian people, and how they got themselves there.

kellymich said:
[...]and have experienced the darkest side of man's potential for tyranny.
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Again, they've also been responsible for the darkest side of man's potential for tyranny... even recently. So much so, that I can't fathom how you can make this statement without the least bit of the acknowlegement of irony inherent to it. It would take a colossal effort to dismiss their actions throughout the history of communism--- It's impossible to talk about the Russian state, even at present, at a time when the oligarchs, men who rode the destruction of their own country to heights of great wealth seem to be at odds with Putin, without there being an intrinstic idea consistant with those of a tyranny, of either fear, or wealth or otherwise.

kellymich said:
The Russian people like any other people have the right to self determination. If they wish to remain a people that is their right. This does not mean that they necessarily hate other nations or other peoples.
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Yes, this has nothing to do with asylum.

kellymich said:
They are customs and subtleties which could not have possibly developed in a country like the united states.
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This statement isn't right, ...it's not even wrong. It simply has no meaning or bearing on the subject whatsoever.

kellymich said:
The incomparably high artistic developments in japan could only come about in a nation with centuries of living tradition passed down and refined from generation to generation.
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Do you make a point of avoiding all history that is contrary to your own opinion, or do you simply espouse views like this that make it seem as if you do? I'm not even going to argue this statement. Yes, the artwork in Japan could only come from Japan. You've certainly got that right.

kellymich said:
In the united states, because of the nature of its society whenever anything is constellated it is quickly overthrown and very little of real value is ever created.
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I know of thousands of authors, painters, and musicians who would feel quite at odds with this statement. I'm not going to give you a lesson on the history of American art, but you should look into it. What are you basing your opinions on? You seem to have the type of knowledge of American history that one might get from collecting matchbooks at a 50's style diner.

kellymich said:
Each generation of americans, up until this one, has expected that their generation would do a little better than the previous one. I don't think most american's feel that way anymore.
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Yes, I agree with you 100%. This has nothing to do with racism, culture, or immigration however.

kellymich said:
[...]but having been all over the world I think I am in a relatively good position to diagnose what is wrong with los angeles.
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I don't think you're in a relatively good position to find your own backside, honestly.

I could pick apart each of the things that you've said, and you've said so many, that are simply either hyperbole, agrandisement, opinion, or outright condemnation of a society you seem not to understand, but this seems fruitless...

You seem to me, to be a nationalistic, racist, historically-ignorant person. I know that this seems to be an insult, and I won't add a "please don't be offended"... But from the viewpoints you espouse, concerning the near perfection of the Japanese society, the asylum seekers you refer to as simply criminal rabble, your base and frankly limited knowlege of American history, right down to your own need to somehow justify Russia's own innocence, you seem to have qualified yourself for this label.

Asylum is a basic human right, and if you feel so, you also feel that any free country which respects human rights respects the great need to accept those who in truth are persecuted by their own countries.

Please see above. This is my point. Nothing you have said has had anything to do with it other than your specious claim that asylum seekers are simply immigrants, illegal or otherwise.

If you have something to respond allong these lines please do. Any other sort of subject matter will simply be ignored.

PS. I'll remind you, in one of your posts, you praise James Clavell's novel Shogun, while dissmissing its historical inaccuracy (something you seem to brush aside as if it were not quite necissary...), as, I'm quoting you, a work of art.

I really don't feel you do find much need for historical accuracy, but I think I understand now more of your idea & appreciation for Western "art".
 
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Its not an experiment, its common sense.

I want to be able to just live and get on with things with my fellow man, white black or orange, without my friends or even relations being tormented and me aswell because of smething as insugnificant as skin colour.

You do relise how insugnificant that is?, the worlds problems are cultural & ignorance, not racial.

Its just common human respect, my mate "Bob" (not his real name) is a smart human being, he likes basket ball, he enjoys my type of music and wants to pass the same course I'm studying, he is born and bred within the UK, he comes from Montrose and consiros himself Scottish.

Should that be taken from him, should our friendship be frowned upon because he is of Chinese descent?.

Am I somehow criminally guilty for having sexual and emotional intimate relations with a Japanese girl?, am I instead of greeting an asian shop worker, to spit in his face and shout profanities at him because his skin is darker then mine?, am I to smack up a passing black man who otherwise has done me no offense because his skin is brown?.


Seriously, what planet do you live on?.


Dont mistake your views as fact, their based on noe thnig and one thing alone, pure ignorance.

A human being is a human being, the differences, are literally only skin deep.

As for ethnic tensions, these are caused by cultural differences.
 

I know, I simply disagree that japan should be forced to accept "assylum seekers". With the world population at 6 billion and expected to be 9 billion by the year 2050 there are huge numbers of people at this very moment and their will be huge numbers in the future who face poverty and death for a variety of reasons ... it is ugly I know but the solution to these problems does not come from japan opening her country to everyone in the world who has a problem.


The population projections in America if legal and illegal immigration continue as it is for the year 2050 is around 500 million and for the year 2100 is around 1 billion. The size of the population of India.

By the year 2100 many demographers estimate there will be 700 million more people in America than today if current trends continue. Since 1970 to the present the population in America has gone up by 33% mostly because of immigration. It has gone from 200 million to 300 million.

Dont take my word for it. The statistics are easy enough to verify in the computer age.


There are so many indications of worsening race relations for those who care to see the problem and not "look away" that I am surprised by your surprise. I would suggest for a start listening to the rethoric of black and latino politicians, talking to people on the streets of a city like los angeles, and even listening to the undercurrents in popular culture such as rap music which does not even make small attempts to disguise its race hatreds in this wildly popular "music" (I hope you understand my right to quotations). Even the mainstream media, never known for their courage regarding race relations, speaks of the two americas. Actually, there are now three quite polarized americas - white, black and latino.

yukio_michael said:
Believe it or not, a lot of societies do not accept foreigners as "one of them". Englanders are known to still think of foreign residents as not truly being English, regardless of their nationality... But I don't want to go off on a tangent.
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Um, I believe it. Nobody ever really accepts someone who is truly "not one of them". Never have, never will. It is not necessarily based on race.


Well, do you think that if america were the only country in the world she could produce a bach, build a mayan temple, or create a shinto garden ? Not bloody likely my friend. What matters if we give every human being in the world a house and food and their lives are dull, harried, without meaning, and empty ?


For whatever it is worth I studied music composition at peabody conservatory in baltimore and have lived and worked among artists my entire life. One of the things I am vitally concerned about in america is its culture. Many artists in america feel or come to understand that the american art scene, generally speaking, cannot hold a candle to europe. The first thing that the american artist is astonished with when he goes to europe is that it produces mature artists ... the average american has never really been exposed to mature art... many of our best artists have had to travel to places like france before anything of any value could begin to occur to them. For example, Would we have produced a jessica lange and henry miller if they had been stuck in america ? I doubt it. The artist in america is an endangered species, he has nearly been hunted to extinction.


You have put words in my mouth based on your own views and prejudices. My point is that I believe japan should have a policy to stay primarily japanese. I never said the japanese were perfect or near perfect. There are many needy and desperate people in the world and I do not condemn them because they are needy and desperate.

If you think that somehow the Russian confederation was different than the muslim confederations, or the Chinese confederation, or any other confederations and empires in human history, you are quite mistaken and perhaps the only place suitable for you to live is on the moon. If I understand you correctly, you have, it appears to me, perversely blamed the russian/soviet people for marxism stalinism and perhaps even hitler's invasion. It is not my job to provide a history of the soviet union but the majority of the Soviet/Russian people were undeniably victims of that period. To blame the soviet/russians is like blaming a rape victim for being raped. My point which you did not seem to understand is that the dark seed of the horrors that occurred in the soviet union lurks in every single human being on the planet ... all that is needed are the right conditions for it to grow. Any people like the soviets or the japanese who have suffered the things they did during that period will be naturally cautious about massive social changes and upheavals, -- as well they should be. Defeat is a great teacher.
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yukio_michael said:
B]Asylum is a basic human right, and if you feel so, you also feel that any free country which respects human rights respects the great need to accept those who in truth are persecuted by their own countries.[/B].
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I disagree that a country "has to" accept a foreign citizen for assylum or for immigration.

If you were to be fair to me you would see in that post I said shogun was not historically accurate ... therefore your claim that I don't find a need for historical accuracy is obviously false. I myself pointed out that it was not historically accurate.

Nevertheless historical accuracy or even morality and ethics has nothing to do with "good art". Good art, is good art.

What does king arthur and the round table or hieronymous bosch have to with the historical accuracy of medieval europe ? -- very little. What do they have to do with the human soul and values of medieval europe ? - quite a bit.

I'll defend the right of countries like japan for self determination and the right to a unique culture ... Japan does not have a moral obligation to become a New York City... Japan's obligation is to her history, her future, to her people, and to be a good member of the community of nations.
 
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kellymich said:
If I understand you correctly, you have, it appears to me, perversely blamed the russian/soviet people for marxism stalinism and perhaps even hitler's invasion.
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I don't know how you could have formed this opinion based on what I've said. This is one of a few reasons why I'm keeping my word and dropping the discussion.

It's late and I'm not going to comb through all of the data, but just giving a cursory look, the information I get back from the Center for Disease Control (CDC)'s interface to US Census data predictions doesn't seem to match your predictions.

The predicted difference in population between 2004 & 2030 for all genders & ages is 70,783,864 about a tenth of your projections for until, did you say 2050 was it? This is of course based on, and I'm quoting the website here:

The projections are produced with the general assumption that recent state-specific trends in fertility, mortality, domestic migration, and international migration will continue.
Click to expand...
Population Projections United States, 2004 - 2030

There's the link for anyone curious.

Thanks for the discussion.
 

Well, you said-- ﾂ"your base and frankly limited knowlege of American history, right down to your own need to somehow justify Russia's own innocenceﾂ" ﾂ… implies that Russia is somehow guilty and brought on herself the upheavals that occurred in her country.. The point I had originally made was that both Russia and Japan had suffered tremendous upheavals in the past and therefore they are understandably reticent to allow large numbers of foreign peoples to their shores.

US population data below from the census bureau ... this message board will not let me add the url. I would be happy to message it to you. There is a low range estimate, a middle range estimate and a high range estimate. The following is the high range estimate.

year 2000 275 million
year 2025 380 million
year 2050 552 million
year 2100 1 billion 182 million

Thank you as well, for the discussion.
 

I am not saying you shouldn't have a Japanese girlfriend or a black friend ﾂ… you're being a little melodramatic my friend.

We are all human beings... more or less.
 
yes they should, there are countries that wants to be a single race country, why can't the western people just let it go? they aren't causing any harm to other countries or promote hate against other races, they just want to preserve their race thats all. im not saying multicultural country is a bad idea.

its irony that america will become a one mixed race(asian/black/white/hispanic) in future is that label as one race country?
 

They do harm other races, they do harm themselves and they promote hatred.

I think biologically the differences are so minor between the "races" that they do not warrant to be labeled as such.

I would love to hear your definition of race, btw.

So, why do they harm other races? They do so simply by restricting the gene flow thus decreasing the variations within the gene pool of homo sapiens. This is also the reason why they harm themselves.
And they promote hatred insofar, that other people are considered inferior or dangerous. Why else are they not allowed to live with a "pure" race?
(Emmigration can cause hatred as well, though.)

They will become "a one mixed race"? I do not see that happen biologically.
 
To me the things you say are no small madness.

But it certainly is indicative of the hubris of many westerners, especially propagandized american liberals ... as if the japanese have some duty to share their genes... or that is somehow hateful to be a people.

Only very recently, and only among some deranged minds in the west,would these ideas have any currency. It is fortunant that the japanese seem to have a good and still intact instinct for what is best for them. This probably stems from their long history and their history of taking from the west only what they want to take.

They will be polite to you, and then they will do what they want to do... no matter how much you rave or believe in the "righteousness" of your presumptous and impertinant views.
 
Um, I believe it. Nobody ever really accepts someone who is truly "not one of them". Never have, never will. It is not necessarily based on race.
Click to expand...

It would be interesting to define 'them' in America.

But it certainly is indicative of the hubris of many westerners, especially propagandized american liberals ... as if the japanese have some duty to share their genes... or that is somehow hateful to be a people.
Click to expand...

You seem to have missed a main point in this discussion. No one is asking them to share, rather to lessen the discrimination practiced in Japan. I suppose you like being refused entry to an apartment, etc.. I will have to look for those 'no Japanese signs' in LA next time I vist there !
 
No doubt that the Japanese should be less discriminatory to foreigners.

But I beg to differ with you ﾂ… some people are asking them to become merely another multi cultural new york.

My feeling is that this would so change the character of japan that it would not be a good thing. But The japanese can decide for themsleves ... I find westerners who criticize them for not doing so extremely arrogent and I feel they need to be taken down a notch or two for meddling in things which they have no business.-- Like the destiny of a people, a culture, and a nation.

In short, if the japanese wish to become like multicultural new york that is their business -- but it is not ours.
 
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