SEX!!!

Japan tends to be passively direct about the subject. It will pop up all over on the outside in certain areas, but not really discussed unless behind doors. I've seen people shudder at any sign of it, I've seen people giggle.
A reaction that you will get in a great many other countries. I find it in the UK and have found it in the US and Canada
I've seen a 20 something housewife walk down the street with her bicycle caring a large box with a home-version of a stripping pole right through my neighborhood.
It is actually quite a good way of keeping fit and their have been a few people that use it for just that, keeping fit.


Clearly there is a great deal of shock value in a documentary like this. The portrayal of Japan's over all opinion by the BBC is generalized,
Spot on and therefore not a good example of research.
from those I have spoken with on the subject I am consistently concerned about the LACK of knowledge on the subject of sex despite its prevalence in Japan.
Again, not a good example on documented reasearch. If opinions counted then this world would be still in the dark ages.

I have spoken with researchers on the subject in the past but I was very curious what members of this board think, especial those with long terms in the country.
Instead of saying you have spoken to researchers could you actually give us some links to research/articles rather than word of mouth?
 
6) just what was the whole point of bringing up the rape club video? Want to talk about it? Talk, Emoni. Offer some opinion other than the pseudo-narrative you wrote as a lead-in.

To mix in the positive with the negative. To show one example of where the "general view of sex in Japan" can go too far, and was allowed to for quite some time.

Instead of saying you have spoken to researchers could you actually give us some links to research/articles rather than word of mouth?

Can't, as these were just conversations and just that. During that time I didn't look up the research as I couldn't read the Japanese. The reason I posted this thread is to find out more both in research AND personal experience and views of posters.
 
Mix the positive with the negative? Where have you shown much, if any, positive?

Is anyone else even the slightest bit irritated that Emoni has constantly refused to cite any documented evidence for the claims she had with people that have extensive experience in research on this topic? Repeated questions have asked for something more concrete, and now we get this:
Originally Posted by Mycernius View Post

Instead of saying you have spoken to researchers could you actually give us some links to research/articles rather than word of mouth?

Emoni:
Can't, as these were just conversations and just that. During that time I didn't look up the research as I couldn't read the Japanese.
I'm sure there has been plenty of useful material in English! Besides, it's getting a bit boring to see no replies to direct questions. In some circles that is known as trolling.
 
Mix the positive with the negative? Where have you shown much, if any, positive?
Is anyone else even the slightest bit irritated that Emoni has constantly refused to cite any documented evidence for the claims she had with people that have extensive experience in research on this topic? Repeated questions have asked for something more concrete, and now we get this:
I'm sure there has been plenty of useful material in English! Besides, it's getting a bit boring to see no replies to direct questions. In some circles that is known as trolling.

I'm becoming exceedingly disappointed with the highly defensive and aggressive responses to what was simply a post discussing both videos along with personal commentary and sharing curiosity. The most obvious sense of "positive" is personally agreeing with the open and more prevalent aspects in the country in certain areas.

I've made it very clear that the conversations and experiences I have had are NOT accademic, even if my curiosity borders on such aims. Going into details about the specifics of private conversations I hesitate to do so not only for privacy reasons, but also because it was simply over years of time and to re-piece every comment would not be entirely productive. If you are looking for a bibliography of each experience, conversation, and book of personal experiences and talks I've had with people you have very high expectations of my ability to catalog my life.

My response to you Glenski is this, chill please. Since when did posting out of sincere curiosity, listing a few recent finds to what lead me to thinking about the topic more, and a few personal experiences deserve for you calling and inquisition against me? If you think a page long post like this is somehow trolling, or as you stated early (like other posts at random on this board) belongs in the Serious Discussion board, then I'd appreciate if you stand back and let yourself cool off. Next step I'm expecting is for you to ask on this thread for it to be locked like every other thread I ever started.

If sincere curiousity based on a few recent findings is now a BAD thing on a board about Japan for those interested in learning, then the entire purpose of this forum has become very warped. I'm looking for thoughts on the subject, more sources of information, anything that anyone ELSE has run into on the "nihonjinron" of views on sex. Please stop attempting to turn this into something it is not by turning this into some sort of debate or adversarial argument.

Thank you.
 
here here emoni,

my feet are firmly planted in your camp.

as for research....
in this subject i have done plenty of research.....oh yea....

ive rattled off a few experiences....but was suprised that no-one had any comment on any of those 4 main things i noticed about japanese attitude towards sex and relationships.

and instead have managed to move what could be an interesting topic and thread (as yours often are)
into the rather dull world of motives and semantics....snooore....

i have already received one infraction from my posts on this thread...(really must get round to starting that one about freedom of speech, which was funny as it stank of hypocrocy)

so heres me bringing it back on tack...

SEX

lets talk about it.....
what makes japan and its view on sex unique...
and why?

it would be nice to hear from some japneese and from non japanese who have experience with japanese
 
I'm becoming exceedingly disappointed with the highly defensive and aggressive responses to what was simply a post discussing both videos along with personal commentary and sharing curiosity.
But, Emoni, you did not make it clear that you only wanted to discuss those videos. You wrote a very long first message and concluded in bold type with what most of us so far have perceived as your main point:
So, my question is this: Without getting too personal, what are your thoughts, experiences, stories, and views on the issue of sex in Japan and Japanese society?
Many/most responders here have tried to get you to pin down the focus of such a huge topic. You refuse. As a result, where has this "discussion" gone? Not anywhere specific, and you have not helped the matter.
The most obvious sense of "positive" is personally agreeing with the open and more prevalent aspects in the country in certain areas.
What would you say those are? Help us out here! Give an opinion or at least describe it so we know what to agree or disagree with. Otherwise, you look like an academic fishing (not trolling) for background information. In that light...
I've made it very clear that the conversations and experiences I have had are NOT accademic, even if my curiosity borders on such aims.
Well, then, why do you bring up the fact that you have had discussions with "researchers" (teachers and students of gender studies) if you are not prepared to bring up even the smallest point of the discussions you had? Nobody is saying you have to give out names of those people or their test subjects. Just tell us what issue you and they talked about. This statement:
Going into details about the specifics of private conversations I hesitate to do so not only for privacy reasons, but also because it was simply over years of time and to re-piece every comment would not be entirely productive.
is a cop-out. Why dangle the carrot in front of us if you aren't willing to let us eat or even sniff it?

And, how about comments you made like these:
Furthermore, I'm not saying Japan is profoundly unique or exclusive around the world in regards to sex.
Japanese views about sex do NOT seem the same as any country in the world at all.
Contradictory!

And, how about this comment of yours?
In fact, part of the point I wanted to stress while discussing the topic is that it is important not to take any generality and consider it as applicable to all in Japan or anywhere.
Ok, so this implies that you want only people's specific experiences, one-off responses to a multitude of possible sex issues in Japan (like your example of the stripper pole, which itself generated a false idea of what you meant when you brouht it up). To what end will these individual moments scattered here and there amount?

Next step I'm expecting is for you to ask on this thread for it to be locked like every other thread I ever started.
You know darned well why I asked for that on other threads. They started somewhere and went off in all directions aimlessly. This one has not even gone anywhere from the get-go because the focus is too broad. If you want to publicly berate me, I'd suggest moving your comments to a PM instead of cluttering your already weak thread.
I'm looking for thoughts on the subject, more sources of information, anything that anyone ELSE has run into on the "nihonjinron" of views on sex. Please stop attempting to turn this into something it is not by turning this into some sort of debate or adversarial argument.
You're going to get debate and adversarial arguments anyway, but you need to define what to talk about first. Want to stick with the 3 videos? That's focused enough for me, but I would like you to realize something here. My last few posts provided feedback on the videos, and that in itself should have been a launching pad for you or anyone to extend this "topic". Have you responded to those comments? Nope. Why is that? This is your thread, and I paid you the courtesy of watching the links you provided. Do me the courtesy of responding to my comments. Say something to let us know what you feel, ok?
 
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"The West sees the Japanese as emotionless, controlled, and even sexless".

Yes, let's stereotype "Westerners" with silly tripe!

I hate it when everything is so easily said as just Eastern and Western. Are other Asian countries really so similar when it comes to sex as Japan? Seems like Japan is the biggest porn producer in the world. And seems like the rest of Asia doesn't produce much at all.

One Southeastern Asian at another forum told me that sexual openness is a Western value and alien to the sexually conservative East.

lol, the search for truth about cultural difference.

I mostly blame Southeast Asia's sexual difference from Japan on Islam. And from the perspective of Abrahamic values like Christianity, Islam is a Western influence.

Haha, the hazyness of East vs. West.
The Northeast Asia think the difference between the West and East is lack of Christian(Abrahamic) morals in the East.
The West Asian Arab, Southeast and other Islamic Asian world, thinks the difference between East and West is that Westerners are more religiously relaxed and lacking in Abrahamic(Islamic) morals.

Har, the irony.
 
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kireikoori,
Nice point. And, one has to be careful about referring to "the west" because Americans' views on sex differ from those of other westerners (like Europeans). But we all look alike, don't we? :)
 
Glenski, I've already stated and answered the questions that I feel are important and relevant. If you want to nit-pick and cut apart and interrogate, when I'm simply trying to get information and thoughts on the subject, videos, or what was stated, go right ahead but I'm not going to oblige and drag the thread down anymore. Most of your reply is ignoring my request and further attacking and that is not even remotely what I posted for.

You can call me a cop-out or whatever at this point. I don't care to put any more effort into that. Informational or observation is what I am looking for (I.E. Kireikoori's post), not a critique of posting style, personal attacks, or the like.

End of that in my opinion.


On to the purpose of this thread.

Kireikoori, you made a good point by stating that there is a clear "western" stereotype in the portrayal in the BBC film as well. I also agree that sexual morals that may conflict could be connected to religious reasons as well. It is misdirected to believe generalities so broad can be considered realistic, but of course you have to generalize to some degree for the sake of observation and understanding of cultural tendencies. You simply have to remember that nothing is ever 100% consistent along those lines. That was probably the biggest problem I had with the BBC documentary, partly because it was short (but I think this is only part of a whole) is that it was not put in context.

Clearly there is a lot to be said for social observation about sexual practices and tendencies in Japan, business, personal life, and how they meld with the rush rush of Japan in the big cities. More so, I'm curious about the more rural areas as well.

Since I'm mostly basing this around the starting point of the documentaries (however flawed they are), I'm curious if anyone here has first hand experience with how sex is initially TAUGHT, school, by parents, and how the views are absorbed.
 
So, you choose to answer only the posts that you like? My posts 24 and 25 should have given you plenty of material, but did you respond? Nope.

Picky, Emoni. Far too picky.

Want firsthand experience of how sex is taught? Sorry. I don't think you'll find many sex teachers around. Sex ed, however. That's different. I saw one and only one sex ed "class" at the HS where I worked. Pretty lame stuff. 450 seniors crammed into a gym with the school nurse and a few teachers (on the side, of course), plus an outside person presenting a video (factual but not all-encompassing, and it barely elicited anything from the students). Were some students already practicing sex then? Yes. Would anyone feel comfortable asking questions in that situation? Hardly.

there is a clear "western" stereotype in the portrayal in the BBC film as well.
The BBC vid had an Asian narrator and a prominent Japanese sociologist giving views. Not Japanese-American. Japanese. The bondage "instructor" was Japanese. The host club was completely from a Japanese POV (lacking in many issues, but still all Japanese). The vid on the rape club had a Japanese providing most of the perspective. What western stereotype was portrayed?

I also agree that sexual morals that may conflict could be connected to religious reasons as well.
But not in most of Japan.

Japanese adolescent sex ed. (what you probably already knew from your gender studies students and researchers)
http://www.aegis.com/news/bbc/2004/BB040726.html
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,978575-1,00.html
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/7962.php
http://www.thebody.com/content/art25142.html
 
For further research I recommend :
"Das Geschlechtsleben des japanischen Volkes."
by Friedrich S. Krauss and Tamio Satow (1931, old story !):-)
 
but YES japanese girls are pretty damn easy....so it should not be hard to do some research for yourself...
(if that offends you then i'm sorry that the truth hurts)

for some reason alot of japanese people get so bloody offended SO easily...

Most Japanese people (why "japanese" without capital?) are offended because you make a blanket statement, not the truth.
If you say "japanese girls I've met/I've got to know are pretty damn easy",
it will be less offensive - and maybe more convincing. We have a saying
類は友を呼ぶ (Rui wa tomo wo yobu/Like attracts like)
 
theAlphaDuck said:
WELL THIS IS MY AREA OF EXPERTISE....

but it is an iceberg of a topic.

firstly all i say is from personal experience...taken from my adventures with countless Japanese Girls....i draw no judgement or conclutions...

AS A MAN OF THE WORLD....

I have probably had more girls from more countries than everyone else on this board put together...and i will tell you this.

NO 2 COUNTRIES ARE THE SAME!!!

JAP girls like it when you throw them doen on the bed and take them...
Pretty bold statement coming from someone whos profile says he's never been to Japan. (If that is not the case, then please update your profile to show the truth. Also it would help if you could spell.) I guess your "expertise" with a few Japanese tourists makes you an expert? I say this based on your profile.

Your comments, by the way, seem, I said "seem", to be on the mark, but they could've come from any book or documentary. I have much more "real" personal experience on this subject and will add to this post in time after the BS has been weeded out and after I see what other inaccuracies and stereotypes are from the so-called "experts."

I also find your inflammatory use of the word "Jap" offensive and inappropriate. Just by your non-chalant use of the word, and your insistance on using it in a later post, shows your immaturity and your lack of knowledge of history on the use of the word. To you, and your immature young "Japanese friends" (if that is really the truth), who, if true, are also ignorant, shows that it's becoming normal in today's society to use the word where the younger generation is brainwashed and has no concept of history. My generation of Japanese friends find it very offensive and equivelant to the "N" word in America and would NEVER tolerate it even today. But that just shows the generation gap where ignorance reigns supreme among the young.

How about if someone insisted on calling you and all people from the UK "gits" and "limeys" and slobs for not brushing your teeth? How long would it take before you would calling for an end to stereo-types and offensive language? Think about it before you go go calling for "free speech". Some speech is offensive and should not be used, especially on a forum like this one. Other forums may permit it to be used, but I doubt if intelligent people stay there long.

Remember, you have the freedom to not participate on this forum if you don't like the rules. There is much leeway given here, but there is a limit to what is tolerated and what is not tolerated. To date I have only found one instance where I disagreed concerning speech on this forum and that has been solved to my satisfaction, but it had nothing to do with hate speech which you seem to espouse.

theAlphaDuck, your comments are most welcome and encouraged, but please stay within the rules of this forum.
 
Want firsthand experience of how sex is taught? Sorry. I don't think you'll find many sex teachers around. Sex ed, however. That's different. I saw one and only one sex ed "class" at the HS where I worked. Pretty lame stuff. 450 seniors crammed into a gym with the school nurse and a few teachers (on the side, of course), plus an outside person presenting a video (factual but not all-encompassing, and it barely elicited anything from the students). Were some students already practicing sex then? Yes. Would anyone feel comfortable asking questions in that situation? Hardly.

The BBC vid had an Asian narrator and a prominent Japanese sociologist giving views. Not Japanese-American. Japanese. The bondage "instructor" was Japanese. The host club was completely from a Japanese POV (lacking in many issues, but still all Japanese). The vid on the rape club had a Japanese providing most of the perspective. What western stereotype was portrayed?

But not in most of Japan.

Japanese adolescent sex ed. (what you probably already knew from your gender studies students and researchers)
http://www.aegis.com/news/bbc/2004/BB040726.html
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,978575-1,00.html
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/7962.php
http://www.thebody.com/content/art25142.html

Thanks for the links. Japanese adolescent sex ed didn't come up too often, only a few statistics or so.

What I meant by the western stereotype was actually the tone of which the video was set, and the aim of the audience basing it off the initial preconception of what the west views the Japanese... and then following that with the material they showed.
 
Thanks for the links. Japanese adolescent sex ed didn't come up too often, only a few statistics or so.
So? I thought you wanted generalities and information to make comments on, based on my personal experience, not hard published data. I provided what you asked for, and now you are complaining and not even making constructive responses to extend your own thread?

What I meant by the western stereotype was actually the tone of which the video was set, and the aim of the audience basing it off the initial preconception of what the west views the Japanese... and then following that with the material they showed.
I didn't see any western tone in the latter two videos, and only partially in the BBC one. What else would you expect from the BBC video, though, even without seeing it in its entirety?

How would you have preferred the tone or portrayal to be if it were eastern?
 
Sigh... never mind I give up. What I had hoped to be a starting point for information gathering and communication has turned into aggressive nitpicking that seems to be missing the point. Maybe it was a bad presentation from the start.

I'll go elsewhere for information and conversation on this topic I think.

Oh well.
 
Let's see.

I try to focus a topic and get chastised for that as nitpicking.

I add comments about the OP's 3 videos (nobody else did all three, I think), and get practically zero response.

I write about my own personal experience, as requested by the OP, yet get zero response. Not one comment!

I even provide links to substantiate some of the previous point, yet get told it was just a "few statistics", even though there was far more to each link that should have stimulated discussion. It didn't.

I ask pertinent questions that get ignored.

Now the OP runs away to play in another sandbox and I'm the bad guy for missing the point?

Sigh... never mind.
 
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