Question time...

[The7thSamurai]

...courtesy of my text. お願い致します！

First, just a simple particle question from this sentence:

その人は包丁片手にキュウリの皮をむいている。

Why is the particle に used here? Shouldn't で be used to indicated the way the cucumber is being peeled?

Next question is about one of the uses of もの which always gives me a headache.

(After discussing the correct way of cooking something)...結局「こんな小さなことでもいろいろ違うものね」で、この騒ぎは終わった。

They also have us use this particular type of もの in the exercises, but I can't understand the purpose of it, thus can't even do the exercises! I don't think it's the 当たり前 もの (e.g. 食事のときは、みんなで楽しく話をするものです) as they have a different section in this chapter for that one. Question 1 is...「へえ、三ヶ月でずいぶん＿＿＿ものですね」. What would fit there?

That's all for now. Cheers in advance.

(Sorry I have't been posting much lately too, no Internet at home)

 

[Elizabeth]

...courtesy of my text. お願い致します！

First, just a simple particle question from this sentence:

その人は包丁片手にキュウリの皮をむいている。

Why is the particle に used here? Shouldn't で be used to indicated the way the cucumber is being peeled?

Like what, 'knife with one hand peeling the cucumber??"

片手に normally takes a direct object and means "in one hand." I think it doesn't necessarily have to be "with" to make sense...


I really love the word mono, too, but sorry not even time for that now...

 

[undrentide]

Hi Bucko san,

包丁片手に is what Elizabeth san explained, maybe it is easier to understand if we add 持って?
包丁（を）片手に（持って）

As for the 2nd question, I think you can put almost any verb that can describe the happenings (?) during three months and whose result you'd observe with amazement.

e.g.
へえ、三ヶ月でずいぶん…
変わるものですね
育つものですね
違うものですね
進むものですね
覚えられるものですね
話せるようになるものですね

just for some example...

 

[The7thSamurai]

Thanks for your replies.

I still don't understand the function of もの in the sentences:
結局「こんな小さなことでもいろいろ違うものね」で、この騒ぎは終わった。 and (using one of undrentide's examples) へえ、三ヶ月でずいぶん変わるものですね

Hmm...

 

[Elizabeth]

Thanks for your replies.

I still don't understand the function of もの in the sentences:
結局「こんな小さなことでもいろいろ違うものね」で、この騒ぎは終わった。 and (using one of undrentide's examples) へえ、三ヶ月でずいぶん変わるものですね

Hmm...

「もの」は たまに自分の感情や見たことについて「変わるものですね,
育つものですね, 違うものですね 」という表現を使うことがあります。

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

Thanks for your replies.

I still don't understand the function of もの in the sentences:
結局「こんな小さなことでもいろいろ違うものね」で、 この騒ぎは終わった。 and (using one of undrentide's examples) へえ、三ヶ月でずいぶん変わるものですね

Hmm...

Here's what 広辞苑 has to say about it.

（形式名詞）
①そうあって当然のこと。徒然草「あまりに興あらんと する事は、必ずあいなき～なり」。「親に従う～だ」「悲しい時は泣くもの」
②感嘆の意。万一五「ほととぎす物思ふ時に鳴くべき～ か」。「ばかなことをした～だ」
③（終助詞的に）少し感情をこめて理由をのべる。「行 きたいんだ～」

 

[Elizabeth]

（終助詞的に）少し感情をこめて理由をのべる。「行き たいんだ～」

Also to evade responsibility and make excuses for yourself, not only as a valid reason. Although that's lies mostly with women's usage I think...

 

[The7thSamurai]

Ahh, so this is that annoying emotive もの that I've heard about. My grammar book has a section on it but the definitions are kind of vague. When would you know to use this one in your own daily conversation though? Also, can you break it down into a noun that is modified by the rest of the sentence, i.e. "これはずいぶん変わるものだ"..."as for これ, it is もの that is ずいぶん変わる", i.e. これ = もの. Hope this doesn't confuse anyone!

 

[Elizabeth]

Ahh, so this is that annoying emotive もの that I've heard about.

日本語を批判して何か意味があるのでしょうか？ Annoying ??? ええ ??? 何に対しての表現なんでしょう。。???

Also, can you break it down into a noun that is modified by the rest of the sentence, i.e. "これはずいぶん変わるものだ"..."as for これ, it is もの that is ずいぶん変わる", i.e. これ = もの. Hope this doesn't confuse anyone!

Doesn't that apply more when it is used to mean a physical object or "thing," in the same way you would see こと ? (「物」は物質)

これは私が欲しいと思った物です。

 

[The7thSamurai]

日本語を批判して何か意味があるのでしょうか？ Annoying ??? ええ ??? 何に対しての表現なんでしょう。。???

Annoying in that I'm not smart enough to get my head around it!

 

[FrustratedDave]

Annoying in that I'm not smart enough to get my head around it!

随分変わったものですね。
随分変わりましたね。

Ok take this for an example, on the surface you are basically saying the same thing. Dig a little deeper and you get a sense that using "mono" gives just a little difference in the nuance of that something that has changed. The use of "mono" will become more clear as you listen and experience more Japanese. Sorry I could not be of more help.

 

[Elizabeth]

Annoying in that I'm not smart enough to get my head around it!

These are a few common categories of もの as a sentence ending particle as explained by one of my texts. It is an expression capable of expressing different types of emotions including desire, reminiscence, excuse, admonition, command, conviction or exclamation and is used to help relate an abstract event or situation in vivid, concrete imagery.


1. Plain past form of the verb + ものだ is used when the speaker is reminiscing about the way things used to be.

学生のとき、毎日のように、パチンコをやったものだ。


２. At other times, もの seems to add nothing more than emotional intensity to the statement.

私もその山に登ってみたいものだ


３．This construction is also used in making generalizations, particularly when the speaker is expressing a strong impression or conviction.

友達はいいものだ。


4. ものだ is also used to express what one must or should do. The negative form ものではない expresses what one should not do. In more formal speech もの can be replaced with べき（べからず）

大人だったら、そんなことをいうものではない。


5. At times, ものだ functions like から (because). The difference is that the former is used when the speaker is trying to make an excuse or trying to justify an action or opinion. ものだ、から are sometimes used together.

仕方がないでしょう。バスがなかなか来なかったんだもの。。。


６．The construction ものだ is a protest against undesirable conditions or against what the speaker feels to be unreasonable expections...not very polite...use with caution...etc etc.

Sorry I'm running short on time but in brief it's very close to the rude English expression "Do you expect me to....?"