Samurais

[korp]

That's why we have books.

Tony

Or your could ask friendly, nice people on a forum like this

 

[Emoni]

Or your could ask friendly, nice people on a forum like this

... that and basic history books or 5 seconds of wikipedia also work wonders for simple questions like this.

 

[bluepilot]

the title/class of samurai was abolished in 1871 with the fall of feudalism (did I spell that right?)

What a 'samurai' is has changed throughout Japanese history

However, when the position on 'samurai' was abolished, 'samurai' was a hereditary posistion in society and the duties performed were mainly beaurocratic (definatly did not spell that one right)

The posistion/title has never been revived since. Some Japanese people today may be decendants of this class but just before Meiji the samurai population was around 6-8% of the whole population so I don't imagine that they have any decendants.

Oh, the samurai class was abolished by samurai

As for the people who practice kendo, very few of us would call ourselves 'samurai' and those that do are very likely to be laughed at then recieve tsuki waza

'any' is meant to be 'many' of course

I have never claimed that I could type, spell or proof-read

 

[Ashikaga]

I've read somewhere that someone named Tom Cruise was the last samurai.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

If those appear in TV drama and video games count, then yes.
Otherwise, no.

No actually ninja's do exist (depending on how you define a ninja)- Masaaki Hatsumi is is the founder and current Soke, or Grandmaster, of the Bujinkan Organization, currently residing and teaching in the city of Noda, Chiba, Japan; he's essentially a ninja and has his own martial arts school and everything.

 

[dreamer]

Don't they call them Shinobi/Kunoichi ?
Anyway, don't expect to learn what you see in anime and other cartoons...

 

[Emoni]

No actually ninja's do exist (depending on how you define a ninja)- Masaaki Hatsumi is is the founder and current Soke, or Grandmaster, of the Bujinkan Organization, currently residing and teaching in the city of Noda, Chiba, Japan; he's essentially a ninja and has his own martial arts school and everything.

Let me guess, because him and his students say so right?

And yes, in the above sense of logic. Tom Cruise is the last samurai.

 

[bammbamm&pebbles]

Are there any samurai clans left in Japan ?

Yes,but they have gone through modern transformation though.Some samurai descendants wear 3 piece Western suits working in corporate Japan & held political offices.

 

[Emoni]

Yes,but they have through modern transformation though.Some samurai descendants wear 3 piece Western suits working in corporate Japan & held political office.

Very true... I feel shame for not remembering this blatantly obvious fact. Seppuku...

 

[bammbamm&pebbles]

1 example ...

Would be next Japanese Prime Minister Taro Aso,a great-great-grandson of Ōkubo Toshimichi was a Japanese statesman, a samurai of Satsuma, and one of the three great nobles who led the Meiji Restoration. He is regarded as one of the main founders of modern Japan.

Ōkubo Toshimichi - Wikipedia

 

[bluepilot]

kunoichi is a female ninja

the characters hirigana 'ku' katakana 'no' then kanji 'ichi' form the kanji for 'onna' which is where the name may have originated from

Just random trivi (good for Japanese night pub quizzes)

All I know about 'shinobi' is that it means 'spy' and is the title of some okayish games

 

[korp]

... that and basic history books or 5 seconds of wikipedia also work wonders for simple questions like this.

You appear to be a little provoked by people asking what you may consider stupid questions? For me it just shows that there is an interest and wanting to learn. I rather learn about topics from people that knows how it works practially in the correct context than from Wikipedia.

If you feel very frustrated by peoples questions with regards to this topic, you may consider not replaying and sharing your vast knowledge in a area where you feel more comfortable, both for your own and our well-being.

PS: no hurt intended

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Don't they call them Shinobi/Kunoichi ?
Anyway, don't expect to learn what you see in anime and other cartoons...

I didn't learn about it from a cartoon/anime numbnuts, i saw him in a documentary and i have learned more about him from many other sources...

Let me guess, because him and his students say so right?
And yes, in the above sense of logic. Tom Cruise is the last samurai.

Um, no.

I believe this guy exists because there is a great deal of history/writings and documentaries on him- he is even recognized by Japan as a living treasure.
Of course, this could all be some massive conspiracy "rolls eyes".

Dr. Masaaki Hatsumi (Ph.D) (1931-) is soke and founder of Bujinkan. He is also soke of the nine ryu Bujinkan is based on, titles he was given by his teacher, Takamatsu Toshitsugu.

* 34th soke of Togakure Ryu Ninpo Happo Hiken
* 28th soke of Gyokko Ryu Kosshijutsu Happo Hiken
* 18th soke of Koto Ryu Koppojutsu Happo Hiken
* 26th soke of Shinden Fudo Ryu Ninpo Happo Hiken
* 28th soke of Kukishin Ryu Taijutsu Happo Hiken
* 17th soke of Takagiyoshin Ryu Jutaijutsu Happo Hiken
* 14th soke of Kumogakure Ryu Ninpo Happo Hiken
* 21th soke of Gyokushin Ryu Ninpo Happo Hiken
* 15th soke of Gikan Ryu Koppojutsu Happo Hiken

Hatsumi is regarded as a "national living treasure" by the Japanese athorities due to his extensive and probably unmatched knowledge in the history of Japanese martial arts.

Hatsumi started by training in Okinawan Karate and Judo, and became an expert in Judo during the 50s. At that time, he trained US soldiers at a military base in Japan, and after realizing that even a Judo master can be defeated if the attacker is strong enough and using tricks, he started searching for something better. He found it in Takamatsu Toshitsugu, who became his teacher.

It's important to note that Haatsumi-sensei refers to his art as Taijutsu these days and has strayed from calling his art ninjutsu or ninpo. I've heard a variety of reasons for this, but the one I'm most apt to believe revolves around the negative stereotypes of the ninja, often thought of as an assassin or terrorist. Haatsumi sensei's open relationship with the west, and this book which was one of his earliest attempts, has attempted to dispel many of these incorrect assumptions and stereotypes (although ninja did perform assassinations on occasion, it was far from their primary function) but many of them linger. Taijutsu is a simpler term that simply means martial body skills. It incorporates and includes the ninpo arts, but it also envelopes them into a much larger group.

More info on Hatsumi;

WEBSITE.WS - Your Internet Address For Life™

http://www.usadojo.com/biographies/masaaki-hatsumi.htm

Dr. Masaaki Hatsumi

http://www.hatsumi.gr/

http://www.tacticalselfdefense.com/Bujinkan/hatsumi.htm

etc.

(He has also written many books too, like "Advanced Stick Fighting", "Unarmed Fighting Techniques of the Samurai", "Essence of Ninjutsu: The Nine Traditions", "Ninjutsu: History and Tradition", "The Way of the Ninja: Secret Techniques", " Stick Fighting: Techniques of Self-Defense", " Knife and Pistol Fighting", "Ninpo: Wisdom for Life", " Ninja: The True Story of Japan's Secret Warrior Cult" and many more etc).

In addition to his background as a martial artist and doctor, Dr. Masaaki Hatsumi is a highly respected writer, actor, and artist. Dr. Hatsumi is an accomplished artist of brush and ink in the Nihonga style. His art work has been exhibited at the Nagai Gallery of Tokyo and in Paris, France.

I guess though you probably all think this is some conspiracy (probably like "geisha" lol) though "rolls eyes"?
IMHO, Don't be so quick to tread on others opinions when you don't even know what you're talking about (at least it sounds that way with the way you ninja conspiracy lot are going on).

 

[hanachan]

The bravest are the tenderest, the loving are the daring.

Samurai was, is still alive... in Japanese heart.
Intellectual and moral Japan is based on Samurai spirits called "Bushido".

I recommend a book "Bushido" written by Inazo Nitobe.
http://chiri.let.hokudai.ac.jp/~you/nitobe/data/bushido.htm

 

[Emoni]

You appear to be a little provoked by people asking what you may consider stupid questions? For me it just shows that there is an interest and wanting to learn. I rather learn about topics from people that knows how it works practially in the correct context than from Wikipedia.
If you feel very frustrated by peoples questions with regards to this topic, you may consider not replaying and sharing your vast knowledge in a area where you feel more comfortable, both for your own and our well-being.
PS: no hurt intended

No problem with questions and such, but when someone asks a question like this that seems to be pulled out of the wind without ANY sign of prior effort to even slightly check up on the subject themselves, I don't hesitate to point out the absurdity. I might as well start posting questions like "How many shogun's rule Japan now?" Feel free to answer that for me. If you want to know the answer to that simple question then let me tell you it is 53.

Don't believe me? Ahh, why not? Have you done a small bit of research yourself maybe before reading this forum and seeing questions like that?

No hurt intended, none taken. I'm not too sensitive, just a bit puyo puyo.

As for Mr. Ninja, there is a fine line between stating "Ninjaz exists!" and then shooting off on a tirade about someone who is a martial artist.

-First, this thread isn't about Ninja!

-Second, historical REAL ninja do NOT exist today. From the most I have seen there are a few people who study martial arts similar to the techniques that they MIGHT have studied then, but even the person you mentioned makes a clear distinction between his martial arts and "Ninja fight'n!" and combined numerous styles into his own.

-Third, show me an account of a real life modern ninja and I'll show you why they aren't around anymore or will quickly be imprisoned for hired murder.

Ninja were assassins. If you want to say this man is a ninja then he should be investigated for possible links to assassination attempts. Your "real ninja" do not exist anymore, they were overblown even then, considering the historical references being minimal while the legends frequent, and they are overblown today too. To say ninja still exist is as absurd as saying samurai walk the street.

Ninja do not exist anymore, and he is not a "real ninja.: A martial artist, one I've never heard of, but still a martial artist. Be freaking difference.

By the way hanachan, reading the practices of "samurai" and historical accounts in most history books that aren't devoted to glorifying Samurai, you'll notice that there is some truth to the statement by a professor of mine, "Honor codes and warrior culture isn't created in wartime, it is created during peacetime."

I guess though you probably all think this is some conspiracy (probably like "geisha" lol) though "rolls eyes"?

Just so you know, unlike ninja, geisha still do exist today.

I'm done with the unrelated topics above.

Now to directly answer the posters question: Of course there are not samurai around in Japan still today. Kendo is mostly a sport/martial art, it isn't a warrior code of laws to serve a war clan in anyway today. I highly recommend that if you have further questions about such a subject that you ground yourself in basic history or an understanding of Japan that can be as easily found as wikipedia or your local library or book store.

 

[hanachan]

By the way hanachan, reading the practices of "samurai" and historical accounts in most history books that aren't devoted to glorifying Samurai, you'll notice that there is some truth to the statement by a professor of mine, "Honor codes and warrior culture isn't created in wartime, it is created during peacetime."

Yes, I know.
Bushido had been matured during Tokugawa era. those 300 years it was peacetime in Japan, you know.

 

[Hiroyuki Nagashima]

Samurai was, is still alive... in Japanese heart.
Intellectual and moral Japan is based on Samurai spirits called "Bushido".

Irresponsible resignation of Prime Minister Fukuda,
Cannabis incident of sumo world,
Bribe incident of the Ooita Board of Education,
I think that the Bushido already became extinct.


Evaluation of Masaaki Hatsumi is low in Japan.
Because it is doubtful.

 

[hanachan]

Irresponsible resignation of Prime Minister Fukuda,
Cannabis incident of sumo world,
Bribe incident of the Ooita Board of Education,
I think that the Bushido already became extinct.

Indeed...
It's deplorable. 窶儔窶堋ｩ窶堙ｭ窶堋ｵ窶堋｢ﾂ！

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

As for Mr. Ninja, there is a fine line between stating "Ninjaz exists!" and then shooting off on a tirade about someone who is a martial artist.

Yes but i didn't do either of those things (i wouldn't hardly call sharing information about a particular person a tirade, and yes he is a ninja by definition).

-First, this thread isn't about Ninja!

Of course not, but the ninja discussion is related to it in numerous senses.

-Second, historical REAL ninja do NOT exist today. From the most I have seen there are a few people who study martial arts similar to the techniques that they MIGHT have studied then, but even the person you mentioned makes a clear distinction between his martial arts and "Ninja fight'n!" and combined numerous styles into his own.
-Third, show me an account of a real life modern ninja and I'll show you why they aren't around anymore or will quickly be imprisoned for hired murder.
Ninja were assassins. If you want to say this man is a ninja then he should be investigated for possible links to assassination attempts. Your "real ninja" do not exist anymore, they were overblown even then, considering the historical references being minimal while the legends frequent, and they are overblown today too. To say ninja still exist is as absurd as saying samurai walk the street.
Ninja do not exist anymore, and he is not a "real ninja.: A martial artist, one I've never heard of, but still a martial artist. Be freaking difference.

Just so you know, unlike ninja, geisha still do exist today.
I'm done with the unrelated topics above.
Now to directly answer the posters question: Of course there are not samurai around in Japan still today. Kendo is mostly a sport/martial art, it isn't a warrior code of laws to serve a war clan in anyway today. I highly recommend that if you have further questions about such a subject that you ground yourself in basic history or an understanding of Japan that can be as easily found as wikipedia or your local library or book store.

Your definition of a ninja is wrong is this is where you have gone so fundamentally wrong in this- a ninja by definition is not an assassin. A ninja by definition is an elite warrior, highly trained in all aspects of combat martial arts, and specializing in a variety of unorthodox arts of war, an expert in covert operations, skilled fighters etc.
Yes its true there is record of them being hired for assassin, but this was not their only or primary function.
If a ninja is by definition an assassin, then conversely an assassin is by definition a ninja. Which is of course not the case (despite you essentially arguing that it is).


Anyways, lets test your ninja geisha logic here (BTW in case you hadn't noticed i was being extremely sarcastic (note the spelled out expression "rolls eyes") about the geisha conspiracy thing to make a point, but anyways...);

a. You disbelieve that ninja exist because they are assassins and that if they showed their faces and admitted they were ninja they would be immediately arrested for assassination attempt/s (because by your definition a ninja is an assassin, and to be an assassin you need to attempt to assassinate someone, and if you haven't done this you are not a "real" ninja, yes?)? You believe that assassination was an important part of the ninja way of life and that you had to kill someone before you called yourself a ninja yes?

b. But in the olden days geisha used to sell their virginity (the practice was called "Mizuage") and also sleep with their patron (this wasn't a written rule, but was pretty much a guaranteed and done thing back then- plenty of ancient geisha like Teruha have attested to this). Since the anti prostitution act set about in the 50's in Japan though, the selling of virginity (a major event in a maiko's life, it was the turning point in which she became a geisha) and more was banned and the practice stopped amongst geisha.

By your logic then, since the geisha today do not completely follow the lifestyle of the geisha of old, the geisha living today are merely geisha imitators, just like any people claiming to be ninja are not real ninja (simply because they do not assassinate people, even though the art of assassination is still taught)?
IMHO its ridiculous as arguing that someone is not a real soldier if they haven't been to war.


There are plenty of moves that are taught in martial arts that are not properly taught because if the instructor was to do the move wholeheartedly (i.e. for real) then he/she would kill or seriously injure the person he/she is demonstrating on. Assassination skills/moves are still taught to those studying Ninjutsu, however of course such things are also not taught wholeheartedly otherwise someone would have to be assassinated for this to be the case.
You are essentially arguing that a ninja can't be a ninja if they haven't killed someone, which is just as incorrect as saying that a judo master can't be a judo master if he hasn't done all of his moves for real.

Also btw, you have consistently winged throughout this debate (everything from complaining the person who started the thread did just that, to people disagreeing with you etc)- if you can't really handle these things i think you should take some time off going on forums.
Also, if i were you i would not be telling others to read up more on basic Japanese history/culture, when you were the very same person who "jokes" about Japanese women being attractive because of the results of long term prostitution and ugly baby culling.
If you have read anything decent about ninja then you would not be defining them merely as assassins.

 

[Emoni]

a ninja by definition is not an assassin. A ninja by definition is an elite warrior, highly trained in all aspects of combat martial arts, and specializing in a variety of unorthodox arts of war, an expert in covert operations, skilled fighters etc.

When you plagiarize from wikipedia, then you lose my attention and respect.

"In Japanese history, a ninja (窶戲ﾅｽﾃ? ninja?) is an elite warrior, highly trained in all aspects of combat martial arts, and specializing in a variety of unorthodox arts of war. The methods used by ninja included assassination, espionage, stealth, camouflage, unconventional warfare, specialized weapons, and a vast array of martial arts."

Ninja - Wikipedia

Not only is this unrelated but I simply can't take this seriously. While I consider wikipedia a starting point, I don't consider it by any means cite-worthy/plagiarize-worthy. History of samurai clans, fine. Making a point that ninja exist today by plagiarizing a quote from it? Uh... no, there is a reason it is a resource, but not an accademic resource.

if you can't really handle these things i think you should take some time off going on forums.
Also, if i were you i would not be telling others to read up more on basic Japanese history/culture, when you were the very same person who "jokes" about Japanese women being attractive because of the results of long term prostitution and ugly baby culling.

Personal attacks = lame
Japanese women culling babies to breed a super race = awesome
Far too many people being frighteningly gullible here recently = priceless

This is getting no where, and isn't even related from the start. I should have just ignored it, but I'm fickle like that. I guess I'll start from now.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

When you plagiarize from wikipedia, then you lose my attention and respect.
"In Japanese history, a ninja (窶戲ﾅｽﾃ? ninja?) is an elite warrior, highly trained in all aspects of combat martial arts, and specializing in a variety of unorthodox arts of war. The methods used by ninja included assassination, espionage, stealth, camouflage, unconventional warfare, specialized weapons, and a vast array of martial arts."
Ninja - Wikipedia
Not only is this unrelated but I simply can't take this seriously. While I consider wikipedia a starting point, I don't consider it by any means cite-worthy/plagiarize-worthy. History of samurai clans, fine. Making a point that ninja exist today by plagiarizing a quote from it? Uh... no, there is a reason it is a resource, but not an accademic resource.

I merely copied that part from wiki because i didn't have much time and the part i copied summed up part of my point well. Also its really rich that you talk down wiki when people use it, when it was you who first advised people to use it in this thread, i quote;

... that and basic history books or 5 seconds of wikipedia also work wonders for simple questions like this.

and;

"I highly recommend that if you have further questions about such a subject that you ground yourself in basic history or an understanding of Japan that can be as easily found as wikipedia or your local library or book store."

Secondly you make out that i'm using wiki as my primary information source, when in fact i have largely used 6 other wiki-unrelated sources for my info/points as well as looking into numerous books on the subject (of which titles i have mentioned).

Why on earth should i take you seriously when you haven't visibly used a single source for your information? If you dispute what i am saying then why don't you come up with some goods to actually show that your views aren't merely foundless opinions? Your reasoning so far for believing ninja's do no exist goes along the lines of "Ninja's are assassins and so can't possibly show their faces in public otherwise they would be arrested", which is ridiculous logic in many senses- you haven't bothered to defend a single one of the flaws which i pointed out in your logic, which leads me to believe that you would rather live in ignorance on this subject than try and test your own beliefs.

Personal attacks = lame
Japanese women culling babies to breed a super race = awesome
Far too many people being frighteningly gullible here recently = priceless
This is getting no where, and isn't even related from the start. I should have just ignored it, but I'm fickle like that. I guess I'll start from now.

Personal attack? Hardly. If you consider that a personal attack then your accusation that i am basically ignorant in Japanese history/culture should be considered one using your logic, and which thus makes you a hypocrite now.
Also if you have any respect for Japanese culture and the numerous people here which have a decent respect for other cultures and if you have any decent degree of social understanding, then it doesn't take much to realize that saying stuff like Japanese women are attractive as a result of long term prostitution and ugly baby culling isn't awesome but is actually rather highly offensive to the majority of people. The offended people you then create are not exactly going to think of you more highly because they didn't see the humor in your "joke" which went on for a page or so before you finally stated you were "joking". Correct me if i am wrong, but a joke is supposed to be acted out in a way that makes it obvious that it is joke and is intended to be funny- you didn't seriously think that people were going to be amused at such "jokes" like yours"? If so i think you need to think a lot more before you type, or perhaps you should give trying to be humorous a miss altogether in the future if you want to survive on this forum in the long term...

ps: And btw, i don't really care if you don't want to post on this thread anymore, if you leave then all you leave in this thread IMHO is a load of flawed and undefended opinions (if you disagree with this then hang around and debate etc), which is no concern of mine. I will refrain form posting as and when i choose to (unless of course a mod steps in and tells me to stop, i will respect that).

 

[Amathev]

No actually ninja's do exist (depending on how you define a ninja)- Masaaki Hatsumi is is the founder and current Soke, or Grandmaster, of the Bujinkan Organization, currently residing and teaching in the city of Noda, Chiba, Japan; he's essentially a ninja and has his own martial arts school and everything.

Just because some Scandinavians like to call themselves Vikings, it doesn't mean there are Vikings today.

 

[AJBryant]

Just because some Scandinavians like to call themselves Vikings, it doesn't mean there are Vikings today.

Bravo!                


Tony

 

[kusojiji]

Some Japanese people today may be decendants of this class but just before Meiji the samurai population was around 6-8% of the whole population so I don't imagine that they have any decendants.

Actually, by now they would have loads and loads of decendants.

 

[caster51]

Some Japanese people today may be decendants of this class but just before Meiji the samurai population was around 6-8% of the whole population so I don't imagine that they have any decendants.

Ryoma sakamoto was a ronin.
there were many ronin at that time
Rōnin - Wikipedia

kondo and hijikata